New 2008 Ford Super Duty Pick Ups

[TomR]

I just got a large fold out poster of the new 2008 Ford Super Duty pick up.

The poster is of the amazing 2008 F-450 Super Duty! Towing capacity of 24,000#+ (5th wheel) and payload capacity of 6,000#+.

While the new 2008 F-450 might be a "bit" tooooo much to pull an Airstream...its "little" brothers the new 2008 Super Duty F-250 or maybe F-350 might be a really "neat" TV.

If I have studied the many posts correctly...the F-250 should be plenty for even a 34' Classic w/so? Seems like the "bigger is better" idea may not apply to getting toooo much pick-up for your AS?

My wife says I can't put the new F-450 poster on our living room wall...darn...I guess I will have to hang it in my home office!

If you are looking for a new heavy duty pick-up...do a search on the 2008 Ford Super Duty. Now I have to figure out if the "new" 2008 6.4L Power Stroke Diesel is going to be a winner...may take a few months on the road to get some reports...s/b out in early(?) 2008.

I can picture it now...a 2007 34' Classic w/so and a 2008 Ford F-250 CC SWB w/PSD! Wow...I guess I need to check my bank account... Tom R in Two Harbors, MN

[moosetags]

You can never have an overpowered TV. A new '08 F-450 would make a great partner for 16' Bambi. Talk about not knowing that the trailer is there!

[Roscinante]

SuEllyn,

Can I quote you? I have a 19' Bambi Safari that I currently pull with a 2006, V6 Toyota Tacoma. Works really well but...well, you know...size DOES matter!

Just need to convince the wife.

Jerry

[TomR]

Andy from Inland RV says toooo strong rear springs can defeat the effectiveness/purpose of WD hitch and actually cause damage to the A frame on the TT...at least I think that is what he sadi...

Did I read that right?

Is an F-350 single rear wheel overkill? Tom R in Two Harbors

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by TomR

Is an F-350 single rear wheel overkill?

The F350 has basically the same suspension as the F250, it mainly has thicker shims between the axles and the spring to make it sit higher. There are a few subtle differences, but most parts are interchangable between the two.
I also hope the 6.4 is better than the sick point oh. A brand-new one came into my shop today (3700 miles on it) and was leaking lube oil and transmission fluid from every possible spot, looks like it was dunked in an oil well before installation.

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by TomR

Andy from Inland RV says toooo strong rear springs can defeat the effectiveness/purpose of WD hitch and actually cause damage to the A frame on the TT...at least I think that is what he sadi...

Did I read that right?

Is an F-350 single rear wheel overkill? Tom R in Two Harbors

The answer to your question is going to be debated between two camps of thought, one following Andy's perspective, and one following the "bigger is usually better" perspective.

Of course you don't need a F450 to pull any Airstream, but I believe the vast majority of forum members would agree that an F250 or equivalent is a great all around choice, especially a diesel. As far as a Tow Vehicle being too big or too stiff to pull a lighter AS, most qualified automotive engineers will tell you that the tranference of damaging energy from a harsher riding Tow Vehicle is trivial compared to the shock of typical road conditions. Andy would be partially correct if you hooked up a HD Tow vehicle with an empty fuel tank, no other load in the truck and no passengers, but in reality, almost no one pulls under those circumstances. The tongue weight alone is usually sufficient to "load" the TV suspension for a safe and relatively smooth ride.

To further satisfy those who believe that a "too big" TV will damage your AS, contact any authority with experience in the test procedures that truck manufacturers put there vehicles through to prove out reliability and performance. There are specific tests that determine the shock force at the ball joint of the hitch that must fall below stringent guideline to pass. These trucks are designed to haul and PULL, a lot of effort goes into making sure that the TV is going to provide years of service and not destroy either the load in or behind the TV.

Just my opinion based on my experience, I am sure others will differ.

John

[thecatsandi]

If they are introducing a new engine. I would wait. It took a couple of years for them to straiten out the 6.0 when they introduced it.

[scottanlily]

I do believe there has been plenty of evidence that supports that too
much heavy suspension will impart jarring and harsh forces to the trailer .
Unless these experts have been towing airstreams around on 10,000 mile
road tests ,how would they know? Who has been doing any type of testing
with an airstream ? These trucks above an f250 have heavy suspensions
for heavy bed loads and fifth wheel trailers with huge front weights right
on the trucks rear axle .Get the right truck for the towing job .In many threads ,Andy has talked about the front rivits being sheared and loose
at the front plate at the base of the front of the trailer .Its not hard to understand this can happen .This is a proven fact time and again .

