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scottanlily · 08-24-2006, 11:57 PM

hello everyone ,

the post on the tow rating of the suburban was merely a point I made ,not
using the actual numbers,because the tow ratings of much smaller suvs are
seemingly climbing up all the time ,and approach ratings of larger vehicals,
hence the question asked ,how is that possible.I have looked at the frontier
and the titan ,that frontier is a small pickup period.The titan is much better
for towing a larger trailer .Still not as big as a full size chevy ,ford or dodge.
But very capable of doing the job.As for the suburban ,the 1/2 ton is not
any car ,it has a full ladder frame and suspension bigger brakes than any car
does .the 3/4 ton is a tougher truck also ,heavier frame ,8 lug wheels as noted ,same engine as the 1/2 ton ,better trans 4L80 E instead of the 4L60E
for the 1/2 ton .the expedition however is more designed carlike ,but has a full frame but rear airbags and smaller brakes ,especially the front ,too small
for the size of that vehical and the weight.The design was for a different
market ,not trailer towing .The 1/2 ton sub with 4:10 gear 5.3 is plenty.
the key is the rear axle ratio.Get the lower ratio always if you plan to tow.
I will say I don't know about towing almost 7000# with a 4.8 tahoe with 3:73
gears ,thats a strech ,you all know that if you have towed a large trailer.
the heavy duty HD will be better for any 28 on up trailer no arguement .
Classifying the 1/2 tons for EPA merely allows those vehicals to pass on the
stingent EPA mileage requirements and the 2500 and up trucks never will
qualify for anyEPA fuel mileage requirement so they don't post any.Advertising them as cars really is a way to get under the EPA radar ,thats whats going
on there.Manafactures have to meet certain EPA requirements ,if they can get a suburban or durango classified under the EPA standards for a car ,they
can show that those vehicals meet said standards .It is all about the EPA
fuel mileage protocals that manafactures must adhere to .Lastly ,the durango
had a 9000# tow rating with the hemi engine ,thats a lot of weight to tow
and to stop .I do believe tow ratings in fact are over rated ,such as the toureg was allegelly capable of a high tow rating ,and could pull a big airstream ,truth was ,a big lie VW had to back peddle somthing fierce on that
debacle ,A well documented example of a manafacturer trying to claim its
suv could tow somthing it could not.

Scott

Frank S · 08-25-2006, 09:43 AM

Hi scottanlily--My towing experience with a 27' Overlander and 1/2 ton Suburbans is exactly the same as you outline above. Some of the smaller lighter "trucks" with high horsepower ratings should not be considered for towing over 5000 lbs, as they are lacking in other factors, besides HP, that need to be considered, such as: tire, spring, brake, and transmission capability; frame and rear axle strength; wheel base and weight, to keep the tail from wagging the dog.--Frank S

BillTex · 08-25-2006, 09:47 AM

You may want to view this other current thread discussing the merits of 3/4 ton TV's;

http://www.airforums.com/forum...-tv-25520.html

Condoluminum · 08-25-2006, 09:48 AM

Now that boats off the topic, I wanted to reply to BillTex's coments about mid and full size tow vehicles... We don't disagree about tow capacity and handling, but apparently have different opinions about mid and full zize....

When I referred to over-rated "mid-sized" vehicles, I was considering Dodge Durange / Jeep Grand Cherokee / Ford Explorer /Chevy Blazer types.. Full Size in my mind includes Tahoe/Yukon or Ford Expedition or any other SUV based on half ton truck running gear. Suburbans and Excursions are Full Size Plus tow vehicles, and 3/4 ton models are Heavy Duty Full Size units... As in life, bigger is better, but pulling a 25' trailer with a half ton is safe and sane, pulling with a mid-size may meet max tow number in brochure, but entails higher risks.. Whenever trailer weighs more than tow vehicle there is potential for excitement in emergencies... And everyone should remember the weight rating for towing usually includes fuel plus passengers plus luggage plus "Stuff" tossed in rear of tow vehicle, in adition to weight of trailer and hitch and fluids and stuff in trailer....

