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Old 08-19-2021, 08:34 AM   #21
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You would do well to wait until more trucks are available, both new and used, in order to get a decent deal. Otherwise you will pay more than you should and will never recover the extra expense.
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Old 08-19-2021, 09:28 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by tbrowne View Post
You would do well to wait until more trucks are available, both new and used, in order to get a decent deal. Otherwise you will pay more than you should and will never recover the extra expense.


Of course that could be one to two years from now. Also my guess is going forward we’ll see fewer trucks on lots no matter what. Industry is figuring out ordered trucks for specific customers has higher profits as they don’t need incentives to sell.
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Old 08-19-2021, 09:51 AM   #23
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Hi

What is very true is that your trade in / used vehicle is worth *crazy* money right now. That may continue to be true for another 6 months or it may not. Nobody really knows.

We did a trade in at the same Ford dealer we have shopped at before. They gave us an insane trade in value for the F250 and sold us the F350 for invoice. That's not a giant discount on a truck, but it's all they ever did (even years ago) on the big trucks.

We locked in the trade in value (and upped the trade in value) a bit by giving them the old truck when we ordered the new one. That worked for us, might or might not work for you.

So, shop around. Not *all* dealers are doing nutty things on new vehicles.

Bob
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Old 08-19-2021, 11:58 AM   #24
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I’ll just inject we have a 25FC FBT that we tow with a ‘17 Expedition Platinum, 3.6 liter turbo V6. We go West annually, just did some of the NC & TN mountains (also live in TX), and have no issues. Your consideration will likely be payload.
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Old 08-19-2021, 01:53 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
What? I have a 1/2 ton and it is NO CAR. I know of no cars that have a towing capacity of 12,300lbs.
Payload is the problem with most 1/2 tons towing 25 and up. Even the devout 1/2 tons will agree, I was one once.
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Old 08-19-2021, 01:55 PM   #26
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You will be very disappointed if you go backwards from a 3/4 ton diesel to 1/2 ton gas. Torque and payload are the big differences
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Old 08-19-2021, 02:56 PM   #27
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I tow much the same trailer with F150 3.5 Ecoboost. Just finishing up two month trip thru Rockies. Turbo makes a big difference at high altitudes- very little power loss. Always have more power than I need, and if it’s necessary to hit the gas to merge- power’s there. Plus, it cruises on the flat at very low rpm. Towing I get 11-12 mpg. Max tow package and extended fuel tank are nice options. Some (me) order the tow package features without the oversize side mirrors. Standard mirrors work just fine with the Airstream. Never felt the need for more truck.
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Old 08-19-2021, 03:06 PM   #28
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As most have stated you could get away with a 1/2 ton for what you are towing. I happen to like the added control that a 3/4 ton HD truck provides. Also, you definitely don't need a diesel. However some just like the diesel and the exhaust brake. Problem with modern diesels is the need for diesel emissions fluid and associated regen issues. I have a 30' International and went with a Ram 2500 MegaCab. I chose the 6.4 Hemi V8 (with 4.10 rear end) and am loving it. This is our second season. I have towed through the Smokies, and a couple of weeks ago we just came back from Yellowstone. The gasser had plenty of power to spare. I would note that it is a thirsty beast, but you can buy an awful lot of gas for that 10k price difference.
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Old 08-19-2021, 03:33 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m rafferty View Post
Payload is the problem with most 1/2 tons towing 25 and up. Even the devout 1/2 tons will agree, I was one once.
I have plenty of payload with my 1/2 ton for what I need. If you are going to take all kinds of stuff then sure payload may be an issue. But one can also load things in the trailer if necessary. But I see no need to by a 3/4 ton just so I can have payload I don’t need.
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Old 08-19-2021, 09:09 PM   #30
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Just ordered a new Silverado 3500 HD diesel 4x4 LWB for $1,000 BELOW MSRP. Considering the market, I was satisfied. I found the Internet sales manager, showed him what I wanted, told him what I’d pay, and he said OK. Build starts Monday.
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Old 08-20-2021, 04:35 AM   #31
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I towed our 25' RB with both a 1/2 ton fully equipped for towing (max everything) and then trade for a 2020 F250 Diesel. As far as towing, my conclusion is that is is a much better experience, and its hard to explain that until someone has done it with both. Much better fuel mileage(towing AND non-towing), better braking , and better overall stability. The engine braking is a huge plus in the mountains that you cannot get with gas. And.....I bought this truck in January of this year - brand new. It now has 11,000 miles. The trade in value right now is $10,000 MORE than what I paid for it.
The buzz that I am hearing is that Ford is moving towards filling their lots with F150's and really pushing the hybrids and Electrics because of course that's what Imperial Federal Govt. wants them to do. So they will still be making HD trucks but only on a special order basis. I'm sure the other manufacturers will follow suit. If this is the case, then resale values will continue to remain high.
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Old 08-20-2021, 06:03 AM   #32
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The really unfortunate part of the upcharges is that in order to be sure you don’t take another bath, you need to pay it off as you will be more upside down than usual if you try to sell/trade if/when a correction occurs.
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Old 08-20-2021, 07:20 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
What? I have a 1/2 ton and it is NO CAR. I know of no cars that have a towing capacity of 12,300lbs.

