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Old 11-21-2020, 06:48 AM   #61
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2018 25' International
Slidell , Louisiana
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The explanations provided by Land Rover in their manuals, supplemental bulletins and their technical support phone line https://www.landroverusa.com/contact-us.html all have physical basis. They reference potential for vehicle and trailer damage. They warn against possibility the WD equipment (set up incorrectly) can cause or contribute to instability (oversteer). They mention difficulty setting it correctly with load leveling suspension and possible interferrence with stability programming.

Yesterday I called them again. On the phone, I asked specifically about the Eurocentric meme and the representative assured me all considerations were for passenger experience and safety. When I asked if they tested Weight Distribution for the North American market and insisted WD set correctly is an improvement the rep referred me to the department manager who assured me if Land Rover felt the advantages outweighed the potential for error, they would take a different position.

I continue on this theme to dispel the notion vehicle manufacturers are cavalier and arbitrary. They generally are not. The primary motivation to recommend WD is to raise towing limits when the vehicle is rear axle load limited. But adding WD to most (or all) Land Rover models will not increase towing limit. I, like others here understand there are several other benefits to WD and recommend them for nearly all combinations. Like Wulfraat, I would use WD on the RR and make sure it is set correctly as he cleverly did.
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Old 11-21-2020, 07:07 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
The explanations provided by Land Rover in their manuals, supplemental bulletins and their technical support phone line https://www.landroverusa.com/contact-us.html all have physical basis. They reference potential for vehicle and trailer damage. They warn against possibility the WD equipment (set up incorrectly) can cause or contribute to instability (oversteer). They mention difficulty setting it correctly with load leveling suspension and possible interferrence with stability programming.

Yesterday I called them again. On the phone, I asked specifically about the Eurocentric meme and the representative assured me all considerations were for passenger experience and safety. When I asked if they tested Weight Distribution for the North American market and insisted WD set correctly is an improvement the rep referred me to the department manager who assured me if Land Rover felt the advantages outweighed the potential for error, they would take a different position.

I continue on this theme to dispel the notion vehicle manufacturers are cavalier and arbitrary. They generally are not. The primary motivation to recommend WD is to raise towing limits when the vehicle is rear axle load limited. But adding WD to most (or all) Land Rover models will not increase towing limit. I, like others here understand there are several other benefits to WD and recommend them for nearly all combinations. Like Wulfraat, I would use WD on the RR and make sure it is set correctly as he cleverly did.
Well Brian this is just a response from RR. A respected company who would prefer to sell cars and is more than likely aware of the market needs/wants in the USA. How could this possibly supersede some source from an Internet forum? Surely the experiences of one person towing in a way that contradicts the manufacturerís guidelines is enough to prove a case. Again any issue or worry is easily overcome. Simply search the internet hard enough and eventually you find the answer you want.
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:03 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
The explanations provided by Land Rover in their manuals, supplemental bulletins and their technical support phone line https://www.landroverusa.com/contact-us.html all have physical basis. They reference potential for vehicle and trailer damage. They warn against possibility the WD equipment (set up incorrectly) can cause or contribute to instability (oversteer). They mention difficulty setting it correctly with load leveling suspension and possible interferrence with stability programming.

Yesterday I called them again. On the phone, I asked specifically about the Eurocentric meme and the representative assured me all considerations were for passenger experience and safety. When I asked if they tested Weight Distribution for the North American market and insisted WD set correctly is an improvement the rep referred me to the department manager who assured me if Land Rover felt the advantages outweighed the potential for error, they would take a different position.
That site links to the manual that I referenced previously. It doesn’t forbid WD.

It says that WD isn’t recommended. They very clearly use red, amber, and blue flags to indicate practices that are recommended against, practices that have cautions, and explanatory note. The WD note is a single reference, and isn’t restricted.

Surely you would agree that any supplemental equipment, when set up incorrectly, can cause issues. The question at hand is whether a Range Rover is somehow different than other vehicles in this respect.