John McG

BillTex · 08-25-2006, 11:10 AM

[There was a time, though I admit you don't see this definition much since the Excursion has gone away and only the Suby remains, that SUV's were categorized as follows;

Cute Ute= Rav, Huyandai, Wrangler
Small SUV= Explorer, Cherokee, Blazer
Mid size SUV= Tahoe, Expedition
Full size SUV= Suburban, Excursion

Never heard the term "Full sized Plus" (except when talking about clothing sizes!). I know it is a matter of semantics, but as I said earlier, I work for a Tier supplier to the automotive industry, have written several papers for Ford, so I do have a little knowledge of the jargon used in the industry.

In summary, to the original topic, it has been my personal experience, that when you get over 6000#, you will be much better off with a 3/4 ton vehicle.Some of that is personal preference, some a matter of safety (and legality).

totalstream · 09-24-2006, 02:52 PM

Not full size?? You need to get you facts right. The Titan is longer and wider than an F150 and 1500 Series GM including the Crew Cab in both Ford and GM. The Armada is longer then the Expedition and Tahoe (Including this year) and as wide as a ¾ ton Burb. I think you need to do some research; the Titan is a Full Size truck. It has more HP and torque than all the trucks you refrence including the ½ ton Burb.

It is funny to see people comment on the Titan when they have no idea what the specs on the Titan/Armada are.

Dan G. Wrote:

"FYI:
F 250: Triton. V10 (30-valve) - 362HP@4750RPM and 457lb-ft of torque@3250RPM

Armada/Titan Endurance V8 305+ HP @approx. 4,900 rpm 375lb-ft of torque at 3200”

Show me the specs on the F150 and 1500??? Crawl under one some day and take a look, they are both massively built for the class they are in. Thats why they carry a 10k tow rating.

scottanlily · 09-24-2006, 03:41 PM

Hello totalstream ,
I find it a funny thing that folks get upset as you have with me on my post.
Your titan is a good truck ,no dispute there ,never said it couldn't tow a good
size trailer as i did post. Furthermore ,my post was almost entirely about the
burb and EPA clasifications and such .A small sentence about the titan ,and
sorry if I got the size wrong ,The fullsize gm truck with the 8.1 v8 or the duramax diesel or the ford f250 powerstroke ,and the dodge fullsize cummins turbo diesel all have way more power than the titan hands down .the info
by Dan G shows the v-10 has more power and torque than the titan /armada
does it really matter though ? I agree that the titan is about the same size as a standard f150 or dodge 1500 pickup ,or gm .My post also dealt with the
tow ratings mostley ,and I do in fact have abit of knowledge on what I post.
I don't just believe anything I read about how many tons of weight a truck can tow .Lastley ,you could have just said ,Hey Scott ,you know the titan is about the same size as a ford or gm etc ,instead of running me down on it.

Scott

klattu · 09-24-2006, 03:57 PM

Remember a VW could pull your AS...
It the stopping that is really important.

A bumper pull PU is the worst thing to stop with.
It is a habit that is not going to change, but is still a jack knife waiting to happen.
Load levers help, but you still have that light rear end.
Thats why you see so many Subs pulling...balance and weight over those rear wheels.
I never recomend pulling with anything under a 3/4 ton.
It has the breaks.

CanoeStream · 09-24-2006, 06:47 PM

I was probably the original Titan owner in AS Forums (December '03). Because I have a newer, heavier Airstream I now pull with a 3/4 ton GMC Allison-Duramax. This gives me ability to handle mountains without question, pull long distances at better fuel consumption, and not have to drop out of overdrive to avoid transmission searching -- all big hits against my beloved Titan. (yes, I really liked it!)

The Titan worked just fine for my Argosy and the engine & transmission actually did very well pulling my '06 25' Safari -- but with gearing that really sacrificed any fuel economy. I could almost get 11mpg if I stayed below 60mph.The breaking point was that real life tongue weights of close to 1000# for my 25' Safari meant that I just about couldn't put anything else in or on my truck. Why? It has less to do with torque and tow capacity which is where this discussion has been going.

