Leaving My Oil-burner Tribe

[Ginophiles]

Well after 10 years with our 3rd diesel, with 2 gassers in between, we've left our oil-burning tribe behind. While it's an eternal debate here, diesel vs gas, it's always interesting to hear how various folks work it out in their own situations.

Had an old 6.9 in the early '00s, replaced with a Nissan Titan, then an F350 6.0la RAM 1500 and finally a RAM 2500 6.7 Cummings.

The 2014 RAM Cummings was a work horse and my work truck as a contractor. 10 years later and 150000 miles later the turbo said goodby. 3 days of YouTube, swearing and an $1800 remanned turbo later it was up and running. My arms looked like hamburger from trying to reach into tight spots and the wife was laying under the jacked-up rig trying to reconnect the oil drain line to the new turbo .

It saved us $4k-$10k and got us running again, but the codes just kept coming. Managed to clear all but 1, U059e, related to the NOx sensor, which we had to fart around with to replace the turbo. Meanwhile the tranny sometimes shifted a bit weird, and the newly replaced power steering pump (Les Schwab) was making noise again. That was in addition to the rattling coming from somewhere under the rig.

We're retired now and take the tin can out a few times a year for a few weeks at a time. What to do truck wise? We scoured the local dealers and Carvana for 200 miles from our area and found a pretty good deal on a base model RAM 2500 with the 6.4 gasser. the 6.7 diesel was a $9500 up charge. We pulled the trigger on it and my new shell and running boards were able to cross over to the new one.

We'll miss the diesel towing for sure, but not upfront money or the oil changes or the fuel filter changes or all the extra charges for having a diesel.

What about the rest of y'all?

[CharlesinGA]

Did you not pull the front right wheel and wheel well liner? This leaves you looking straight in at the turbo.

At any rate I really love my '03 Cummins. I've never towed with anything else, and don't want to. So long as I can shift gears, I'll keep this truck.

Charles

[Slimpockets]

I learned that lesson replacing the low pressure fuel pump on my diesel. Not to say gas trucks don’t have problems. They just are less money to fix those problems.

[Andy543]

Diesels cost more, but you get your money back in lower fuel costs in about 100,000 miles.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by Andy543

Diesels cost more, but you get your money back in lower fuel costs in about 100,000 miles.

I'd question that. With the price of Diesel being higher than gas, filters, oil changes, and additional DEF, and an uncharge of $10,000, I don't see how you recover your expense.
Better fuel economy? Okay, it better be stunning.

That's assuming you don't need repairs.

[Andy543]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I'd question that. With the price of Diesel being higher than gas, filters, oil changes, and additional DEF, and an uncharge of $10,000, I don't see how you recover your expense.
Better fuel economy? Okay, it better be stunning.

That's assuming you don't need repairs.

Towing with a gasser you get about 10 MPG, while you can get 14 MPG or more with a diesel. At some point the diesel becomes cheaper, which is why the commercial world runs on diesel.

[LNBright]

Originally Posted by Andy543

Towing with a gasser you get about 10 MPG, while you can get 14 MPG or more with a diesel. At some point the diesel becomes cheaper, which is why the commercial world runs on diesel.

Diesel costs more here; and we're getting 12mpg towing on gas. If I had a BIG camper, I'd have considered a diesel (well, I did consider the 3.0 diesel), but the 5.3 is plenty for our particular camper (a 20FB). If I had a big camper and was full-timing, I'd consider a big diesel, but for our use, we're good on gas.

[jeffmc306]

Ginophiles, I was an oil burner wannbe but got talked out of it by the RAM Truck manager. He asked what I was going to do with the truck. Showed him the specs on our 2019 27’ Globetrotter and said “you don’t NEED the Cummins”. For us, it was the right advice.

Our 2019 RAM 2500 with the 6.4 has been plenty of truck, towing up and down Monarch Pass in Colorado. The 8 speed ZF trans has been a joy as well. Don’t need 10 speeds. The combination delivers decent mileage too; 10-12 MPG on average depending on the terrain.

I think you’ll find your new to you truck will be just fine.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Diesel *should* cost less than gas. That's based on the cost of each coming out of the refinery.

For many years, various states have been playing with fuel taxes. Most folks don't use diesel so a tax increase there does not "get noticed" as much.Trucking companies don't get to vote .

It's been quite a while since there was any real cost advantage (due to better MPG) with diesel up here in the northeast.

Bob

[SuperTrouper]

2002 7.3 Excursion here with 320K miles. Yeah maintenance is more expensive and the new diesel horror stories are scary. This 7.3 has been excellent and the maintenance has been expensive excepting if you compare it to a new vehicle. The 44 gal tank is nice. The engine only failed once and I wasn't towing, the high pressure oil controller for the injectors died. The 7.3 (T444 Navistar) has an interesting design. The injectors are driven my high pressure oil controlled by solenoids. If the high pressure oil pressure is low (bad controller), the engine just quits, no lights, no nothing. When mine died I was heading down I-80 from Donner Summit and didn't know it shut off until I had to start climbing again. One flatbed later, I had the other high mileage failure part replaced at the same time. The Cam timing sensor. If I had to give the Ex up and had to buy a late model TV, I'd research gas and diesel and repair rates for same. Not ready for electric to tow a 27'.

