Intentional Over Weight

[tjdonahoe]

I have been running big trucks for 50 years, most of it with 4 axle dump truck pulling a 3 axle pup on a pintal hitch. My sister-in- law has a traverse, it is nice car, my wife has a smaller Toyota Venza.Both seem to be good for what they are,but I wouldn't even think about pulling my 31' as with either one. How long would the drive train last, trannys are $3500? , the engine under a load would be short lived, the small wheel bearings? In the big truck world we always say it takes iron to move iron, big loads ,big trucks.you don't see any little trucks pulling a 12 axle low boy trailer....I will stay with my ram 6.7, goes down the road at 63 mph at 13-1400 rpm easily, there is no such thing as too much money or too much horsepower.....Every one Have a Merry Christmas...

[StevieB]

Ok, one more time, ..... besides braking, structural integrity of the hitch system, overheating transmission, tranny and engine (drivetrain) warranty, insurance, ..... all of your real focus must lead to safety considerations for you and your passengers.

Before towing with your Traverse, please take the time to read the following "Trailering Guide" from General Motors / Chevrolet. This obviously has gone through their lawyers or it would not be in print. This may help you to individually decide if your Traverse is capable to tow your intended Airstream Trailer.

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...ring-Guide.pdf

BE SAFE
& Merry Christmas,
StevieB

[dkottum]

And do remember manufacturers will never lie to you about their product.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by dkottum

And do remember manufacturers will never lie to you about their product.

Hey Doug - hope all's well.

Now - are you suggesting something like - the Traverse is capable of towing 9000# but Chevy is lying about that? Seems to me if they're going to lie, they're going to go in the other direction and make things sound beefier than they really are....no?

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Hey Doug - hope all's well.

Now - are you suggesting something like - the Traverse is capable of towing 9000# but Chevy is lying about that? Seems to me if they're going to lie, they're going to go in the other direction and make things sound beefier than they really are....no?

Hi Steve, doing well and "on the road again".

A late model 25' Airstream will be more like 7000# fully loaded.

Of course they will lie to you if it is in their interest. And their interest is to cover as many possibilities any numbskull may impose on the vehicle. We don't have to be numbskulls.

For a properly set up Traverse towing the o.p.'s Airstream 25', no one explains it better than Andrew Thomson is his post.

[SeaLevel]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Ha!

Rental is the safest way out.

Just wanted to add one question on the rental idea. I wonder how much time you would take up making sure your hitch is properly adjusted each time you wanted to rent a truck?

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

I have been running big trucks for 50 years, most of it with 4 axle dump truck pulling a 3 axle pup on a pintal hitch. My sister-in- law has a traverse, it is nice car, my wife has a smaller Toyota Venza.Both seem to be good for what they are,but I wouldn't even think about pulling my 31' as with either one. How long would the drive train last, trannys are $3500? , the engine under a load would be short lived, the small wheel bearings? In the big truck world we always say it takes iron to move iron, big loads ,big trucks.you don't see any little trucks pulling a 12 axle low boy trailer....I will stay with my ram 6.7, goes down the road at 63 mph at 13-1400 rpm easily, there is no such thing as too much money or too much horsepower.....Every one Have a Merry Christmas...

Ok, so not sure if you read the part, that I plan to keep it only for three more years, which my extended warranty runs out. I'm just trying to buy time since trying to convince the wife of buying a new AS25 is one thing, but also asking for a new truck. She loves me, but not that much :-) That being said, aside from the wear and tear, would you do it?

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by SeaLevel

Just wanted to add one question on the rental idea. I wonder how much time you would take up making sure your hitch is properly adjusted each time you wanted to rent a truck?

Good point! But but but but, it would let me get it sooner :-) I went to Enterprise today for another reason, but I asked about renting truck. They said, the readily available rental department trucks do not have a hitch. It is a different department.

If anything, i will likely contact that same rental department and try to rent the same truck set up. But there are no guarantees. This might a be a problem, geez thanks for popping my balloon :-)

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by StevieB

Ok, one more time, ..... besides braking, structural integrity of the hitch system, overheating transmission, tranny and engine (drivetrain) warranty, insurance, ..... all of your real focus must lead to safety considerations for you and your passengers.

