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Old 05-11-2021, 08:03 PM   #41
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2011 28' Flying Cloud
Orillia , Ontario
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F150

I must have missed some thing here. I have been rving for well over 30 plus years and had 5 trailers and several different tow vehicles and had a F350 diesel and went back to gas and never regretted it. I have been towing my 2011 flying cloud now for 10 years and have never had an issue,it has been set up correctly and tows like a dream.
Stops in emergency breaking situations on more then a few occasions. I just don't under stand the F250-F350 stuff.
On that note my F150 has heavy duty pay load package. Cost a way less then my diesel ever did and the mileage is not much different from my F350.
Also I use my truck more not towing then towing so plus on that side of things but I guess if I tow my trailer 500 mile every day it would make a difference.
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:31 PM   #42
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I was considering buying a new f350 vs. f250 due to availability. My research indicated the f350 also comes with lower gearing standard and gets about 1.0 -1.5 mpg less than f250. You also might be faced with having to pay more for insurance costs. If you keep your TV for 15+ years like I did, it adds up.
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Old 05-12-2021, 10:47 PM   #43
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I tow a 25 ft with a gas F350. I have over 4k of payload. The trailer weighs less than half what the truck is rated to tow. I have plenty of truck for the job. I enjoy towing with my F350.
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Old 05-14-2021, 03:18 PM   #44
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Is an F350 overkill?

Figured I’d add some data to this discussion. We are currently full time in our 27 International Serenity and have clothes, and stuff for all 4 seasons, 2 ebikes, fishing gear, hiking gear, tools, spares, grill, solo stove, 2 Yamaha 2200 generators etc. so lots of stuff. With full fuel in the truck and 80% full fresh water, and 25% grey and black here’s the real numbers. I want you to note tongue weight is approx 1200 lbs with WD applied. Also we are closer than I thought we’d be to GVWR numbers.

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Old 05-15-2021, 05:43 AM   #45
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Thanks, everyone, for continuing to respond to this thread. We drove trucks yesterday, getting time in an F250 (used), and F350 (2017 and 2019), and a 2500 (new). Overall we prefer the F350. FYI, right now where I live a 2019 F350 with the tow package and 27K miles is the same price as a brand new F350 that won’t be delivered until later in the year. The truck market is tight at the moment.
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Old 05-15-2021, 05:51 AM   #46
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Thanks, JonDNC for your response! We love data. Through data lies the answer to many problems but not the existential ones. I’m going to give this a go and see if I understand your numbers. The CAT weights are the weights at the scale. The columns are F(ront) weights, R(ear) weights, and T(otal) weights, then plus the trailer. Your gross total weight of the entire rig is 18380.

It’s interesting to see how the weight shifts to the back axle as you add weight to the bed, then add the hitch. This alone makes me prefer the F350 and probably the diesel. I don’t remember off the top of my head what the GVWR is for the F250 and F350 but I would agree that you are closer than I would have thought to them, just doing mental math. It’s kind of like estimating calories in a dessert - the cake is how much?

Again, thank you! This is extremely helpful!

Margaret
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Old 05-15-2021, 05:55 AM   #47
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It absolutely does. Thanks for adding your thoughts!
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Old 05-15-2021, 07:44 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air0801 View Post
Thanks, JonDNC for your response! We love data. Through data lies the answer to many problems but not the existential ones. I’m going to give this a go and see if I understand your numbers. The CAT weights are the weights at the scale. The columns are F(ront) weights, R(ear) weights, and T(otal) weights, then plus the trailer. Your gross total weight of the entire rig is 18380.

It’s interesting to see how the weight shifts to the back axle as you add weight to the bed, then add the hitch. This alone makes me prefer the F350 and probably the diesel. I don’t remember off the top of my head what the GVWR is for the F250 and F350 but I would agree that you are closer than I would have thought to them, just doing mental math. It’s kind of like estimating calories in a dessert - the cake is how much?

Again, thank you! This is extremely helpful!

Margaret


You got the numbers.. specs are far left column for my rig.
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Old 05-15-2021, 12:53 PM   #49
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Thanks Jon,

That is excellent information.
Do you happen to have the weights of truck axles with the trailer on but weight distribution NOT engaged?

I'm wondering about the true tongue weight and how much weight the Blue Ox is shifting back to the front/steering axle?

Jeffrey
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Old 05-15-2021, 01:30 PM   #50
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Is an F350 overkill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoublTrouble View Post
Thanks Jon,

That is excellent information.
Do you happen to have the weights of truck axles with the trailer on but weight distribution NOT engaged?

I'm wondering about the true tongue weight and how much weight the Blue Ox is shifting back to the front/steering axle?

Jeffrey


I did that before the topper etc was installed

At that time - note I think I was running one link tighter then, loosened things up 9ne notch for a little more flex / smoother ride.

