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Old 04-08-2019, 12:19 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
One can't tell squat from just those two shots:

Camera positioned at different angles.
Rigs at different progression in the turn, relative to the cone
Speed?
Where was the maneuver begun, relative to the cone?
Camera tilt? (as mentioned)
The half ton seems tighter to the cone...was the 3/4 ton under-steering more?

Again, two stills don't tell us anything.
And...to add my 2 cents: if you look close, those pictures are taken at different maneuver locations/cone positions; no speed data given, so I agree; these still pictures don't prove anything...Maybe "someone" writing the article is trying to make a point about the different TV's....I am not sure, but I think there is a "business" that specializes in convincing people with TT's, they can tow with just about any smaller TV and be safe. I still like my 3/4T for the larger AS...
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Old 04-08-2019, 04:20 PM   #62
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Did either one crash?
No, and they were on a test track, so I understand that the school bus full of orphans was well beyond the clear zone.
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Old 04-08-2019, 04:21 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
One can't tell squat from just those two shots:

Camera positioned at different angles.
Rigs at different progression in the turn, relative to the cone
Speed?
Where was the maneuver begun, relative to the cone?
Camera tilt? (as mentioned)
The half ton seems tighter to the cone...was the 3/4 ton under-steering more?

Again, two stills don't tell us anything.
I wouldn't conclude anything from the stills. But they would cause me to read the article, and hear from the towing expert who was running the test. I think his comments are relevant.

I thought some fans of larger and heavier trucks would appreciate the comments of the author of the article, or at least the first part of the quote below:

Quote:
Going straight down the road the three-quarter ton feels more controlled – it is just when you try to change direction quickly you notice the difference
So one can cruise straight down the highway, and it feels great. Not so much for accident avoidance. It depends on the weighting that each individual applies to the various factors, IMO.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:34 PM   #64
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It depends on the weighting that each individual applies to the various factors, IMO.
Iíve seen people wrench their rig suddenly into the next lane to avoid a merging car even though there is no conflict. If you panic when someoneís blinker comes on you may want to select something that handles well. I drive in Detroit so Iíve learned not to swerve.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:37 PM   #65
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Iíve seen people wrench their rig suddenly into the next lane to avoid a merging car even though there is no conflict. If you panic when someoneís blinker comes on you may want to select something that handles well. I drive in Detroit so Iíve learned not to swerve.
Ha, I lived in Detroit for a few years and was in and out of the area for decades. First.....in Detroit the use of a turn signal is a sign of weakness. You TAKE your lane. If your truck is 22 feet long, 23 feet a lane over is more than enough...all at 75 mph.
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Old 04-09-2019, 10:44 AM   #66
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Iíve seen people wrench their rig suddenly into the next lane to avoid a merging car even though there is no conflict. If you panic when someoneís blinker comes on you may want to select something that handles well. I drive in Detroit so Iíve learned not to swerve.
If one has to wrench the steering wheel to accomplish a lane change, it might be a sign that the driver has one of those larger and heavier tow vehicles that doesnít change direction so well.

A good handling vehicle is not a liability. It is the first step in accident avoidance, eg active safety.
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:32 AM   #67
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I haven’t seen any big loads being pulled down the road with little trucks....you want to know why?
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:34 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by jcl View Post
If one has to wrench the steering wheel to accomplish a lane change, it might be a sign that the driver has one of those larger and heavier tow vehicles that doesnít change direction so well.

A good handling vehicle is not a liability. It is the first step in accident avoidance, eg active safety.
You do that you may roll it...my heavier ram turns easily...and fast...I donít do it...:
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Old 04-09-2019, 12:36 PM   #69
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You do that you may roll it...my heavier ram turns easily...and fast...I donít do it...:
That sounds like a good plan. The higher CoG and rudimentary suspension creates a greater tendency to roll.

Of course, that may mean that you can't avoid a crash that a better handling vehicle could have avoided.
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Old 04-09-2019, 04:10 PM   #70
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Data or it never happened.

