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Old 02-05-2020, 05:59 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWind View Post
It takes only one handling emergency to demonstrate how sensible it is to tow with a 3/4 ton truck. SUVs and 1/2 ton trucks may have the power to go up the grade/pass. It's what can happen on the way down that makes the 3/4 ton the better choice.
100% Correct!!!!
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:34 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Happyjoemay View Post
I am very new to all of this and actually I am shopping for a tow vehicle. I have a 1972 Sovereign 31'. I had it delivered to a campground by the seller. I have been looking at 2007 +/- Ford Expedition EL SUV's with the 5.4 liter engine. For some reason the Expedition EL seems to be more affordable when searching for a tow vehicle. I dont have a make or model criiteria, just price, towing capacity and engine being V8. Any helpful advice would be very appreciated.
The reason you see so many Expeditions for very affordable prices, is because there are problems with them.....
Primarily, it revolves around the 5.4 engine, outfitted with "cam phasers".....The cam phasers actually rotate the camshafts to modify valve timing, to maximize power/fuel efficiency.....They are powered by oil pressure, and over time, the delivery of oil is affected by dirt, wear, etc,. and then the fun starts......On an average expedition with failing cam phasers, your repair bill could reach $4000.00......maybe less, but what happens is that once the problem is discovered, and diagnosed, it is quite possible that damage to the heads has occurred, and then you are off to the races......Basically, many folks are forced to replace the entire engine, and that could be 6-8000.00.....in many cases on a vehicle that in good condition may be worth 9000.00......
Your sovereign weighs about 5000, before your gear.....
Keep in mind that a new 31' weigh closer to 7500, so the tow vehicle needed is very different, depending on which generation you have.....

In my opinion, if you can find a 2500 Suburban, you are much better off....the motors in the suburbans are much more reliable. Even a 1500 Suburban with tow package will pull your sovereign ok, but if you upgrade to a newer unit, you will need to upgrade your tow vehicle also.....

I tow with a 2018 Tahoe, and with a Ford e-350 van......My Overlander weighs about 4700....The Tahoe pulls it fine....Behind the e-350, it is pure pleasure....

Others may have slightly different perspective, but I assume you want an suv to tow with, which is why i recommended the suburban.

Incidentally, supposedly, by 2011 Ford figured out how to keep the cam phaser issue from destroying the 5.4, but I am still leery.....

....hope this helps....
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:20 PM   #63
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I recently read an article on the upcoming Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer that said while they are primarily to be based on a modified version of the RAM 1500 chassis, there are stories beginning to surface that Jeep is working on still another version that may offer a more beefed up chassis with the availability of Cummins diesel power. This model would effectively fill the gap left by the much lamented Ford Excursion and the 2500 series Suburbans. Stay tuned.
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:35 PM   #64
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Just to put this (e.g. 105 feet braking distance) into perspective

"Still, despite significant bouncing and vibration under ABS, Walton accomplished a best 60-0 stopping distance of 134 feet. That's improved over the 2017 Silverado 2500HD, which stopped fully in 146 feet, and dramatically better than our F-250 long-termer's 160 feet."

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...t-test-review/


Quote:
Originally Posted by bono View Post
Interesting. I will not discuss which car is better as I am biased towards BMW. It is enough to watch, read some tests, do the test drive, etc. Majority of sources claim that BMW X7 is the king

In terms of braking there are numbers to compare - check motortrend

BMW X7 needs 105 feet to stop 60-0

2020 MB GLS 450 4Matic needs 113 ft
2020 MB GLS 580 4Matic needs122 ft

I did not find information for X7 M50i.
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:51 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by safaridave View Post
I recently read an article on the upcoming Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer that said while they are primarily to be based on a modified version of the RAM 1500 chassis, there are stories beginning to surface that Jeep is working on still another version that may offer a more beefed up chassis with the availability of Cummins diesel power. This model would effectively fill the gap left by the much lamented Ford Excursion and the 2500 series Suburbans. Stay tuned.
That seems highly improbable. The sales volumes would be too low to cover the development costs.

The two new models are more likely to be regular and XL wheelbase versions, as with the Expedition, but built on the same 1500 platform.
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:55 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by SilverWind View Post
Can you please cite a study that proves that?
May not be a study, but this is probably the only guy in the world who has tried to do some comparisons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo
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Old 02-06-2020, 06:55 AM   #67
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One of the many mods to our 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins was a replacement of the stock fuel tank for a 56 gallon underbid tank. Range is over 600 miles towing. I have to pee long before that distance is completed..... When not towing, we see 18+ mpg but towing is usually 12+ and drops in the mountains maintaining 65 mph or posted, which ever is lower or road conditions..