Before towing with your Traverse, please take the time to read the following "Trailering Guide" from General Motors / Chevrolet. This obviously has gone through their lawyers or it would not be in print. This may help you to individually decide if your Traverse is capable to tow your intended Airstream Trailer.

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...ring-Guide.pdf

BE SAFE
& Merry Christmas,
StevieB

Steve,

Thanks for the link. I am reading it, and one thing seems to contradict what others have said about controlling sway:

TO CONTROL SWAY
• Hold the steering wheel as steady as possible
• Release the accelerator but do not touch the brake pedal I read somewhere, you should accelerate. Any thoughts on that? I know it is outside this thread.
• Activate electric trailer brakes (if equipped) by hand, until the
sway condition stops
• Use the vehicle brakes to come to a complete stop Or should I read as doing all these things?

[Sbb]

You can rent trucks to tow your trailer from uhaul. I had a friend do that when they had tv issues on the road and had to be someplace for work.

No
No
No

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Really? You know John DeLorean? He's been dead for 11 years.

David North ,from here and in our car club after retiring from Gm. He worked under Delorean , the tempest , tornado and the 2 seater Buick were to his credit..

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by Sbb

You can rent trucks to tow your trailer from uhaul. I had a friend do that when they had tv issues on the road and had to be someplace for work.

No
No
No

How did your find that setup? Would your friend recommend that method?

[slowmover]

"Over" towing capacity is not over anything if axle and tire ratings are respected.

Nearly everyone with a big trailer was over in the 1960s and 1970s IF there was a rating. There usually wasn't. Not until the later 1960s.

And the vehicles -- cars -- were perfectly capable of 150k of service. And more. My family was hardly unique in that.

Unibody Chrysler products were almost always best. Drivetrain, suspension and brakes were superior.

Weight is only one piece of the puzzle for analyzing a stable combination.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

David North ,from here and in our car club after retiring from Gm. He worked under Delorean , the tempest , tornado and the 2 seater Buick were to his credit..

Ok, I believe he was a designer. He didn't put the muscle in muscle car....he made the muscle car look like a muscle car.

[dkottum]

Ask forum member Garfield.

Originally Posted by Garfield

Hi All!

A few months ago we traded our 2001 Yukon for a 2011 Traverse and had Can-AM RV set up for towing our 2001 25SS Safari and thought I'd post my experience to date.

To save some money (like $10k) we bought the Traverse as an 8-month old rental return w/32000 kms (20k miles). Its just a base LS model w/AWD and did not have towing package so everything of importance had to be added after market. If buying new, I would strongly recommend anyone planning to tow buy a model with the tow package because it's much cheaper and easier than adding after market.

I'm fortunate to live in the same City as Can-Am RV, and had them do all the work.

The Setup:

Since my Traverse does not have the tow package everything of importance needed to be added:

- installed Class III Hidden Hitch reinforced w/two steel angle irons that run forward underneath the spare tire and are welded onto the vehicles under body -- the spare tire had to be remounted slightly to accommodate and now hangs a little lower. The additional reinforcements stiffen the hitch and spreads the weight/towing forces over a wider area of the Traverse which is important for unibody vehicles. Note ideally a Class IV would have been used but apparently there are problems finding a Class IV that fits the Traverse well and can be reinforced properly -- something that Can-Am RV routinely does to most of its installs.
- installed Hayden #405 Ultra transmission cooler (Manufacturer says it doesn't fit the Traverse but it does if you don't mind scraped knuckles)
- installed 7-PIN Bargman wiring harness w/breaker and converter for battery charging.
- installed DirecLink brake controller. This is an inertial based controller plugs into the computer diagnostic port and has access to real-time vehicle data including transmission temperature. Has separate gain adjustments for both normal "highway" speeds and low speeds which is nice to have with the Hensley. The handset it modular and can be removed when not towing.

As per Can-AM's advice, since I don't tow in the southern US in the summer I didn't replace the rad. (The factory tow package apparently comes with a heavy duty rad, but I suspect all it has is an integrated transmission cooler).