This is an old article, but Patrick Bedard was always worth a read.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...rollover-risk/

Quote:
You can be sure of exactly two things about "consumer info" dished out as a "star" rating. First, it was created for the benefit of the provider, and second, it's been dumbed down to utter worthlessness for everyone else.
It's old, but just possibly driver attitude is step one:
Quote:
A wide-track convertible should score best of all, because removing the steel roof and rear glass lowers the center of gravity. Yet the Camaro convertible has the highest rollover death rate of all 1994-97 models in the HLDI data set, 167 versus 104 for the Camaro coupe (the Corvette was not included in this set, but for 1990-92 models, the low-slung Corvette's rate was highest of all the cars, 2.7 times higher than the Camaro's).
Vehicles have changed; human nature not so much.
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:26 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Ha, I lived in Detroit for a few years and was in and out of the area for decades. First.....in Detroit the use of a turn signal is a sign of weakness. You TAKE your lane. If your truck is 22 feet long, 23 feet a lane over is more than enough...all at 75 mph.
Actually, when someone uses their signal often I avoid them. Needing to change lanes every five seconds is neurotic. And some wonder why insurance rates are so high here.
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:28 PM   #72
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If one has to wrench the steering wheel to accomplish a lane change, it might be a sign that the driver has one of those larger and heavier tow vehicles that doesnít change direction so well.

A good handling vehicle is not a liability. It is the first step in accident avoidance, eg active safety.
I never wrench the wheel. You either make it or you donít.
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:31 PM   #73
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That sounds like a good plan. The higher CoG and rudimentary suspension creates a greater tendency to roll.

Of course, that may mean that you can't avoid a crash that a better handling vehicle could have avoided.
Avoiding a crash happens before an evasive maneuver. I canít remember the last time I had to swerve.
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:47 PM   #74
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Avoiding a crash happens before an evasive maneuver. I canít remember the last time I had to swerve.
Absolutely agree.

However, those decisions, like not driving when tired, driving at a speed appropriate for the conditions, leaving sufficient space, planning ahead, etc, donít tend to depend on vehicle choice. I was referring to situations after that point, when it can come down to an avoidance manoeuvre or a crash.

We only control our own actions. Have you never seen a crash where the victim wasnít the cause?
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:53 PM   #75
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Absolutely agree.

However, those decisions, like not driving when tired, driving at a speed appropriate for the conditions, leaving sufficient space, planning ahead, etc, donít tend to depend on vehicle choice. I was referring to situations after that point, when it can come down to an avoidance manoeuvre or a crash.

We only control our own actions. Have you never seen a crash where the victim wasnít the cause?
Yes, mechanical failure, not due to neglect.
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Old 04-13-2019, 02:30 PM   #76
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Once again, Slowmover; I am stumped at your comment's...are you pulling any 28' AS with a Dodge Charger?? My point was the larger 3/4T TV provided good control and braking in my situation; I do not believe a shorter, lighter, TV would have fared as well...Hard to understand how your comments are relevant to my real life situation unless you were there...no disrespect intended
Give ya credit for game:

Belief in magic? Where are your records of testing braking distance with either the 1/2T or larger pickups youíve owned. Validating that braking distance is SHORTER when hitched is a BASIC requirement.

Facts about braking distance are dependent on disc swept area and tire contact patch VERSUS the weight penalty of the vehicle above.

1). Whatís the NECESSARY increase in the tire patch contact area for a 1T to stop as short as a 1/2T? As the 1T has possibly a smaller CP.

You may like your current truck, but you make a fool out of yourself with what a junior high kid can show is false. Stop it.

My latest Peterbilt has six of possibly the largest disc brakes youíve ever seen using ten tires grip. And those are state-of-the-art highway tires, plus computerized controls galore (12-speed AMT downshift protocols, tailored engine brake application, etc). Itís more than impressive. Itíll put you thru the windshield.

Nevertheless, all up TARE is 21,500-lbs. Does this mean I can stop faster than you where all else is the same? Ha!

Fantasize all you like, but when ANY of you start to LIE, itís a different story.

Test. Couldnít be simpler. Starts with correct hitch rigging AS THAT MAXIMIZES BRAKE PERFORMANCE. But, you all donít do this also basic and also REQUIRED procedure.

Any of you canít be bothered to test combined-rig brake performance on a day off on a quiet road, what kind of man are you? (Yeah, Iím dead serious. Yeah, itíd be nothing but cuss words any of you were in front of me. Iíve watched it ďgo wrongĒ on the highway for a family more times than youíll see. My feelings about it are to want to pull over and beat Daddy to death with a lead pipe if any of those kids are killed. There wasnít anything accidental about what happened. That guy failed Man Test #1: Protector And now ALL of society suffers).