We see just over 16 mpg on the relative level towing the 6,062 pound 23D with our 2007 ML320 CDI at 55 mph vs the usual 28+ driving.
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Old 02-06-2020, 08:22 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happyjoemay View Post
I am very new to all of this and actually I am shopping for a tow vehicle. I have a 1972 Sovereign 31'. I had it delivered to a campground by the seller. I have been looking at 2007 +/- Ford Expedition EL SUV's with the 5.4 liter engine. For some reason the Expedition EL seems to be more affordable when searching for a tow vehicle. I dont have a make or model criiteria, just price, towing capacity and engine being V8. Any helpful advice would be very appreciated.
Rgentum: I have a 31' 1978 that I have towed many thousand miles first with a 13-year-old GMC 1500 2wd pickup and now with a 2014 1500 GMC pickup works well for me! good luck and make sure the trailer brakes are set up right they should engage about 4/10th of a second before the TV helps keep everything straight!
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Old 02-06-2020, 03:45 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bono View Post
Interesting. I will not discuss which car is better as I am biased towards BMW. It is enough to watch, read some tests, do the test drive, etc. Majority of sources claim that BMW X7 is the king

In terms of braking there are numbers to compare - check motortrend

BMW X7 needs 105 feet to stop 60-0

2020 MB GLS 450 4Matic needs 113 ft
2020 MB GLS 580 4Matic needs122 ft

I did not find information for X7 M50i.
Car and Driver:

BMW X7
Braking, 70Ė0 mph: 184 ft
Power 335 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque 330 lb-ft @ 1500 rpm
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.81 g
Cargo volume: 12 cu ft
Towing: 7500 lbs

MB GLS450
Braking, 70Ė0 mph: 154 ft
Power 362 hp @ 6100 rpm
Torque 369 lb-ft @ 1600 rpm
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.92 g
Cargo volume: 17 cu ft
Towing: 7700 lbs


Better Braking, More Power and Torque, Better Roadholding.
Way more Cargo, and Higher tow rating.

I'll take the Benz.
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Old 02-06-2020, 06:23 PM   #70
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Sure, it is your choice. I am sure MB is a good choice. Just not for me.

Six-inline BMW engine is benchmark for the industry. This engine won engine of the year aware multiple times. X7 is quicker and more fuel efficient than MB with more powerful engine.

Even the source you quote mentioned "The X7 drives slightly better when not in its default Comfort mode, it's quieter, has the more refined inline-six, and gets notably better fuel economy.".

Difficult to find other 70-0 mph braking tests. 60-0 mph BMW is quicker based on various sources.

"he X7's biggest dynamic surprise was its braking performance. Our testing revealed a class-leading 60-0 mph distance of just 105 feet, impressive for almost any segment let alone huge luxury SUVs."

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/...t-test-review/
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Old 02-06-2020, 08:36 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot View Post
Your GL wasn't setup correctly. I tow my 31 Classic with my ML. Been coast to coast with it and usually go out east every year. Never had a problem. Sure sometimes you want more power, but who doesn't?
I Don't. 2016 Ford F-250 6.7 liter diesel. Always have enough power to spare.
Wan't some ??
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Old 02-06-2020, 10:18 PM   #72
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How is your hwy mileage with your new rig?
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Old 02-07-2020, 03:12 AM   #73
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I towed a small trailer, 4500 lbs, with a ML 350 diesel for over 30,000 miles and the only problem I had was coming east out of Salt Lake on Route 80. That's a real long hill, over 10 miles, with a steep rise in elevation, possibly the worst in the the interstate system. The outside temperature was 102F. I thought I could do it at 75 MPH but the engine temperature went up too high and the engine software knocked me down to 40 MPH. I had to finish the hill in the right lane along with the semis.

There is a reason that heavy duty pickups have these giant, ugly front grills. They have giant radiators that suck in lots of air. An SUV can't keep the engine and transmission cool like a heavy duty truck.
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Old 02-07-2020, 04:35 AM   #74
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Lessons learned - Mercedes GL450 to RAM 2500

Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
One of the many mods to our 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins was a replacement of the stock fuel tank for a 56 gallon underbid tank. Range is over 600 miles towing. I have to pee long before that distance is completed..... When not towing, we see 18+ mpg but towing is usually 12+ and drops in the mountains maintaining 65 mph or posted, which ever is lower or road conditions..

We see just over 16 mpg on the relative level towing the 6,062 pound 23D with our 2007 ML320 CDI at 55 mph vs the usual 28+ driving.

Thatís pretty good mpg, I never got better than 10 mpg when towing our FC27FB with our 2012 Ram 3500 CCSB SRW 4x4 CTD. I also had the 56 gal. tank, never regretted that purchase.