I've been towing with a Hensley Arrow since our first 30 foot TT and would not consider towing with anything else. When setting up the Traverse I had to change the 2" drop stinger for a 4" drop. The 1000 lb spring bars were still OK but the barrel jacks need to be tightened up just short of the maximum (same as it was for my Yukon).

The Traverse has 17" of ground clearance to the bottom of the 2" receiver which drops to 14" after hooking up and adjusting the WD bars. The trailer sits level and there's maybe a 1" difference in wheel clearance on the Traverse (rear sits lower). When loaded up this will likely increase by a good inch, but I still have a little room left on the jacks to compensate if necessary. The Traverse's 1500+ lb cargo carrying capacity will certainly come in handy when throw the canoe on and stuff in the back.

Weight Summary:

2011 AWD Traverse Specs for reference:
Curb Weight = 4790 lbs
GVWR = 6411 lbs
Payload = 1524 lbs
GAWR(F) = 3196 lbs
GAWR(R) = 3527 lbs
Tow Capacity = 5200
GCVWR = 9990 lbs


Actual CAT scale weights (loaded Traverse and trailer, ready to camp):
Front Axle = 2800 lbs (88% max)
Rear Axle = 3260 lbs (92% max)
GVWR = 6060 lbs (95% max)
GCVWR = 11660 lbs (117% max)

So I'm over GM's recommended max tow rating by 17%, but am under the most important ones. IMO "tow rating" is more of a manufacturers recommended guideline than anything else, but certainly due diligence and regular maintenance will be required.


Initial Road Test:

We took the trailer down the local highway and after some experimenting set the DirecLink to +16 for towing normal speed and -3 for low speed. With the Hensley the trailer handled very well, as expected.

When driving to Can-AM for the final tweak of the setup I didn't have the spring bars tightened enough and noticed some porpoising but all sign of that was gone after they were tightened up. I did notice a hint of little side-to-side wobble when making sudden direction changes which was likely due to the mushy OEM 'P' tires that were only inflated to 32 PSI at the time. I'll inflate to 40 PSI for towing in the future. I have no plans to replace the tires with low-profile high performance tires at this time as the Hensley is very effective on the highway.

The power was very good. Off the line it was peppier than my old 4-spd 5.3L Yukon which was always slow to get going from 0-25kph but picked up when it entered it's power band. The Traverse revs high off the mark but gets up to speed faster -- which I credit the VVT and 6-speed tranny.

Afterwards my DW and I took short cruise down HWY 402. Acceleration to highway speed was very good, overall not dissimilar to the old Yukon. We quickly got it up to 110 kph (69MPH) in light traffic (a little faster than I normally tow) were the Traverse was happily pulling along in 5th at 2500 RPM). There was a very slight cross wind but that was all. When we came to a hill the transmission would quickly drop down to 4th and RPMs jumped up to 3500. Although I generally tow a little slower around 105 kph, I think this behaviour is what I can expect much of the time -- that is the Traverse will drop down a gear pretty quickly when it want's to. At the same speed the Yukon would tend to stick in 3rd gear at 2700 RPM for a longer period before dropping down to 2nd, which is understandable since it did have more torque and was running at higher RPM's.

If you're interested, here's another persons experience towing a 30 foot Airstream with an Enclave...

RV Lifestyle - Hitch Hints

First (short) Trip Experience:

Early indications from a test drive our first 3-hour round trip on HWY 401 (express way) is positive.

As indicated earlier I'm very pleased with the power available in town -- the Traverse's VVT and 6-speed transmission really puts out the torque "off the line" (pulling away from a stoplight) as compared to my old 2001 Yukon. Nice.

On the highway I'm able to cruise at 100 kph (62 MPH) doing 2200 RPM in 5th gear in "normal" conditions, keeping up with transports. The only time it want's to drop down to 4th gear (3200 RPM) is on an incline and/or into a stiff headwind. I just set the transmission to "L"ow and which locks out 6th and forget it.