The main point of my post is that you must also pay attention to manufacturer specs on payload or load capacity. That is where the Titan comes up pretty thin. Depending on trim level the 4WD king cab has 1420# to 1259# of payload; the lower trim levels don't have a hitch receiver and the higher trim levels have extra weight of bed liner and anchoring rails. Numbers for the 4WD Titan club cab are 1349# to 1198 pounds of payload. (Source: http://www.nissanusa.com/titan/specifications.html )

The payload for Ford 1/2-ton trucks are significantly higher. At http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/f...res/specs/#dim similar models have payload capacity of 1500, 1600, 1700 pounds or more.

Responsibly we should look at tongue weight, driver & passenger weight, truck accessories (topper? tonneau cover?), and truck cargo -- add them all up and they should not exceed the listed payload capacity. Consequences of exceeding that are durability of the vehicle, safety, emergency avoidance, braking performance -- and that is even before you consider there is a trailer behind pushing you around.

I sure towed my '06 Safari with the Titan -- but with the bed absolutely empty because I only had about 400# capacity beyond the tongue weight. I don't wish to travel the broad country under those restrictions. I took the hit and sold my Titan in January. I'm happy and looking forward. I would say a majority of hits you'd get on searching Forums about Titan or Armada will include posts on my experience. The television advertisements sound awesome -- reality just needs a bit more explanation.

totalstream · 09-24-2006, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottanlily

Hello totalstream ,
I find it a funny thing that folks get upset as you have with me on my post.
Your titan is a good truck ,no dispute there ,never said it couldn't tow a good
size trailer as i did post. Furthermore ,my post was almost entirely about the
burb and EPA clasifications and such .A small sentence about the titan ,and
sorry if I got the size wrong ,The fullsize gm truck with the 8.1 v8 or the duramax diesel or the ford f250 powerstroke ,and the dodge fullsize cummins turbo diesel all have way more power than the titan hands down .the info
by Dan G shows the v-10 has more power and torque than the titan /armada
does it really matter though ? I agree that the titan is about the same size as a standard f150 or dodge 1500 pickup ,or gm .My post also dealt with the
tow ratings mostley ,and I do in fact have abit of knowledge on what I post.
I don't just believe anything I read about how many tons of weight a truck can tow .Lastley ,you could have just said ,Hey Scott ,you know the titan is about the same size as a ford or gm etc ,instead of running me down on it.

Scott

Not a war, or aimed at you, just the facts. I own a couple trucks but no Titan. My F250 is a much more robust truck for hauling/towing than a Titan but it is also a ¾ ton truck. I’m just saying when you compare apples to apples in the same class the Titan in my opinion looks very strong. I have a few friends that own them and they are (IMO) a much better truck in strength and fit and finish vs. all the big three ½ tons.

All I did was correct your statement that the Titan was not full size. Not an attack on you personally. Sorry you see it that way

FYI: The numbers Dan G. posted were an F250 compared to a Titan/Armada. I should hope they were greater. My point in posting that was to show how close the Titan is vs. the V10 found in the F250. I don’t own a Japanese truck but if the Titan comes out with a ¾ ton diesel I will certainly take a good look. If I were to buy a ½ ton today it most likely would be the Nissan.

john hd · 09-25-2006, 05:56 AM

this looks like this has been quite a lively discussion.

i'm gonna throw my 2 cents in for whatever it is worth. i have towed my 29 with chevy half tons for years, until i got my current truck a '00 2500HD silverado. 6.0 gas 4L80E trans 4.10 gears.

i have had it for just 6 years now and do not see any need to change anytime soon. with out a doubt the best rig i have ever used for towing. other than a few warrenty issues it has been flawless.

the difference between it and my former half tons is day and night.

here is the list since i have owned my trailer.