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe View Post
1/2 ton is a car..I been running the ram. Diesel 3/4 ton 4x4..20-21 empty…12.5-14 with the 13 31’ Classic…

I'm sure tjdonahoe meant that 1/2 ton rides like a car but certainly pulls like a truck. My Chevy 1/2 ton with the 6.2L pulls (&stops) like a 3/4 ton (less payload of course) but doesn't have the everyday low quality ride when not towing like the 3/4 & 1 ton trucks.
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Old 08-20-2021, 08:17 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWallace View Post
I tow much the same trailer with F150 3.5 Ecoboost. Just finishing up two month trip thru Rockies. Turbo makes a big difference at high altitudes- very little power loss. Always have more power than I need, and if it’s necessary to hit the gas to merge- power’s there. Plus, it cruises on the flat at very low rpm. Towing I get 11-12 mpg. Max tow package and extended fuel tank are nice options. Some (me) order the tow package features without the oversize side mirrors. Standard mirrors work just fine with the Airstream. Never felt the need for more truck.
Hi

Towing a 10,000 pound 30' through the mountains with the F350 (diesel) we got 12.2 MPG. We do a bit better than that on the flat.

Bob
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Old 08-20-2021, 10:05 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikebrady62 View Post
Originally Posted by tjdonahoe View Post
1/2 ton is a car..I been running the ram. Diesel 3/4 ton 4x4..20-21 empty…12.5-14 with the 13 31’ Classic…

I'm sure tjdonahoe meant that 1/2 ton rides like a car but certainly pulls like a truck. My Chevy 1/2 ton with the 6.2L pulls (&stops) like a 3/4 ton (less payload of course) but doesn't have the everyday low quality ride when not towing like the 3/4 & 1 ton trucks.
I figured tjdonahioe was referring to the F100/C10/D10 which were very close to passenger cars of the time. Ford discontinue the F100 in 1983, and the others around the same time IIRC. The F150 was designed to be a truck, primarily to avoid the regulations that applied to passenger cars.

A family member picked up a new GM 1500 recently. I was amazed how hard it rode. He did switch to LT tires the first day. It depends on one’s frame of reference.
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Old 08-20-2021, 04:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
I figured tjdonahioe was referring to the F100/C10/D10 which were very close to passenger cars of the time. Ford discontinue the F100 in 1983, and the others around the same time IIRC. The F150 was designed to be a truck, primarily to avoid the regulations that applied to passenger cars.

