I'm enjoying the tow vehicle debates...

[Collyn]

Originally Posted by jcl

You just used the word lunatic to describe their work.

RE:

Collyn, what are your thoughts about the trailer and hitch dealer that suggests its okay to hitch a 28-30 ft trailer to a mid sized German SUV that is 1000-2000 lbs over the tow capacity, 300 lbs over tongue limit, 1500 over GCRW and then loads the trailer to get 10% tongue weight, applies 120% FALR to get the rear axle 50 lb under its limit and significant sway support so the semis don't knock it off the road when the slip streams interact ? They tell the owner it's a great setup, 'cuz they tested on the slalom at 55 mph, while hard braking at 50 mph on a curving downhill interstate exit, and on the the winding 45 mph two lane country road.

If that really was claimed then I'd need to review my thinking about whoever claimed that.

Right now, however, it sems as if a quote has been condensed or whatever.

I prefer not to comment further without sighting the original - as misstating or in any way changing that original on a forum can be legally defamatory (at least in Australia - but surely too in the USA?).

Collyn
rvbooks.com

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Collyn

...If that really was claimed then I'd need to review my thinking about whoever claimed that.

Right now, however, it sems as if a quote has been condensed or whatever.

I prefer not to comment further without sighting the original - as misstating or in any way changing that original on a forum can be legally defamatory (at least in Australia - but surely too in the USA?).

Collyn
rvbooks.com

I think that is an appropriate course of action. I don’t think it is professional to comment without more details. To be fair, you were set up by bayoubiker who was going for a “gotcha”. He has been routinely dismissive of the professional work done by CanAm, and he left out key details in his “example”, which isn’t actually a statement but more a mashup of allegations.

Sort of like this entire thread, which started off with an example of a Buick Encore towing, an example hat appears to have been entirely fabricated to try and make a point.

I have visited and met with CanAm and do find their work to be top quality.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

Collyn, what are your thoughts about the trailer and hitch dealer that suggests its okay to hitch a 28-30 ft trailer to a mid sized German SUV that is 1000-2000 lbs over the tow capacity, 300 lbs over tongue limit, 1500 over GCRW and then loads the trailer to get 10% tongue weight, applies 120% FALR to get the rear axle 50 lb under its limit and significant sway support so the semis don't knock it off the road when the slip streams interact ? They tell the owner it's a great setup, 'cuz they tested on the slalom at 55 mph, while hard braking at 50 mph on a curving downhill interstate exit, and on the the winding 45 mph two lane country road.

Alternatively, we could consider the work of a professional tow setup shop, in business for decades, that configured the following combination:

* 27-28 foot Airstream trailer
* Euro SUV modified for improved towing performance to increase towing capacity beyond the factory rating
* additional analysis of the combination based on tens of thousands of combinations set up (lots of data points available, eg less focus on tv wheelbase and more focus on the ratio of rear overhang to wheelbase)
* modified hitch receiver with additional bracing to allow a higher tongue weight than the stock receiver, and correct WD functioning wrt FALR
* modified ball mount shortened to reduce rear overhang
* minimum 10% tongue weight, not created by loading the rear of the trailer so as to increase the moment of inertia, but rather by lightening the tongue with the use of lighter propane tanks, lighter batteries, relocating batteries to be over the trailer axles, etc, as applicable in various cases
* TV front axle and rear axle loading within manufacturers specs, as with tire ratings
* quality WD equipment, properly set up, tuned, and road tested
* full instructions to owners so that they can be confident in their setup
* slalom, emergency braking, and skid pad testing as required

Of course this example is a hypothetical, as was the above.

Literally thousands have voted on this. They are happily enjoying safe towing.

Then there are the “You can’t do that!” crowd. It is perfectly fine that they want to tow with a different setup. But they seem determined to tell others what they can’t do. Despite objective evidence to the contrary.

[Ultraclassic]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

^2 the hitch threads are the very best. All you have to do is throw out a (slightly) controversial comment and sit back with the popcorn. [emoji23]

Awesome comment

[Ultraclassic]

Hey I Don't see his safety chains!

Originally Posted by Dennis C

Yeah, some people define that point differently than others.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by Collyn

RE:

Collyn, what are your thoughts about the trailer and hitch dealer that suggests its okay to hitch a 28-30 ft trailer to a mid sized German SUV that is 1000-2000 lbs over the tow capacity, 300 lbs over tongue limit, 1500 over GCRW and then loads the trailer to get 10% tongue weight, applies 120% FALR to get the rear axle 50 lb under its limit and significant sway support so the semis don't knock it off the road when the slip streams interact ? They tell the owner it's a great setup, 'cuz they tested on the slalom at 55 mph, while hard braking at 50 mph on a curving downhill interstate exit, and on the the winding 45 mph two lane country road.

If that really was claimed then I'd need to review my thinking about whoever claimed that.

Right now, however, it sems as if a quote has been condensed or whatever.