'88 silverado 1500 4x4 350 3.42 gears
'92 suburban 1500 4x4 350 3.73 gears
'96 silverado 1500 4x4 350 3.73 gears
'98 silverado ex cab 4x4 6.5 turbo diesel 3.73 gears (i still have this one for plowing)
and my current '00 mentioned above.

anyone see a pattern? i quit having so many until i got a 3/4 ton!

as for the nissan, i view them as a mid sized truck, dakota or colorado arena. i don't say that to get anyone going, just my observation of the construction of the rear end. it is made of pressed steel and has an interesting finned aluminum cover.

has anyone here run a nissan for 100,000 miles with occasional towing yet?

it will be interesting to see how they hold up.

john

Dan G. · 09-25-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john hd

this looks like this has been quite a lively discussion.

i'm gonna throw my 2 cents in for whatever it is worth. i have towed my 29 with chevy half tons for years, until i got my current truck a '00 2500HD silverado. 6.0 gas 4L80E trans 4.10 gears.

i have had it for just 6 years now and do not see any need to change anytime soon. with out a doubt the best rig i have ever used for towing. other than a few warrenty issues it has been flawless.

the difference between it and my former half tons is day and night.

here is the list since i have owned my trailer.

'88 silverado 1500 4x4 350 3.42 gears
'92 suburban 1500 4x4 350 3.73 gears
'96 silverado 1500 4x4 350 3.73 gears
'98 silverado ex cab 4x4 6.5 turbo diesel 3.73 gears (i still have this one for plowing)
and my current '00 mentioned above.

anyone see a pattern? i quit having so many until i got a 3/4 ton!

as for the nissan, i view them as a mid sized truck, dakota or colorado arena. i don't say that to get anyone going, just my observation of the construction of the rear end. it is made of pressed steel and has an interesting finned aluminum cover.

has anyone here run a nissan for 100,000 miles with occasional towing yet?

it will be interesting to see how they hold up.

john

A NASCAR or Top Fuel Dragster has an aluminum differential cover as well. All it does is keep the fluid in. The housing that holds the pinions is steel. Being aluminum it also dissipates heat much better than steel. The fins help cool the fluid, cooler fluid keeps the fluid cleaner and will not oxidize as fast. There is no pressed steel anywhere in the driveline on the Titan. There are many facts that differentiate a full size truck vs. mid size this is not one of them.

FYI: Regardless what many think about the Titan or Armada it is no Dakota or Colorado. Totally different trucks all together. Apples and Oranges in every capacity and certainly in size.

gmw photos · 04-04-2014, 01:28 PM

Thought I would bring back this old thread in case someone does a search for Frontier as a tow vehicle. I know there are a few on this board that use these trucks.
Recently, the aftermarket "finally" got around to making tow mirrors for the current gen ( 2005-current ) Frontier. I got mine yesterday. Got them on, have not hooked up the trailer yet, but looks like they are going to work well. I also like them because they essentially mimic the Ford tow mirrors on our F350.

http://www.1aauto.com/1A/Mirrors/Nis...RP01309/752912

ggoat!!! · 04-04-2014, 11:42 PM

Those mirrors look like they will be perfectly functional and will definitely get the job done...

...but man are they FUGLY!

gmw photos · 04-05-2014, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggoat!!!

Those mirrors look like they will be perfectly functional and will definitely get the job done...

...but man are they FUGLY!

They are definitely some big 'ol ears !

But the view behind is awesome. Hey, let's face it a Frontier is not not exactly a thing of artistic beauty, but it's functional

( kinda like it's owner )

ggoat!!! · 04-05-2014, 07:27 AM

LOL well you've got a point there!

gmw photos · 06-02-2014, 01:16 PM

To add one more post to this ancient thread, again in case someone does a search about using a frontier to tow with, here I go again.
Added a hellwig rear anti sway bar to the suspension this weekend. Have not towed yet with it, but just driving it empty, I will say it made a nice improvement in handling. Worth the money, IMO. After towing with it, I will followup.