Scott

[wingfoot321]

I don't know the answer to this discussion but, I am sure watching mine close. Gmc 2500hd 300gas 4x4 and 29' Sovereign. No issues yet in the first 25000 towing. Poor roads in cities and bridges are my main concern. I rarely exceed 50mph in cities and 62 mph on the interstates. Some of the bridges are terrible.

I do know the answer to the human side of the equation. The 2500hd 4x4 will beat you up on a long day. I sure wish that my tow vehicle was a 2500 suburban instead of a pickup and not a 4x4.


We were out for 9700 miles this summer and up to 440 miles in a day and that is too far in a day with a 2500 pickup.

[Goin camping]

TomR,

You need to impress upon the Mrs. How safe that F-450 is. The brakes, stability and towing saftey margin. That you don't really want it and could "make do" with an F-250 but that you love her and the kids (if any real, planned or grand kids) too much to risk their saftey with a cheaper model and their weak and dangerous brakes.

You'll also have to get an Air hitch so the trailer is not damaged.

Start laying the groundwork now.

Good luck.

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by scottanlily

I do believe there has been plenty of evidence that supports that too
much heavy suspension will impart jarring and harsh forces to the trailer .
Unless these experts have been towing airstreams around on 10,000 mile
road tests ,how would they know? Who has been doing any type of testing
with an airstream ? These trucks above an f250 have heavy suspensions
for heavy bed loads and fifth wheel trailers with huge front weights right
on the trucks rear axle .Get the right truck for the towing job .In many threads ,Andy has talked about the front rivits being sheared and loose
at the front plate at the base of the front of the trailer .Its not hard to understand this can happen .This is a proven fact time and again .

Scott

Hi Scott,

Let us start with a clear understanding that the original poster is considering buying a new Airstream, not a vintage. I think you would agree that the construction methods and materials have changed over the 75 years of Airstream production. What may be true for a vintage may not apply to a 2007 model. Find me a late model AS that has proven damage from a late model HD trucks suspension....

It also seems that you don't believe that the US HD truck manufacturers test their vehicles with real live tests pulling comparable trailers. Not only do they test trucks pulling a multitude of trailers for 10,000 miles or more on specially designed test tracks (Ford has a testing facility near Lake Havasu, CA), they in fact use factory based Accelerated Life Testing to insure a 100,000 mile minimum life. Full chasis dynos are used to test the trucks in lab conditions allowing telemetric measurements of thousands of inertia points. These are not the dynos used in speed shops to measure performance values of drivetrains.

If in fact an F250 (or GM2500, Ram2500) can ruin a new AS, I think one should look closer at the design and quality of the AS, and not blame the truck. After all, isn't the Airstream trailer famous for being one of the best designed and built towables in the world?

One last question for the Andy camp...what proof is there that the damage caused to any AS (sheared rivits, etc.) was done by the TV and not a bad road or a very bad driver or maybe even a very old, tired trailer?

As always, I appreciate a good debate.

John

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE

One last question for the Andy camp...what proof is there that the damage caused to any AS (sheared rivits, etc.) was done by the TV and not a bad road or a very bad driver or maybe even a very old, tired trailer?

As always, I appreciate a good debate.

John

The damage could also have been done by out-of-balance running gear, which Andy has also stated.
A 3/4 ton truck is sufficient for almost any Airstream trailer ever made, but there is a limited use for a duallie-- the Integrity fifth wheel. It would be really cool to show up at a rally with a new F450 and an Integrity.

[scottanlily]