The complications with RR load levelling can certainly make setting up the combination more challenging, no doubt. That may be reason enough for people to select an alternate vehicle. But to extend that to WD being a negative when set correctly doesn’t follow.

The manager you spoke to appears to be unable to confirm that they in fact test WD equipment, as previously reported by someone who wanted a technical answer and not a sales department answer. If you go one step further, and have that manager contact the tech resources (because you contacted the USA sales team), you can see if the answer matches the one previously reported, that they don’t test WD and so can’t comment.

There are constant references on this forum to manufacturers sales reps not being reliable sources of information. The one you spoke to appears to be saying “I have no data, but trust me on this” That may be sufficient for some.

If you are to claim that a manufacturer has tested WD with representative trailers, and has determined the oversteer limits, as you have done previously then please post that, it would be good info. Lacking that, there is a lot of FUD in this discussion.
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Old 11-21-2020, 04:43 PM   #64
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jcl, you may want to read my text a little less critically but a bit more carefully, you will see I agree WD is recommended against but not restricted. I also believe owners of most Land Rovers should use WD hitches. I did speak to the technical resource team, after being referred from sales (I did not describe this previously, but I flatly refused to speak to sales or marketing). The manager was an engineering manager and did confirm WD was tested for the North American market, then went on to say they don't recommend it, as I described.
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Old 11-21-2020, 05:18 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
jcl, you may want to read my text a little less critically but a bit more carefully, you will see I agree WD is recommended against but not restricted. I also believe owners of most Land Rovers should use WD hitches. I did speak to the technical resource team, after being referred from sales (I did not describe this previously, but I flatly refused to speak to sales or marketing). The manager was an engineering manager and did confirm WD was tested for the North American market, then went on to say they don't recommend it, as I described.
That is great if you got through to the factory product development testing manager. When he confirmed they tested WD, did he give you the values where understeer becomes an issue? Can he provide documentation of test results? Did he express any concerns about the challenges of setting it up, suggesting that in itself may be the reason they don’t recommend it?

I saw your comment that you would use WD in this application. So would I. I think most reasonable people would. I wasn’t addressing just you. Just look at Shiny’s response, above. There are posters who think WD is somehow not permitted, or unwise. Setting it up is certainly more complicated than with other vehicles, but that is the price of admission.
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Old 11-21-2020, 06:20 PM   #66
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The manager was managing technical support not product development though he was previously in the product development and testing as a engineer. You should call them, see if you have a similar experience. My daughter owns a RR and I used her VIN as a reference in, I pretended to be the owner, though I did tell them it was my daughters vehicle. I did not press him for specific values but he did indicate they preferred to be conservative. We talked about the SAE .3 and .4 g guidance which he scoffed at indicating Land Rover and Jaguar customers expected better without indicating what better was even after I pushed him. I did mention that I had access to a data source with some test results from some Range Rover models but after asking for them he would not confirm the numbers I quoted him and then reminded me if they were accurate they were proprietary. He was quite curious how I got the numbers I had, but I would not say. He did say they were not quite right, but I take that with a gain of salt.

edit: As to Shiny16's comments, he seem even more reasonable than me.
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Old 11-21-2020, 07:42 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by jcl View Post
That is great if you got through to the factory product development testing manager. When he confirmed they tested WD, did he give you the values where understeer becomes an issue? Can he provide documentation of test results? Did he express any concerns about the challenges of setting it up, suggesting that in itself may be the reason they don’t recommend it?