I prefer not to comment further without sighting the original - as misstating or in any way changing that original on a forum can be legally defamatory (at least in Australia - but surely too in the USA?).

Collyn
rvbooks.com

It was a representation of what customers said they were told or advised so it would be best considered hearsay. You treated it properly in your initial response as a hypothetical since no particular vendor was named or intended. As you surmised, this kind of thing occurs often.

It was jcl that made improper assumptions that it was targeted. And he is incorrect about those assumptions, as I have mentioned several times that I have not had any occasion to disagree with any of CanAm's written technical advice.

It is interesting that some here do seem to think CanAm advises vehicle owners to exceed capacity by up to 30%, again I have not seen or heard them do so and I rather doubt they do.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

It was a representation of what customers said they were told or advised so it would be best considered hearsay. You treated it properly in your initial response as a hypothetical since no particular vendor was named or intended. As you surmised, this kind of thing occurs often.

It was jcl that made improper assumptions that it was targeted. And he is incorrect about those assumptions, as I have mentioned several times that I have not had any occasion to disagree with any of CanAm's written technical advice.

It is interesting that some here do seem to think CanAm advises vehicle owners to exceed capacity by up to 30%, again I have not seen or heard them do so and I rather doubt they do.

The references to slalom tests, and braking on off ramps, were your giveaways. I gave you that article link.

Is anybody else modifying and setting up Euro SUVs like this? Given that people travel from places like Texas to Ontario to avail themselves of the service and expertise, I suspect not.

You should check all the written descriptions of modified minivans towing 27 foot and up Airstreams. Given that these vehicles were typically only ever supplied with 3500 lb factory hitches, they would typically represent towing loads 100% over factory hitch ratings. Not once, but innumerable times. Pro tip: they aren’t exceeding vehicle capacity, they are exceeding stock hitch capacity. But then, they aren’t using the stock hitch. So there is that.

[BayouBiker]

I don't recall mentioning vans, let me check........ nope.

Presumed customers posting here (again second hand) report slalom cones and road tests. Suspecting something is the same as assuming something, and maybe that works for some people.

At the end of the day, Collyn and I generally agree exceeding OEM limits by 20-30% is a bad and risky recipe and not because they can't competently traverse a slalom course or feel nice under normal driving conditions.

[Dennis C]

Wow, sorry I’ve missed the last few days of this thread! It has generated some discussion! I’m out camping right now, and I haven’t had reliable WiFi, or the inclination to check my iPad. FWIW, my 1/2 ton GMC Denali has towed my International 23FB like a boss all week!

[Collyn]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

I don't recall mentioning vans, let me check........ nope.

Presumed customers posting here (again second hand) report slalom cones and road tests. Suspecting something is the same as assuming something, and maybe that works for some people.

At the end of the day, Collyn and I generally agree exceeding OEM limits by 20-30% is a bad and risky recipe and not because they can't competently traverse a slalom course or feel nice under normal driving conditions.

Essentially, anything that degrades stability in turn decreases the speed at which a rig is likely to sway - and particularly that so-called 'critical speed' at and above which recovery from terminal oversteer is impossible. That critical speed for a typical (sanely laden) USA trailer towed by a vehicle of much the same weight is likely to be at or above about 65 mph.

The above does not for a moment imply you will sway out of control if or above that speed. It does however decrease your ability to correct the rig (by applying trailer braking only) if swaying does set in.

Collyn
rvbooks.com

[OTRA15]

. . . speaking of sway . . . away we go!



PS -- Post # "all is one!"

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by jcl

SNIP.....
I have visited and met with CanAm and do find their work to be top quality.

Granted, it may be 'top quality', but if what they do is not what YOU want or are comfortable with whats the point?

This is the interweb, everyone's a 'professional', let's deal with it.👍

TETO.

You stay safely in your lane, I'll stay safely in mine.


Bob
🇺🇸🇦🇺🇨🇦

[T2plt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cMg42sW6NU

I found this gem on a thread a few years back. Airstream handling tests with Porsche Cayenne Turbos. I found it informative, and maybe you will as well.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Granted, it may be 'top quality', but if what they do is not what YOU want or are comfortable with whats the point?

This is the interweb, everyone's a 'professional', let's deal with it.👍

TETO.

Exactly. I don’t try and sell people who want a heavier truck on towing with a more moderate SUV. But I do support those who express that they want to, in figuring out how to do it safely.

So much of what is posted in these threads is people with a particular preference expressing that others should do as they do. I don’t even think the heavy truck crowd know they are doing it.

Look at the current thread on towing with a half ton. That requirement is in the thread title, and the OP posted why that is their preference. They then got a series of posts telling them why they are wrong.

[BayouBiker]

I wonder how folks who are unable to figure static and dynamic instabilities can know if a vehicle combination is safe for US highway conditions except by following OEM guidance.

[Kevin245]

This thread is closed.