A family member picked up a new GM 1500 recently. I was amazed how hard it rode. He did switch to LT tires the first day. It depends on one’s frame of reference.
If one goes back and look at what trucks like a 3/4 ton were designed to do in 1990, you would find that the F150’s of today far exceed the capacity of a 3/4 ton. The max towing capacity of an F250 in 1990 was 10,000lbs. It had a 5.8 Liter V8 with 210 hp at 3800rpms. The 1994 F250 had a towing capacity of 12,500lbs. The towing capacity of an F350 in 1990 was 12,500 lbs. The biggest difference was that payload on the 3/4 and 1 tons were more. The link below gives an interesting history.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-duty-history/
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Old 08-20-2021, 05:49 PM   #37
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Let’s just all agree to disagree

There are 2 camps that will never agree. There’s a camp that says 1/2 ton will work just fine if in specs and even if slightly over as long as axles not overloaded and another camp that says you need to leave some overhead and a 3/4 ton or better is a smarter towing choice.

This inane discussion about it works and it’s good enough is in your opinion, there are other including me who say while it may work it’s not as comfortable/stable as towing with the larger truck.

Let’s just all agree that towing outside of specs is not smart and let it go.
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Old 08-20-2021, 05:51 PM   #38
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The trailer is a luxury good, so is the truck. Unless I'm delivering them for $$, the quality of the experience is what I need to decide is worth the money - and that's intensely personal.


There really isn't a "break even" on hobby stuff - it's purely discretionary. The Airstreams hold their value better than most, but in the long run, it's always gonna be more cost effective to pursue a different recreational avocation. Kinda like how I spent all my extra $$ on flying when I was in my 20's. Don't regret a penny of it, but I was never under any illusion I was saving money by buying a sailplane vs renting one. (It's just more fun to go XC in your own).

If you like the way a diesel pulls, then you get to figure out how much ($$$) you like it. If you're kinda "meh" about it, the decision gets a lot simpler.
Great post and perspective.

I'll put aside the fact that I've towed a 25' Airstream with an F150 and a diesel F250 and, hands down, much prefer towing with the F250. Instead, I'll just focus on the fact that I love my diesel Platinum model. Effortless power for any situation and all the creature comforts I could ask for, which my wife and I really appreciate on a long trip. Driving this truck is just a pleasure.

Will I recover the extra expense of the fancy trim and diesel? I guess I'll find out eventually but I almost don't care. I decided to pay for the experience and I'm really enjoying it.
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Old 08-20-2021, 06:43 PM   #39
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Great post and perspective.



I'll put aside the fact that I've towed a 25' Airstream with an F150 and a diesel F250 and, hands down, much prefer towing with the F250. Instead, I'll just focus on the fact that I love my diesel Platinum model. Effortless power for any situation and all the creature comforts I could ask for, which my wife and I really appreciate on a long trip. Driving this truck is just a pleasure.



Will I recover the extra expense of the fancy trim and diesel? I guess I'll find out eventually but I almost don't care. I decided to pay for the experience and I'm really enjoying it.


Make it a 27 and a F350 Platinum and I couldn’t have said it better. No comparison and wife thinks it’s more comfortable
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Old 08-20-2021, 08:03 PM   #40
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Towed the 25’ International for only 5000 miles with 2020 F-150 max tow and alleged 1610# payload. Actual payload is less when verified on the scale. Not enough payload for the tools, parts, chairs, and humans. It can be done but we got tired of moving gear from the trailer to the truck and back at every stop. All weights verified on multiple trips to the CAT scales. The AS pushes the truck around a bit. No sway. WD has to be cranked up higher than I think the truck and trailer can handle. They both complain about it. The movement of the gear and crosswind response, and the creaking made us move to a larger TV.

We had purchased the F-150 in October 2020 with the intention of pairing it with a 23’ AS but found a 25’ while visiting the son and his family in Virginia. That extra tongue weight has pushed us to the 3/4 ton truck. Ordered a 2022 F-250 in July. Expect delivery in November. No up-charge. No inventory on the lot. No bargaining.

Lots of folks are comfortable with the 1/2 ton towing a 25-er. I really wish I was, too, but I’m not.

Anxious to see the payload capacity of the F-250.
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