I saw your comment that you would use WD in this application. So would I. I think most reasonable people would. I wasn’t addressing just you. Just look at Shiny’s response, above. There are posters who think WD is somehow not permitted, or unwise. Setting it up is certainly more complicated than with other vehicles, but that is the price of admission.
I never said what your implying. I just don’t get all the posts that are just conjecture as to why a manufacturer puts restrictions on vehicles they sell. It’s just a European thing, they don’t have WDHs in Europe ect ect. The threads always start out of concern for someone’s TV capabilities.
Instead of just digging until you find the answer that fits your intentions why not just start with a TV that comes the manufacturer fully endorsed for the operation intended? Surely when we are talking about 70k plus TVs and 100k trailers money is or should not be the issue.
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Old 01-18-2021, 07:44 AM   #68
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Just to chime in since I have not been here in a while and you are all still going back a forth arguing.

Still running no WD and the Hayes unit. Works perfectly and would not change a thing.
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Old 05-19-2021, 11:22 AM   #69
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Towing Nest and 23' Globetrotter with 2018 Land Rover Discovery Td6

Hi All. I have a 2018 Discovery Td6 with the optional class IV tow hitch which is rated to tow 7700 lbs and thought I would share my experience in case it is helpful to someone. For about a year I towed an Airstream Nest travel trailer over thousands of miles through all kinds of road and weather conditions and for that 4000lb trailer the D5 was the prefect tow vehicle. I did not use any sway control or weight distribution and was able to tow at speeds up to 75mph safely and comfortably. Plus, when I arrived at a destination I had all the off-road capabilities of the Discovery to get me to trailheads anywhere I wanted to go. It was really a great setup.

About a year ago we traded the Nest for a 2020 Globetrotter 23FB which is about 6000 lbs. Those extra 2000 lbs completely changed the dynamics of towing. This setup absolutely requires sway control. I towed the Globetrotter for short distances with out, and that is not a good experience at any speed above 50 mph. I really wanted to use a weight distribution hitch with integrated sway control, but after doing a lot of research and speaking with a couple guys at Caman RV I decided to go with Land Roverís recommendation to not use weight distribution. If you look up a drawing of the D5 trailer hitch (https://www.landroverpartscounter.co...racke-lr083050) it is more or less a straight bar without the long extensions on the sides that most hitches have to handle the torque applied to the hitch with weight distribution. My conclusion was that the torque from a weight distribution setup would just be too much for the short side arms on the D5 hitch and I was not comfortable with this.

My solution was to install a Tuson Electric Sway Control on the trailer along with a Curt Friction Sway Control. With this setup we have been able to safely tow our Globetrotter through difficult conditions such as high winds, rain and mountain passes. In high winds it is noticeable, and extremely impressive, to feel how the Tuson activates the trailer brakes to control sway. One thing to note for Airstream owners is that Airstream brakes are wired in series which, at least for me, made this not a do-it-yourself installation. My local Airstream dealer charged about $500 for installation which was well worth the price.

Having said this, I am still not happy with the experience of towing a 6000 lb trailer with the D5. While this setup does a good job of controlling side-to-side sway, it does not prevent the up-and-down motion of the back end the vehicle over rough roads. Towing over the undulating pavement of rural Colorado roads for a few hours felt like piloting a small boat over rough seas and made me sea-sick for the first time in my life.

I know there are many comments that Land Rovers do not require weight distribution because of the auto-leveling air suspension. It is true that the auto-leveling does an amazing job of keeping the vehicle level regardless of how much weight is put on the rear end of the vehicle. What is cannot do, however, is distribute some of the hitch weight of the trailer from the rear axle to the front axle, leaving the rear axle to act as a pivot point. This, I believe, is what results in the up-and-down motion that is felt over rough roads.

Finally, the diesel engine in the Td6 is outstanding for towing. Iíve pulled the 6000 lb trailer up steep grades over high elevation mountain passes at highway speeds and the Td6 never struggled at all. The fuel economy of the diesel is also impressive when towing, averaging about 17-18 mpg.

My advice is that if you are towing a trailer weighting around 4000 lbs the D5 Td6 is a great tow vehicle, but if you are getting much above that the inability to use weight distribution becomes a limiting factor. We have decided that for our 6000 lb Airstream it is time to look for something with a higher tow rating that allows the use of weight distribution.
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