hello TIMEMACHINE , I know of no test Ford or any other manafacturer has done towing any airstream anywhere ,I think you should give us those findings here so it would be proven as such .to say that they do and its proven ?...You just made my point on your post on the BIG threes 2500 or F250 trucks can ruin an airstream ,so which is it ? they don't ,then they do
cause damage? The TV rear suspension is very heavy duty and designed for carring heavy loads ,thats a fact ,from the 3/4 to 1 ton and bigger .So it
is obviouse that the stiffer it is the more stresses are imparted to the trailer
thats a fact .so then it is reasonable to believe that the trailer can and will
be compromised in some ways ie: rivits etc if it is hitched up to a TV with
said heavy stiff rear suspension .some on this forum have removed some rear leaves on ther trucks and softened the ride with notable improvement ,thats
also a fact.One not need to look at the airstream to be built so that it can withstand punishment from an f250 or f350 or ? as it can be towed by a variety of good capable tow vehicals and NOT be abused in this way .The
airstream is top notch built as they have been for over 40 years .In regards to Inland Andys experience on this ,hes been at it for 40 years (fact) and
does have first hand knowledge of the rivit issues and Over stiff TV suspension and a multitude of other knowledge regarding airstreams and
issues related to them ,after having so much experience with them why then easily disregard him as not knowing what hes talking about ? I go with the
guy who does know about these trailers .The running gear imbalance and worn axles is yet another big issue that is proven out as compromising the trailer also .these rivit issues are a proven fact ,I read quite a few posts on the forums regarding sheared or loose front rivits on the trailer so It does happen ,then there are the loose cabinets and those types of things .If you
want to use an F450 as a TV thats ok its the trailer that will suffer .

Scott

[GetOutDoors]

Not long after buying my '66 Safari (22 foot), I soon found myself caught in the monte thing, tearing the Spiffy Gem down to the frame. In the process, I noticed that the rivets used in the front of the TT - those that attach the skin (both inside and out), were vibrated loose; some of the rivets had even been cut in half. The damage was very sever. The outside skin, below the front window, had to be replaced as the rivets had worn holes in the skin that were twice the diameter of the rivet itself. The PO had used Vulkem around the rivets to keep the leaks down. Clearly the tow rigs used by the previous owner(s) were "too much" for the TT.


I was raised on a ranch/farm and I never heard of having too much truck! But, I, for one, do not want to have to fix this kind of damage again, and won't subscribe to the "bigger tow rig is better" way of thinking. Clearly if the tow rig is too much, one can expect leaks!

[Goin camping]

I have three 3/4 ton 4X4's

1, 1953 Dodge Army ambulance. On a smooth road you can feel when you hit a pebble. Stiff ride.

2, 1960 International Harvester B120. I have only hit the overload springs on this truck once in the twenty years I owned it. I loaded it with fresh cut logs. This is also the only time I ever got a smooth ride from this truck.

3, 2006 Ford PSD. Smooth ride whether loaded or empty. The rear leafs are a helluva lot softer than the other two trucks.

I gave this comparison to point out that truck suspension has changed over the years. Newer trucks ride softer.

As technology changes whether it be Airstream going from a pole frame or the big three going to a softer suspension the facts we use to make our decisions changes.

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by Goin camping

As technology changes whether it be Airstream going from a pole frame or the big three going to a softer suspension the facts we use to make our decisions changes.

Thanks for simplifying the point I was trying to convey earlier. Sometimes I can get kinda wordy.

John

[TomR]

As I read all these posts...seems like a 3/4 ton CC single rear wheel will be Ok for even the 34' AS...and probably will be not be too much TV for most shorter/lighter ASs. I think particularly when you figure that my wife and I are likely to fully load the bed of the pick-up with anything form a full size Harley...or as an alternative one or two generators. In other word...we likely will use up some of the weight capacity and "quiet down" the harshness. We have been know to try and bring everything we own on trips.


I will keep reading...lots of great info . Tom R in Two Harbors, Minnesota...it's snowing outisde!

[Goin camping]

Originally Posted by TomR

As I read all these posts...seems like a 3/4 ton CC single rear wheel will be Ok for even the 34' AS...and probably will be not be too much TV for most shorter/lighter ASs. I think particularly when you figure that my wife and I are likely to fully load the bed of the pick-up with anything form a full size Harley...or as an alternative one or two generators. In other word...we likely will use up some of the weight capacity and "quiet down" the harshness. We have been know to try and bring everything we own on trips.


I will keep reading...lots of great info . Tom R in Two Harbors, Minnesota...it's snowing outisde!

Get the long bed if your taking a Harley.

[68 Overlander]

Tom,
I have been watching this truck. If I get one it will be my 3rd Superduty. Sold the first because I moved overseas for a short time but wish I still had my 99 7.3, dang that truck rocked! My 05 6.0 is fine but I really like that new 6.4 and styling of the 08 model. The biggest advantage to the 450/550 is the braking ability in my opinion. The gearing is a little low for every day driving but will climb a wall with anything hooked up to it.

[doorgunner]

I'm wanting to look at the new Toyota to be introduced in Feb.07. 10,000 lb towing capacity. Tim