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Old 07-08-2020, 06:58 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Please stop propagating misinformation... air suspension has little to do with weight distribution or towing. It cannot return enough weight to the FA.
Weight distribution moves the necessary weight back to steering axle.

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Why does the RR documentation specifically prohibit a WD hitch? I don't want to do anything that would void the warranty, or that the manufacturer has deemed unsafe.
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Old 07-08-2020, 07:08 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by switters View Post
Why does the RR documentation specifically prohibit a WD hitch? I don't want to do anything that would void the warranty, or that the manufacturer has deemed unsafe.
Most probably it's a combo reason.
1st the receiver itself is not designed to transfer the needed leverage.
2nd the unibody design/construction does not allow the mounting of a receiver that would transfer the needed weight.

FWIW...the DW's MB 550 is more than capable, the receiver>>>>not so much.

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Old 07-08-2020, 09:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by switters View Post
This is what's so confusing. Seems there's a lot of disagreement about the question of whether a WD hitch is necessary for RRs as TVs.

According to Land Rover's own documentation, "The use of weight distribution hitches is not recommended. Using weight distribution hitches can potentially cause serious damage to the vehicle."

Special-Ed, the documentation of the 2019 RRS says that it has something called "Trailer Stability Assist (TSA)". This is how it's described:

Would this replace the Hayes Sway Master, or does that do something different?
The physics of towing is complicated which is why it is so confusing. It is made worse by the huge numbers drivers who don't understand the physics but because they have towed in limited situations know just enough they feel their experience translates to other situations.

So from an engineering and physics perspective, I will clear things up a bit.

First off Robert is correct. Air suspension does not redistribute the weight shifted off the front axle by the torque generated by tongue weight, so it is false to advise that air suspension is an adequate substitution for Weight Distribution (WD).

Second, without WD and depending on the vehicle and the tongue weight, steering response and handling stability degrades. WD when properly applied will help with both for all vehicles specifically designed and marketed for towing and for most but not all other vehicles. If you are interested in a more complete description, send me a private message.

Third, LR engineers and marketing have designed and marketed your particular vehicle for light to modest towing. Thus the structural components are a bit too flexible for hauling heavy loads. Adding substantial WD tension to a vehicle with these design features while perfectly fine for all normal conditions, can cause issues in dynamic situations. Severe accidents are one such case and WD will increase tendency for increased structural damage in a collision. Another is negotiating severe uneven terrain, which can also cause structural damage or creasing of some structural sheet components.

To address this LR marketing decided not to market this vehicle to medium and heavy towing and instead drastically reduced their liability by advising against WD thus relegating the vehicle to light towing where use of WD has only very slight improvements to stability. They further addressed lack of WD by adding active sway control to their suspension programming. I'll explain the relationship between WD and sway control in a bit.

So, does this mean you should not use WD? No. This vehicle can competently tow a 6000 pound trailer, and with modest WD will be comfortable, competent and stable. You should limit tension to 650-750 lbs at most as a good compromise so 750 lb bars (refers to tongue weight not tension) will work best. You should also release tension to cross a deep drainage swale or ground that is significantly uneven side to side.

Although The RR has active sway control to reduce and stop it once it starts, passive sway control raises the stability speeds and prevents it from happening. They complement each other. the vehicle is small, short and light, so in your case the WD hitch should have good sway control properties, I like the Reese Straight-Line or similar. Avoid the Recurve as it's sway control is not linear so it confuses the active sway control programming. Sway damping increases with WD tension on all hitches though adjustment is independent on some so a system like the straight line or other hitches with independent adjustable sway dampers will be best for you.

Edit: Bob also pointed out the receiver mount might be weak. It is likely so you need to take a good look at it.

Hope this clears things up a bit.
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Old 07-21-2020, 06:48 PM   #24
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Not sure if anyone is still following this thread, but I just bought a used 2019 Range Rover Sport TD6, and am waiting to take delivery. It has the factory hitch option installed. Does this hitch have weight distribution? Do I need to do anything to make this hitch work better with my 23' Flying Cloud (which we also just bought and are waiting to take delivery on)? I'm completely new to trailers and towing, so I'm trying to figure this out. Thanks.
Switters: I have a 2019 RR sport and pull a 23fb International. I do not have a sway bar or distribution hitch. My RR pulls it with no problem. I would tell you to not get the extra hitches and try it out first. I spoke with experts and I was told to NOT use a distribution hitch on my RR. A sway bar would be ok if i felt i needed. So far, i have not needed it. Good Luck.
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Old 07-21-2020, 08:23 PM   #25
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Switters: I have a 2019 RR sport and pull a 23fb International. I do not have a sway bar or distribution hitch. My RR pulls it with no problem. I would tell you to not get the extra hitches and try it out first. I spoke with experts and I was told to NOT use a distribution hitch on my RR. A sway bar would be ok if i felt i needed. So far, i have not needed it. Good Luck.
I did end up ordering the Propride 3P hitch/sway control after reading a ton and speaking to several different people. I heard this from one expert, which I thought was interesting:

Quote:
"Manufacturers do not recommend that*European*SUVs*use weight-distributing hitches. WDHs (weight distribution hitches) aren’t used in Europe for one historical reason… *Back in the 1960s, the Eaz-Lift company tried to introduce their WDH to the*European*market. The*European*RV industry panicked and thought the US would subsequently try to gain a foothold and start flooding the market with North American trailers. Legislation was soon enacted to ban the sale of the Eaz-Lift (and all WDHs) as a result."
Another expert said:

Quote:
"The foreign car brands like Range Rover, Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche all have that disclaimer [not to use a WD hitch].* Overseas they don't use weight distribution and build their trailers with lighter tongue weights. But WD hitches are still helpful for these brands."
In any event, I'll get a chance to try both ways. I'm picking up my 23FB Flying Cloud on Friday, but my 3P hitch will not arrive until Monday. I'll be towing the 23FB back to my house on Friday and will take it out for a spin on Sat and Sun to get a feel for it.

I will then probably install the 3P hitch early next week in time for our first trip with the 23FB that weekend.

I was feeling nervous about towing the 23FB for a few days without the 3P, but your post has eased my concerns about that. Thanks for your reply.
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:35 AM   #26
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Without WD and sway control, streering response will be a bit sluggish, under steer will be excessive and sway tendency will be moderate for this vehicle so make sure traffic is lite and leave plenty of room ahead of you so don't need to make precise evasive maneuvers. Watch for tractor trailers, give them plenty of room along side you and keep your speed down a bit especially in cross winds.

The pro pride when set up correctly will correct for all these stability issues and your ride will be noticeably more comfortable, crisp, smooth and stable. if you can't feel a significant difference, keep working with your set-up till you do.
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:13 PM   #27
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Without WD and sway control, streering response will be a bit sluggish, under steer will be excessive and sway tendency will be moderate for this vehicle so make sure traffic is lite and leave plenty of room ahead of you so don't need to make precise evasive maneuvers. Watch for tractor trailers, give them plenty of room along side you and keep your speed down a bit especially in cross winds.

The pro pride when set up correctly will correct for all these stability issues and your ride will be noticeably more comfortable, crisp, smooth and stable. if you can't feel a significant difference, keep working with your set-up till you do.
I am with Brian on this, I fought the idea of WD and used my bumper hitch to get my trailer from the dealer and also on our first trip camping. the hitch worked fine but I did feel the porpoising and the truck felt heavy and sluggish and had a lots of rear squat. I installed my WDH and was able to level out the combo and the ride improved greatly. Much smoother. Our Honda owners manual say that WD is not required but can be used. Sort of an on the fence statement!

We have a unibody and there have been some efforts to make the connection between the receiver and body stiffer. I have seen steel sections welded between the receiver and the IRS mount to attempt to shift the forces toward the front of the truck. I have considered this but in a conservative manner not to attempt to pull a heavier trailer that exceeds the specs provided by Honda. If something were to happen, I would need to have Honda on my side and exceeding their specs would give them the ability to wash their hands and walk away.

Apart from that departure from the topic, I would recommend a WDH system and your 3P should really make a difference with your enjoyment in pulling your trailer all over the place!
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Old 07-25-2020, 06:27 AM   #28
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I am with Brian on this, I fought the idea of WD and used my bumper hitch to get my trailer from the dealer and also on our first trip camping. the hitch worked fine but I did feel the porpoising and the truck felt heavy and sluggish and had a lots of rear squat. I installed my WDH and was able to level out the combo and the ride improved greatly. Much smoother. Our Honda owners manual say that WD is not required but can be used. Sort of an on the fence statement!

We have a unibody and there have been some efforts to make the connection between the receiver and body stiffer. I have seen steel sections welded between the receiver and the IRS mount to attempt to shift the forces toward the front of the truck. I have considered this but in a conservative manner not to attempt to pull a heavier trailer that exceeds the specs provided by Honda. If something were to happen, I would need to have Honda on my side and exceeding their specs would give them the ability to wash their hands and walk away.

Apart from that departure from the topic, I would recommend a WDH system and your 3P should really make a difference with your enjoyment in pulling your trailer all over the place!
I picked up our FC 23FB and drove it from the dealer in Salt Lake City to our home in Park City. It was fine, but I noticed the same things you mentioned, and I am definitely going to install the 3P hitch, which arrives on Monday.

I've watched the YouTube installation video and have read the manual a couple of times. I'm about average on the "DIY/handy-ness" scale, but with the video, manual, and Propride Facebook group I think I can do it.
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:51 AM   #29
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I picked up our FC 23FB and drove it from the dealer in Salt Lake City to our home in Park City. It was fine, but I noticed the same things you mentioned, and I am definitely going to install the 3P hitch, which arrives on Monday.

I've watched the YouTube installation video and have read the manual a couple of times. I'm about average on the "DIY/handy-ness" scale, but with the video, manual, and Propride Facebook group I think I can do it.
I am sure there are many Propride users here as well that can help too!

If you do run into something that doesn't make sense, just take a step back and think about it. Most of this is designed to fit but there are always little things that can trip up anyone and combine that with things attached to the A-frame of your Airstream.

