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08-19-2021, 08:34 AM
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#21
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Rivet Master
2018 30' Flying Cloud
Springfield
, Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 570
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You would do well to wait until more trucks are available, both new and used, in order to get a decent deal. Otherwise you will pay more than you should and will never recover the extra expense.
__________________
2018 Flying Cloud 30RB + 2020 Silverado 2500HD Duramax/Allison
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08-19-2021, 09:28 AM
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#22
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Rivet Master
2019 27' International
Western NC
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrowne
You would do well to wait until more trucks are available, both new and used, in order to get a decent deal. Otherwise you will pay more than you should and will never recover the extra expense.
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Of course that could be one to two years from now. Also my guess is going forward we’ll see fewer trucks on lots no matter what. Industry is figuring out ordered trucks for specific customers has higher profits as they don’t need incentives to sell.
__________________
2023 Van Leigh Vilano 320GK
2019 International Serenity 27 FBQ “TC Escape” SOLD
2019 Ford F-350 Platinum
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08-19-2021, 09:51 AM
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#23
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,744
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Hi
What is very true is that your trade in / used vehicle is worth *crazy* money right now. That may continue to be true for another 6 months or it may not. Nobody really knows.
We did a trade in at the same Ford dealer we have shopped at before. They gave us an insane trade in value for the F250 and sold us the F350 for invoice. That's not a giant discount on a truck, but it's all they ever did (even years ago) on the big trucks.
We locked in the trade in value (and upped the trade in value) a bit by giving them the old truck when we ordered the new one. That worked for us, might or might not work for you.
So, shop around. Not *all* dealers are doing nutty things on new vehicles.
Bob
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08-19-2021, 11:58 AM
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#24
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Rivet Master
2008 19' Bambi
2012 23' Flying Cloud
2016 25' Flying Cloud
Bandera
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 786
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I’ll just inject we have a 25FC FBT that we tow with a ‘17 Expedition Platinum, 3.6 liter turbo V6. We go West annually, just did some of the NC & TN mountains (also live in TX), and have no issues. Your consideration will likely be payload.
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08-19-2021, 01:53 PM
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#25
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4 Rivet Member
2005 25' Safari
palm beach gardens
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daquenzer
What? I have a 1/2 ton and it is NO CAR. I know of no cars that have a towing capacity of 12,300lbs.
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Payload is the problem with most 1/2 tons towing 25 and up. Even the devout 1/2 tons will agree, I was one once.
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08-19-2021, 01:55 PM
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#26
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4 Rivet Member
2005 25' Safari
palm beach gardens
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 290
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You will be very disappointed if you go backwards from a 3/4 ton diesel to 1/2 ton gas. Torque and payload are the big differences
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08-19-2021, 02:56 PM
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#27
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1 Rivet Member
Chattanooga
, Tennessee
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 9
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I tow much the same trailer with F150 3.5 Ecoboost. Just finishing up two month trip thru Rockies. Turbo makes a big difference at high altitudes- very little power loss. Always have more power than I need, and if it’s necessary to hit the gas to merge- power’s there. Plus, it cruises on the flat at very low rpm. Towing I get 11-12 mpg. Max tow package and extended fuel tank are nice options. Some (me) order the tow package features without the oversize side mirrors. Standard mirrors work just fine with the Airstream. Never felt the need for more truck.
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08-19-2021, 03:06 PM
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#28
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3 Rivet Member
2020 30' International
Ingleside
, Illinois
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 110
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As most have stated you could get away with a 1/2 ton for what you are towing. I happen to like the added control that a 3/4 ton HD truck provides. Also, you definitely don't need a diesel. However some just like the diesel and the exhaust brake. Problem with modern diesels is the need for diesel emissions fluid and associated regen issues. I have a 30' International and went with a Ram 2500 MegaCab. I chose the 6.4 Hemi V8 (with 4.10 rear end) and am loving it. This is our second season. I have towed through the Smokies, and a couple of weeks ago we just came back from Yellowstone. The gasser had plenty of power to spare. I would note that it is a thirsty beast, but you can buy an awful lot of gas for that 10k price difference.
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08-19-2021, 03:33 PM
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#29
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Rivet Master
2017 28' International
Jim Falls
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m rafferty
Payload is the problem with most 1/2 tons towing 25 and up. Even the devout 1/2 tons will agree, I was one once.
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I have plenty of payload with my 1/2 ton for what I need. If you are going to take all kinds of stuff then sure payload may be an issue. But one can also load things in the trailer if necessary. But I see no need to by a 3/4 ton just so I can have payload I don’t need.