Even with the excellent Hensley hitch, I'm totally amazed how well this rig tracks down the highway. Of course the Hensley eliminated trailer-induced sway completely, but the bow-wave of passing big rigs would still affect my old Yukon and require some steering input -- and this even though I upgraded my Yukon's OEM P tires to LT's. In comparison, and even with my Traverse's OEM P tires, most times NO steering input is required when being passed by big rigs...it's just as if they aren't there. Amazing. The only thing I can but this down to is the superior aerodynamics of the Traverse compared the the box-shaped Yukon, the aerodynamic shape of the Airstream and of course the Hensley. Very impressive.

As for mileage, so far I'm averaging 12 MPG (US) at 100KPH (62 MPH). I have to say that I was kind of hoping for something better, but it is what it is. The good news that my Traverse is capable of delivering 23 MPG on highway solo, which is much better than my old Yukon.

According to the DirecLink controller the transmission temp maxed out at 150 degrees F -- ambient temp was around 55 F at the time.

Cheers!

Obligatory Pic:

[cazual6]

DK, you are giving hope. my Traverse is a 2012 with a tow package. Can you PM me Garfields to PM. I have to find out how to make the same mods. Seems like everyone can be wrong then eh? I got roughly three months to research. thank you

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by cazual6

DK, you are giving hope. my Traverse is a 2012 with a tow package. Can you PM me Garfields to PM. I have to find out how to make the same mods. Seems like everyone can be wrong then eh? I got roughly three months to research. thank you

You've gone from asking the question to declaring you wouldn't pursue it to having hope you can do it and wanting to talk with someone else who did. Keep researching. Whatever you do, you need to be convinced it safely meets your needs and don't be swayed (no pun intended) by the myriad opinions (including mine) you'll find here and elsewhere. Whatever you do - know why you are doing it...

Because you mentioned the reason behind your 3 year timeframe (that's the period of your remaining warranty), you may want to check with your warranty provider on whether proposed modifications void your warranty - and - with whomever might do those mods as to their level of willingness and capability to stand behind the work both in terms of warranty coverage and potential liability (in other words, if your current warranty would be voided because of the mods you want, will the vendor doing the mods "step in" and provide warranty support for your vehicle? Will the vendor stand behind you should there be an accident and provide financial support for any liability you may incur that gets tied to the modification?)

Those issues would be important for me - they may or may not matter to you so as usual - free advice is worth everything you've paid for it...

Good luck.

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

You've gone from asking the question to declaring you wouldn't pursue it to having hope you can do it and wanting to talk with someone else who did. Keep researching. Whatever you do, you need to be convinced it safely meets your needs and don't be swayed (no pun intended) by the myriad opinions (including mine) you'll find here and elsewhere. Whatever you do - know why you are doing it...

Because you mentioned the reason behind your 3 year timeframe (that's the period of your remaining warranty), you may want to check with your warranty provider on whether proposed modifications void your warranty - and - with whomever might do those mods as to their level of willingness and capability to stand behind the work both in terms of warranty coverage and potential liability (in other words, if your current warranty would be voided because of the mods you want, will the vendor doing the mods "step in" and provide warranty support for your vehicle? Will the vendor stand behind you should there be an accident and provide financial support for any liability you may incur that gets tied to the modification?)

Those issues would be important for me - they may or may not matter to you so as usual - free advice is worth everything you've paid for it...

Good luck.

I think, which is a long shot, if Andrew responds to me. I don't know anyone in my area that would be an RV expert.

I can't imagine unless the dealership did the work, all warranty would be voided. Thus it is a long shot I will pursue this course. Just entertaining the idea.

Would you consider Andrews work to be worthy? Or just give up the whole idea all together?

[68 Overlander]

Before the internet, we use to show up at the camp sites and compare thoughts then. We did the math in our heads maybe the day before and we got there. I didn't read through everything above but of course many of us were over weight. That's when we learned, around the campfire, not from an arm chair forum. Just go bro and use common sense.

[cazual6]

This thread seems to parallel mine. Who has already done what I intended to do. Wanted to do

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...e-91344-3.html

Any additional comments after reading that thread?

Keep in mind, I just want to understand fully why.