Grab a son or a nephew. A friend. Another dork like yourself. Get the Three-Pass Method DONE (hitch adjusted and hundreds of miles of testing for those last tweaks). THEN inspect and test brakes. Representative loads in each vehicle. (Donít give out any more dork vibes by whining about buying some tools. Calibrated air gauge, G-meter, orange traffic cones, 1Ē Drive torque wrench, whatever seems to suit).

Your rig doesnít stop SOONER hitched versus solo youíve got real problems.

If you want MORE brake performance you ADD antilock disc brakes to the trailer. And tires other than garbage ST-rated.

Going 1/2T to 1T makes braking worse, NOT better.

(Yeah, Id still rather have a car. Less work to drive it and more capable when it counts).

.
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Old 04-13-2019, 02:34 PM   #77
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I havenít seen any big loads being pulled down the road with little trucks....you want to know why?
Well, you ainít looking too closely are you? Plenty of one-tons being used to move loads in excess of 22,000-lbs. And more. Right to their axle limits.
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Old 04-13-2019, 02:41 PM   #78
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I never wrench the wheel. You either make it or you donít.
All in a straight-line, you mean. No lane change. With which an AS is more than capable even if the driver and tow vehicle are not?

Got those TUSON antilock brakes and their world-class brake controller installed? Their world-class trailer-mounted electronic anti sway device?

Or upsized anti-roll bars and Panhard Rod on the truck?


Most of all, made the short drive to London to have Andyís crew sort the hitch rig basics with a Hensley-patent hitch?

Or you just never get above 55?

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Old 04-13-2019, 02:58 PM   #79
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This feels like it ought to be right, but we've all had that friend of a friend who felt pretty good about committing to the exotic dancer with the chemical dependency.
The highway loss data institute does track these things (you'll have to navigate to large and very large trucks on your own), and at first glance it doesn't look like there's a huge amount of difference. (I've generally thought that the 350/3500 difference over a 250/2500 is the number used for hauling commercially. Like 15k/year, IIRC, to insure a hot-shotter)
https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/ins...ss-information

All I'm saying is that it may or may not be true. I don't actually have handy data to know. I'd kind of like that sort of thing to be generally true, at least part of me does.
Is this an intentional misunderstanding? ďTripping hazardĒ. A drop off the edge of the road of under two inches and the drivers reaction to get it back on the pavement. Thatís all it takes.

Experience is no barrier. Rollovers are 3% of all accidents but 25% of all fatalities. Pulling a trailer worsens odds & outcomes.

Salient point is always the same: Once, is all it takes.

You want a feeling of loneliness? Of despair that is every piece of anguish? Being first on the scene. For a long time. Crying child. Dead parents. And knowing none of it was necessary. Too fast for conditions? So what? Driver over-corrected? So what? Bad this & that? Again, so what does it matter now.

No obvious alcohol. Just shoe polish writing on the trailer back window about spring break.

Thatís not the only one Iíve been first. Or helped clean up. Or waited for the helicopters.

You all want pickups, hey, fine. But you none of you operate them solo or towing as theyíre capable of staying out of trouble. Havenít seen that since the 55-mph national limit.


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Old 04-13-2019, 03:24 PM   #80
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Is this an intentional misunderstanding? ďTripping hazardĒ. A drop off the edge of the road of under two inches and the drivers reaction to get it back on the pavement. Thatís all it takes.

Experience is no barrier. Rollovers are 3% of all accidents but 25% of all fatalities. Pulling a trailer worsens odds & outcomes.

Salient point is always the same: Once, is all it takes.

You want a feeling of loneliness? Of despair that is every piece of anguish? Being first on the scene. For a long time. Crying child. Dead parents. And knowing none of it was necessary. Too fast for conditions? So what? Driver over-corrected? So what? Bad this & that? Again, so what does it matter now.

No obvious alcohol. Just shoe polish writing on the trailer back window about spring break.

Thatís not the only one Iíve been first. Or helped clean up. Or waited for the helicopters.

You all want pickups, hey, fine. But you none of you operate them solo or towing as theyíre capable of staying out of trouble. Havenít seen that since the 55-mph national limit.


.
To what extent does it worsen the odds? Compared to, say, 5mph extra, driving into the sun, or working with too little sleep? I don't know either. If I did know, then I know which thing I'd target for a round of scarify.
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