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08-19-2021, 09:09 PM
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#30
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1 Rivet Member
2021 27' Flying Cloud
Prescott Valley
, Arizona
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 14
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Just ordered a new Silverado 3500 HD diesel 4x4 LWB for $1,000 BELOW MSRP. Considering the market, I was satisfied. I found the Internet sales manager, showed him what I wanted, told him what I’d pay, and he said OK. Build starts Monday.
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08-20-2021, 04:35 AM
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#31
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Rivet Master
2023 27' Globetrotter
Winder
, Georgia
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 517
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I towed our 25' RB with both a 1/2 ton fully equipped for towing (max everything) and then trade for a 2020 F250 Diesel. As far as towing, my conclusion is that is is a much better experience, and its hard to explain that until someone has done it with both. Much better fuel mileage(towing AND non-towing), better braking , and better overall stability. The engine braking is a huge plus in the mountains that you cannot get with gas. And.....I bought this truck in January of this year - brand new. It now has 11,000 miles. The trade in value right now is $10,000 MORE than what I paid for it.
The buzz that I am hearing is that Ford is moving towards filling their lots with F150's and really pushing the hybrids and Electrics because of course that's what Imperial Federal Govt. wants them to do. So they will still be making HD trucks but only on a special order basis. I'm sure the other manufacturers will follow suit. If this is the case, then resale values will continue to remain high.
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08-20-2021, 06:03 AM
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#32
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3 Rivet Member
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
Grand Rapids
, Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 101
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The really unfortunate part of the upcharges is that in order to be sure you don’t take another bath, you need to pay it off as you will be more upside down than usual if you try to sell/trade if/when a correction occurs.
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08-20-2021, 07:20 AM
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#33
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Rivet Master
2019 27' International
Rogers
, Arkansas
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daquenzer
What? I have a 1/2 ton and it is NO CAR. I know of no cars that have a towing capacity of 12,300lbs.
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Originally Posted by tjdonahoe View Post
1/2 ton is a car..I been running the ram. Diesel 3/4 ton 4x4..20-21 empty…12.5-14 with the 13 31’ Classic…
I'm sure tjdonahoe meant that 1/2 ton rides like a car but certainly pulls like a truck. My Chevy 1/2 ton with the 6.2L pulls (&stops) like a 3/4 ton (less payload of course) but doesn't have the everyday low quality ride when not towing like the 3/4 & 1 ton trucks.
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08-20-2021, 08:17 AM
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#34
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWallace
I tow much the same trailer with F150 3.5 Ecoboost. Just finishing up two month trip thru Rockies. Turbo makes a big difference at high altitudes- very little power loss. Always have more power than I need, and if it’s necessary to hit the gas to merge- power’s there. Plus, it cruises on the flat at very low rpm. Towing I get 11-12 mpg. Max tow package and extended fuel tank are nice options. Some (me) order the tow package features without the oversize side mirrors. Standard mirrors work just fine with the Airstream. Never felt the need for more truck.
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Hi
Towing a 10,000 pound 30' through the mountains with the F350 (diesel) we got 12.2 MPG. We do a bit better than that on the flat.
Bob
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08-20-2021, 10:05 AM
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#35
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikebrady62
Originally Posted by tjdonahoe View Post
1/2 ton is a car..I been running the ram. Diesel 3/4 ton 4x4..20-21 empty…12.5-14 with the 13 31’ Classic…
I'm sure tjdonahoe meant that 1/2 ton rides like a car but certainly pulls like a truck. My Chevy 1/2 ton with the 6.2L pulls (&stops) like a 3/4 ton (less payload of course) but doesn't have the everyday low quality ride when not towing like the 3/4 & 1 ton trucks.
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I figured tjdonahioe was referring to the F100/C10/D10 which were very close to passenger cars of the time. Ford discontinue the F100 in 1983, and the others around the same time IIRC. The F150 was designed to be a truck, primarily to avoid the regulations that applied to passenger cars.
A family member picked up a new GM 1500 recently. I was amazed how hard it rode. He did switch to LT tires the first day. It depends on one’s frame of reference.
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08-20-2021, 04:41 PM
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#36
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Rivet Master
2017 28' International
Jim Falls
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl
I figured tjdonahioe was referring to the F100/C10/D10 which were very close to passenger cars of the time. Ford discontinue the F100 in 1983, and the others around the same time IIRC. The F150 was designed to be a truck, primarily to avoid the regulations that applied to passenger cars.
A family member picked up a new GM 1500 recently. I was amazed how hard it rode. He did switch to LT tires the first day. It depends on one’s frame of reference.