Iím waiting for S&B Tanks to release their 52 gal. tank for our Ď18 Ram. (I still canít figure out why itís not an option on these trucks.)
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Old 02-07-2020, 04:58 AM   #75
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How is your hwy mileage with your new rig?
I have a 2019 RAM 2500 with the Cummins diesel. Driving in relatively flat NC and SC, I got 14.8 mpg driving at 65 mph and towing my 27' GT AS. This was calculated manually, 302 miles divided by 20.4 gallons (the onboard computer is always more optimistic).

FWIW!
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Old 02-07-2020, 05:52 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milo1952 View Post
I Don't. 2016 Ford F-250 6.7 liter diesel. Always have enough power to spare.
Wan't some ??
No thanks. I like the ride of my Benz. If I want something that rides and drives like the city bus I'll buy one of those.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:18 PM   #77
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I am adding more to the main topic; I was in the same SUV camp not too long ago, so I feel like I should share more about what motivated us to move from an SUV that the whole family loves to a 3/4 ton truck.

I understand the importance of the hitch setups. In the last year and a half, I did geek out on the hitch setups, multiple trips to CAT Scale, hours spent making spreadsheets to balance the payload, etc. It worked for a while, but in the end, it occurred to me that I was trying to use an SUV as a tow vehicle, which is primarily designed for something completely different. I would think that all the engineering brainpower at Mercedes Benz was more likely aimed at designing the GL450 for a comfortable and safe ride for a family of seven, and less so for towing a trailer. I can be convinced about a 1/2 ton, and I agree with drbrick's comment that 1/2 ton truck with proper towing options will do the job. It's a truck after all, and I presume that towing capability would have played a significant role in its design decisions.

However, I do acknowledge the importance of the hitch setup, which should undoubtedly be given much attention no matter how big the tow vehicle is.

As for 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton; for us, we were going to buy a vehicle just for towing, so it made sense to get a vehicle that provided a comfortable ride, longer wheelbase, enough payload capacity, and good towing capacity, a combination that was only easily achievable in a 3/4 ton gas truck. We went from the wheelbase/payload/towing capacity of 121"/1595#/ 7500# to 149"/2835#/14300# and a RamBox : )

In the end, this is how far my thinking has evolved so far, who knows what shape it will take in the future. I'll keep sharing my learnings. Happy towing!
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:35 AM   #78
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98% of population do not understand that truck was not designed for towing. I believe you can get MB GL(S) with payload around 1,600 lbs. This will be official number, these cars are overbuilt. Sure, if you cannot travel light, you are bringing you house to the campground and need >1,600 lbs payload, you may think about getting a truck to tow your trailer.

If you get truck for the sake of payload, you need to accept poor handling, poor braking. These are decisions we all need to make...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AShar View Post
(...) It worked for a while, but in the end, it occurred to me that I was trying to use an SUV as a tow vehicle, which is primarily designed for something completely different. I would think that all the engineering brainpower at Mercedes Benz was more likely aimed at designing the GL450 for a comfortable and safe ride for a family of seven, and less so for towing a trailer. (...)
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:39 AM   #79
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As part of your evaluation you should take the rig to the CAT scales and compare loads with the GVWR and GAWRís in the sticker on the driver side door post.
That was what got me to move up to a 3/4 ton for pulling our 2017 FB Flying Cloud. Our 2017 F150 Platinum (3.5EB engine) pulled fine but as we started to load up more crap (....sigh....) it started feeling a bit off and when I went to a CAT scale I was indeed over the GVWR and GAWRs front and rear. Since I knew we were going to also be loading up grandkids, we reluctantly traded for a F250 Platinum with the 6.7 diesel. It works well towing but it is not as good of a daily driver (I drive it to work in the winter, about 20 miles each way). Still, I am happy I moved up. But if I had originally bought a less loaded F150 or didn't load so much, it would have worked.
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:29 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bono View Post
98% of population do not understand that truck was not designed for towing. I believe you can get MB GL(S) with payload around 1,600 lbs. This will be official number, these cars are overbuilt. Sure, if you cannot travel light, you are bringing you house to the campground and need >1,600 lbs payload, you may think about getting a truck to tow your trailer.

If you get truck for the sake of payload, you need to accept poor handling, poor braking. These are decisions we all need to make...
  • HD trucks are designed and tested for heavy towing extensively by the manufacturer's engineering department. Towing capability is one of the main deliverables for these trucks.
  • Not sure what your situation is, but 1600# isn't much payload. A family with teenage kids and a dog can easily exceed that limit while traveling ultra-light when you have an AirStream putting 850# to 1000# on the tongue.

We are keeping our GL and X5 as daily drivers, but are done towing with SUVs. Again, I fully understand where you are coming from, like I said I was one the advocates for towing with SUV on this forum until recently. The whole idea of this post is to share how my thinking has evolved. Can't say if it's right or wrong, I am just sharing my experience.
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