Rear axle w/o WD. 5560
W/ WD. 5260

Front w/ WD 5000
F w/o WD 4760

Trailer w/ WD 7220
w/o WD 7140

Probably big difference was tankage on the trailer probably carrying 300 lbs +/- more liquid

With less tension probably shifting 175 lbs is my guess. Was shifting 240 with 1 link more. We like the ride better on the 8th link.
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Old 05-15-2021, 02:35 PM   #51
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^^^ Well done. Thank you!
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Old 05-16-2021, 09:50 AM   #52
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Hi

The "break point" between the F-350 and F-250 is very arbitrary. Cost wise / capacity wise it's really all one truck. They just keep adding this and that. The capacity goes up and so does the cost. Once you decide on a couple of things, that will push you into one or the other:

1) Do you want diesel? If so it adds a chunk of weight to the truck.

2) Do you want 4x4? Again a weight hit.

3) Fancy trim / big cab? ditto

Pile all that on and the payload of an F-250 shrinks quite a bit. You *have* to go by the door post sticker. Internet info will lead you astray.

Your payload needs to handle the tongue weight and the weight of the hitch it's self. Without that ... you have no trailer . However many folks and pets you travel with add in next. Past that, it's up to you. How much "stuff" do you haul along with you? We run at least 500 pounds in the bed of the truck, occasionally more.

Staying below about 80% of the max is a good idea. It covers a number of issues, including that sneaky little "occasionally more" thing ....

Bob
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Old 05-16-2021, 09:51 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air0801 View Post
Hello, new friends - ...


If you’ve read this far, see above re: the Lord’s work. Here are my questions:

1. Are we missing something? If we can safely save $10K, great! I’ll buy beverages at the first caravan/meetup we attend. If you recommend we spend another $10K, thanks...and you’re buying the beverage.
2. Is an F350 for a 27’FBT like taking a baseball bat to a fly?
3. Do I need to be thinking about the hitch in this conversation or can any good hitch be added to the correct vehicle? If someone can direct me to a good explanation of how the whole system works together, I will study it carefully.

That’s it for now. Again, thank you!

Margo
The F250 diesel is plenty to haul a Globetrotter of the size you specified. The real decision point generally comes down to hauling capacity. Since you mentioned the probability of several tanks in the bed of the truck, and liquids are relatively heavy (8+ lbs per gallon for water) and gasoline/diesel not insignificant, the thought of an F350 is not out of the question. Your comment that there is not much difference in price between and F250 and F350 does not seem to fit with your comment about $10K differences... but look really closely at your anticipated payload requirements. Electric bicycles (down the road?) are heavier than regular, and mountain bikes heavier than road bikes. Water and fuel tanks will take up space in the TV bed, but also will eat up payload capacity.

Many have towed problem free with an equalizer type hitch but others swear by the more expensive hitches by ProPride and its competitors.
When you consider the difference in price of hitches remember you probably paid a lot more for your Globetrotter. I bought a used 2004 Safari with dual axles before the recent RV craze so I put a lot less into an Airstream than you, and because of the weight of the 22 foot 2004, I am comfortable with an Equalizer brand hitch. My Tundra pulls it well. If I had a new 27 foot Globetrotter, I might spring for the more expensive hitch, but that is me. Your comfort zone may be different.
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Old 05-16-2021, 10:00 AM   #54
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F250 is plenty

With first hand experience on that size Airstream (and larger) you can be confident the F250 is plenty. One of the best purchases I ever made was the F250 6.7 turbo diesel. Depending on your particular use / environment and how much wear you want on the TV, you might find the diesel is worth it. I have a friend with the 6+ gasoline and a fifth wheel (moderate size) and he loves his rig too. We cruise along 1500 rpm on the flat roads, engine nice and cool, and in the mountains (very common for us) the turbo powers it smoothly. The torque is the real magic - ability to maneuver precisely in tight spots or gain speed (or control it) when needed. Translates to safety and performance. I am moving up to F350 turbo diesel, but not because of the Airstream. We have other heavier equipment for ranching and recreation.
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Old 05-16-2021, 10:01 AM   #55
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Towing Considerations

I see this post frequently and there are some things that folks do not talk about because the choice of trucks seems to be "bigger is better" most of the time. There is truth to that but only if you have the cash and the time to manage a tow vehicle and as well as daily drives. My thoughts are to acquire a vehicle that will do it all - and be safe on the road with your tow.

1. Trailer weights dry and loaded. While the planning and manufacturing weights are close there is no substitute for scales and real values. In the case of my rebuilt 1977 30ft Sovereign here are the weights loaded from the scale:

Scale 1:

(390kg) 859lbs front tongue weight
(1460kg) 3218lbs front axle
(1710kg) 3769lbs rear axle
(2520kg) 5555lbs both

Scale 2:

700lbs tongue
6961lbs Trailer

2. GCWR. Very important to pay attention to. In the case of my truck the GCWR is 12,500 lbs with a recommended maximum tongue weight of 750lbs. These are your safety limits and the insurance company will be paying attention to these when something goes wrong. If you are in side the GCWR (my GCWR is 12,146lbs - so I am in in the safe zone).