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If one goes back and look at what trucks like a 3/4 ton were designed to do in 1990, you would find that the F150’s of today far exceed the capacity of a 3/4 ton. The max towing capacity of an F250 in 1990 was 10,000lbs. It had a 5.8 Liter V8 with 210 hp at 3800rpms. The 1994 F250 had a towing capacity of 12,500lbs. The towing capacity of an F350 in 1990 was 12,500 lbs. The biggest difference was that payload on the 3/4 and 1 tons were more. The link below gives an interesting history.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-duty-history/
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08-20-2021, 05:49 PM
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#37
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Rivet Master
2019 27' International
Western NC
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 860
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Let’s just all agree to disagree
There are 2 camps that will never agree. There’s a camp that says 1/2 ton will work just fine if in specs and even if slightly over as long as axles not overloaded and another camp that says you need to leave some overhead and a 3/4 ton or better is a smarter towing choice.
This inane discussion about it works and it’s good enough is in your opinion, there are other including me who say while it may work it’s not as comfortable/stable as towing with the larger truck.
Let’s just all agree that towing outside of specs is not smart and let it go.
__________________
2023 Van Leigh Vilano 320GK
2019 International Serenity 27 FBQ “TC Escape” SOLD
2019 Ford F-350 Platinum
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08-20-2021, 05:51 PM
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#38
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Rivet Master
2020 25' Globetrotter
Santa Rosa
, California
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSHED
The trailer is a luxury good, so is the truck. Unless I'm delivering them for $$, the quality of the experience is what I need to decide is worth the money - and that's intensely personal.
There really isn't a "break even" on hobby stuff - it's purely discretionary. The Airstreams hold their value better than most, but in the long run, it's always gonna be more cost effective to pursue a different recreational avocation. Kinda like how I spent all my extra $$ on flying when I was in my 20's. Don't regret a penny of it, but I was never under any illusion I was saving money by buying a sailplane vs renting one. (It's just more fun to go XC in your own).
If you like the way a diesel pulls, then you get to figure out how much ($$$) you like it. If you're kinda "meh" about it, the decision gets a lot simpler.
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Great post and perspective.
I'll put aside the fact that I've towed a 25' Airstream with an F150 and a diesel F250 and, hands down, much prefer towing with the F250. Instead, I'll just focus on the fact that I love my diesel Platinum model. Effortless power for any situation and all the creature comforts I could ask for, which my wife and I really appreciate on a long trip. Driving this truck is just a pleasure.
Will I recover the extra expense of the fancy trim and diesel? I guess I'll find out eventually but I almost don't care. I decided to pay for the experience and I'm really enjoying it.
__________________
Mike
2020 25' Globetrotter Twin | 2024 GMC Sierra 2500HD Denali Ult. 4x4 Duramax
400Ah Battle Born lithium battery string | 580W solar (400W roof 180W portable)
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08-20-2021, 06:43 PM
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#39
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Rivet Master
2019 27' International
Western NC
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeinca
Great post and perspective.
I'll put aside the fact that I've towed a 25' Airstream with an F150 and a diesel F250 and, hands down, much prefer towing with the F250. Instead, I'll just focus on the fact that I love my diesel Platinum model. Effortless power for any situation and all the creature comforts I could ask for, which my wife and I really appreciate on a long trip. Driving this truck is just a pleasure.
Will I recover the extra expense of the fancy trim and diesel? I guess I'll find out eventually but I almost don't care. I decided to pay for the experience and I'm really enjoying it.
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Make it a 27 and a F350 Platinum and I couldn’t have said it better. No comparison and wife thinks it’s more comfortable [emoji41]
__________________
2023 Van Leigh Vilano 320GK
2019 International Serenity 27 FBQ “TC Escape” SOLD
2019 Ford F-350 Platinum
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08-20-2021, 08:03 PM
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#40
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Rivet Master
2017 25' International
West Lake Hills
, Texas
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 1,644
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Towed the 25’ International for only 5000 miles with 2020 F-150 max tow and alleged 1610# payload. Actual payload is less when verified on the scale. Not enough payload for the tools, parts, chairs, and humans. It can be done but we got tired of moving gear from the trailer to the truck and back at every stop. All weights verified on multiple trips to the CAT scales. The AS pushes the truck around a bit. No sway. WD has to be cranked up higher than I think the truck and trailer can handle. They both complain about it. The movement of the gear and crosswind response, and the creaking made us move to a larger TV.
We had purchased the F-150 in October 2020 with the intention of pairing it with a 23’ AS but found a 25’ while visiting the son and his family in Virginia. That extra tongue weight has pushed us to the 3/4 ton truck. Ordered a 2022 F-250 in July. Expect delivery in November. No up-charge. No inventory on the lot. No bargaining.
Lots of folks are comfortable with the 1/2 ton towing a 25-er. I really wish I was, too, but I’m not.
Anxious to see the payload capacity of the F-250.
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