[rbs]

Friend sent me some information on something Cummins has in the works, built around the 6.7 block. I will try to attach the utube video(s), but if I can't get it done, a simple search will find you the information. Really interesting for sure, a gas motor with unbelievable torque.

[Ginophiles]

Originally Posted by Andy543

Diesels cost more, but you get your money back in lower fuel costs in about 100,000 miles.

Yeah, maybe. Here in California, for almost the entire 11 years I owned my mine, diesel was always more expensive, often more than premium. That's at regular places, special discount stations like Costco are even cheaper for gas and don't offer diesel. Various local Tribal Casino complexes were the best for price for diesel, but still more than gas. Plus, a bit of DEF.

So, around here, the money back calculus relies just on milage, with the diesel doing a bit better empty and much better towing and likely even better towing up hill.

Does that savings in milage with more expensive fuel still work when the added cost of operation is a factored in? I saw one YouTube guy using Canadian figures IIRC, but comparing Mopar filters and full synthetic oil and DEF for the diesel, he was calculating ~$14 per 1000km for gas and ~$30 per 1000k for diesel for maintenance.

The saving based on better MPG may take a lot more than 100K miles to pay off, at least for us.

Obviously, a diesel is a more enjoyable towing experience with all the torque and the exhaust break, but for most of us life is all about compromises. We do lots of stuff besides taking the Airstream out. We still ended up with a new 2500 truck with a 14K# towing capacity, so more than double our 7K# International for around $55K with lower operating costs. With the astronomical price of trucks, that worked for us. Knowing full well we'll be in the slow lane heading over Donner summit.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Andy543

Diesels cost more, but you get your money back in lower fuel costs in about 100,000 miles.

The various fleet studies that have been posted previously don’t support that. It depended largely on what the purchase premium was for the diesel, and if the manufacturers were discounting it at the time of purchase.

Another factor is tying up $10k or so in the vehicle for many years. The fleets consider the time value of money. That $10k cost could be double.

Diesel fuel should actually cost more than gasoline because it contains slightly more energy per gallon.

[LilBird]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Diesel *should* cost less than gas. That's based on the cost of each coming out of the refinery.

For many years, various states have been playing with fuel taxes. Most folks don't use diesel so a tax increase there does not "get noticed" as much.Trucking companies don't get to vote .

It's been quite a while since there was any real cost advantage (due to better MPG) with diesel up here in the northeast.

Bob

How true! We were in California recently, where fuel prices are astronomical. We happened upon a Tribal casino with a fuel station: diesel and gas were the just about the same price — $3.00 a gallon. Sadly I’ve not come across something similar in the NE.

The decision to go gas or diesel is predicated on so many, quite personal, factors. At the end of the day, we all can argue effectively for our preference, yes?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Diesel *should* cost less than gas. That's based on the cost of each coming out of the refinery.

For many years, various states have been playing with fuel taxes. Most folks don't use diesel so a tax increase there does not "get noticed" as much.Trucking companies don't get to vote .

It's been quite a while since there was any real cost advantage (due to better MPG) with diesel up here in the northeast.

Bob

While historically diesel required less refining and was thus cheaper to produce than gasoline, the switch to produce ULSD, and the investment required in refineries to be able to do that, changed the equation.

[dmartinez]

You get most of your money back at resale, Diesels retail their value.

[Life is a Highway]

Good choice ,

[FMSports]

I like that the RAM1500 diesel is one tank per towing day or 700km. Fill once, and ready to go. Saved a few $thousand for sure over 3 extended trips.

Unfortunately, they don't make sense unless deleted. I have 20K miles on the 2nd engine. It is smelly without the DPF/SCR, and not possible in a lot of states.

IDK what the answer is.

[Andy543]

Originally Posted by FMSports

I like that the RAM1500 diesel is one tank per towing day or 700km. Fill once, and ready to go. Saved a few $thousand for sure over 3 extended trips.

Unfortunately, they don't make sense unless deleted. I have 20K miles on the 2nd engine. It is smelly without the DPF/SCR, and not possible in a lot of states.

IDK what the answer is.

You also have to delete the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation system). This is what causes all the problems with diesel engines, leading to lower power, lower fuel economy, increased particulate emissions and lower engine life.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by Andy543

Towing with a gasser you get about 10 MPG, while you can get 14 MPG or more with a diesel. At some point the diesel becomes cheaper, which is why the commercial world runs on diesel.

Wrong - the commercial trucking world moved to Diesel engines because they offer more torque and better pulling power. Being able to shorten to the drive time means much more to trucking companies than nearly anything else, and having truck engines which can make that happen is vital.

At the time the switch was made the largest gasoline engines in production were barely adequate to pull the then-largest trucks up a steep grade, and they did it at slow speeds. The reason modern trucks can sail up and down the Rockies is because they're powered by Diesel engines.

There was once an added benefit that Diesel fuel was much cheaper than gasoline, but that is no longer true and hasn't been for years. Either way, fuel cost was not the reason the switch was made and isn't the reason they stick with it. Also, keep in mind that at the time the switch was made both Diesel and gasoline were incredibly cheap to buy.

There is also the safety issue - Diesel tanks don't carry fuel which creates explosive vapors when leaked out.

There are other advantages to Diesel engines, but I think that this is enough.