3. Highway. In my experience horsepower versus GCWR will determine your capacity to go up and down hills. Add in the number of available options in your transmission (I have 10 gears) your differential (power transfer) and suspension (big 4WD trucks are VERY stiff) and you will determine the requirements for your tow vehicle on the highway while towing. Gas mileage is also important and so is your towing speed. Remember that the amount of gas required goes algorithmic after 55 mph and gets pretty steep after 70mph with any tow (windage plays a greater role than weight). Smaller trucks get better gas mileage as the wind is broken over the front of the train. Tow length is also used to calculate your fares on ferries and height can play a role in many circumstances (we carry kayaks on top of the tow vehicle). A load bearing hitch with sway bars is also a must for comfortable highway travel with not too much sway.

4. City. Can you easily park and drive your monster truck around some small places with limited parking opportunities (California coast, Vancouver Island, National Parks, Florida Keys, etc)? Is the type of petrol you use available most places? In some northern communities diesel is hard to find. Getting gas can also be an issue with a big town in areas that are off piste and do not have big truck stops.

5. Weather and Terrain. Comfort is the biggest issue here so in my mind if you go big you will always be less stressed especially on the inter states (US 40 in particular) where the average big rigs transit at 75mph. Dessert travel with sand storms, ocean winds and blinding rain, mud and gravel roads in Alaska and Canada as well as parts of Colorado and western states, traffic and start/stopping, these all play a big part in your comfort level with your tow vehicle. The question is mute - if I had the choice I would pick the F-350 just to be happier at the end of an average travel day.

That said I tow with a 2019 Ranger!
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Old 05-16-2021, 10:02 AM   #56
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Finding a 350

We are currently looking for a new 350. Every dealer we have tried in AZ and midwest tell us that they cannot get them. Parts issues. If you can find a 250 or 350 or equivalent, buy it. There are no delivery times even. We tried NM AZ SD MN and IA.
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Old 05-16-2021, 10:45 AM   #57
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I have a 2000 Ford Excursion 6.8 liter V-10, 2 wheel drive with a 4:56 LS rear end, Banks headers and 5 Star tune. Went with the Z Code front coils (stiffest F-350 springs) and B Code rear leafs with Roadmaster Active Suspension and Airlift bags.
With the Bilstein 4600s both front and back, the ride is very firm, but not harsh. I have completely rebuilt this vehicle because I bought it brand new and am loyal, to a fault, to my vehicles.
The F-350/3500 dually is not overkill; a Peterbuilt, maybe. Anything that will give you a more stable platform, the better.
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Old 05-16-2021, 10:49 AM   #58
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Define “OverKill.” If you mean do you need a 350 to safely tow your 27 with plenty of power then for me, the answer is yes it is overkill. I donot need a 350 or a 250 for that matter with the correct F150 configuration, I could tow your AS anywhere I want.
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Old 05-16-2021, 10:58 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air0801 View Post
Hello, new friends -

First of all, thanks in advance for answering yet another newbie question about TVs. Those of you who answer posts about hitches and vehicles and packages, day after day, are truly doing the Lord’s work in keeping people like myself from dying in a fiery crash, causing a jackknife accident on a narrow road, or wasting money buying and then trading in the wrong vehicle..

If you’ve read this far, see above re: the Lord’s work. Here are my questions:

1. Are we missing something? If we can safely save $10K, great! I’ll buy beverages at the first caravan/meetup we attend. If you recommend we spend another $10K, thanks...and you’re buying the beverage.
2. Is an F350 for a 27’FBT like taking a baseball bat to a fly?
3. Do I need to be thinking about the hitch in this conversation or can any good hitch be added to the correct vehicle? If someone can direct me to a good explanation of how the whole system works together, I will study it carefully.

That’s it for now. Again, thank you!

Margo

Margo

I have to say Yes, overkill. I've driven F150, 250 and 350's and my own F150 has been plenty for my 33 ft Spartan, at times with a 600 lb ATV in the box.. I use air bags on the rear axle but it has been fine. Towing ratings have climbed year after year. I'd have no trouble with even an F250 or 150 with tow package.. not that much difference these days I think.. So much easier to live with when not towing, too.. comfort and servicing..
Enjoy.
Rick
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Old 05-16-2021, 11:40 AM   #60
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Be comfortable

My observation on this forum is, if you are having this conversation and are concerned, just go with the 350. You will always have reservations if you don’t. Need at this level has nothing to do with it. Be comfortable and happy. You may not always need the 350, but you will have it. I dont have an agenda here, I tow with an SUV. Just wanted to help you out of this dark rabbit hole of tow vehicles!
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