Please post back about your impressions of the hitch.
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:58 AM   #30
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Will do!
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Old 07-25-2020, 09:30 AM   #31
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Amazed at how many people are comfortable towing at the upper limits of the TV, because it “gets the job done” and will tow the trailer. Many vehicles will cover those bases and still not be as safe as one properly rated and configured to actually “do the job” they’re asked to do.
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Old 07-25-2020, 09:58 AM   #32
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Amazed at how many people are comfortable towing at the upper limits of the TV, because it “gets the job done” and will tow the trailer. Many vehicles will cover those bases and still not be as safe as one properly rated and configured to actually “do the job” they’re asked to do.
Hi Gibson, there are many different positions on this topic and you can see by the number of "Can I tow ____ with ____?" threads.

It is really hard to get someone to change their mind about their choices once they have started down their path. All we can do is share our experiences, right or wrong and hope that the posts help in the end.

The challenge is this middle range of towing capacities that are coming on strong. There are so many vehicles that are claiming to tow ~5,000 lbs. These are great little SUV's, minivans or little trucks and work very well doing their Monday to Friday tasks. Add the towing factor and now these owners are heading to Jackson Center to get their new Bambi or FC because they saw their combo on a brochure and that's what they want to recreate.

LR's towing double axle Airstreams on TV ads are not uncommon, I just saw another lottery ad showing a 3 combos cruising along some coastal setting. If they can do it, then I can too

Perhaps "The right tool for the job" should be the thread title.
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:56 AM   #33
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Air suspension only levels the tow vehicle. A weight distribution hitch is needed to shift weight from the rear axle to the front axle of the tow vehicle and the rear axle of the trailer. If the front and rear axles are not balanced, the front will not steer and the rear will be overloaded. The tow vehicle will be unstable. This is why you must weigh the axles to determine the load carried by each set. A CAT scale at a truck stop is the place to get those weights. Pat
This is exactly correct. I tow a 27FB with a Cayenne that has the air suspension and it sits perfectly level when hooked up. But, it takes so much weight off of the front wheels that it is just plain squirrely to drive at speeds over 40 MPH. Only when I return all the weight back to the front wheels via WD will it handle properly and feel properly planted on the road.

Here is a good video explaining the difference between leveling with air suspension and weight distribution.
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:14 AM   #34
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The Range Rover Sport has a tow capacity of 7700 lbs and a max tongue weight of 770 lbs. this is more than enough for a FC 23FB. Especially with a ProPride hitch.
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:05 PM   #35
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The Range Rover Sport has a tow capacity of 7700 lbs and a max tongue weight of 770 lbs. this is more than enough for a FC 23FB. Especially with a ProPride hitch.
Hi switters, with all the specs and capacities worked out, and the awesome Rover V8 engine pulling the combo, I expect that you are in better shape than I am with my Honda! You have 50% more capacity than I have.

The WDH should make your combo a really nice travelling setup.
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Old 07-30-2020, 08:29 PM   #36
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Hitch length

Is anyone not worried about the WD hitch length as opposed to what is recommended in the Range Rover manual?
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:57 PM   #37
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Is anyone not worried about the WD hitch length as opposed to what is recommended in the Range Rover manual?
In my opinion, the manual(s) are referring to the location of the ball (pivot point) of a conventional bumper pull hitch. The Propride and Hensley hitches, by design, project the pivot point forward to the vicinity of the rear axle which would seem to make the length of those hitches moot.

Further, sway control is designed in to these hitches and is independent of weight distribution.
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Old 07-30-2020, 11:08 PM   #38
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As I read the RR Sport 2020 manual, the length of the hitch seems to be measured as the distance between the ball and the locking pin, and it’s in reference to a factory installed receiver, not a bumper mounted one. I would think that the length of the hitch might be relevant in that a longer hitch would exert more leverage, and at some point too much, on the vehicle. Just wondering, since RR doesn’t recommend a weight distribution hitch to begin with.
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:17 AM   #39
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Is anyone not worried about the WD hitch length as opposed to what is recommended in the Range Rover manual?
I have been concerned about my setup as there is quite a difference in the offset between my WD and regular hitch This difference is about 6" and i can open the tailgate with my WD so that is an advantage.

The smooth ride and stability are huge advantages as well.

The way the WD hitch loads up the tow vehicle is different by taking the pivot from the ball away, and moving it into the receiver.

This will put more torque on the receiver than a regular hitch.
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:42 AM   #40
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In a much earlier post, I had read where someone suggested trying the WD hitch without the tension bars to see if the RR towed OK. Having just got home from the dealership with a new RR Sport (V8 engine), I saw in the owner's manual a recommended max length of the hitch being 8.5", and of course without WD. My old WD Blue Ox one (from my former TV) is about 14" so it seemed like it would be inappropriate to use it without the bars. It was very difficult to talk with anyone at the Land Rover dealership about towing capabilities ("tongue weight" was even a foreign term) so the owner's manual appeared to be most authoritative. I think I'll stick with using the WD hitch with its 750 lb. bars for towing a 23' International Serenity FB. The specs imply that I should be fine. Fingers crossed--first trip tomorrow.
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