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Old 09-22-2020, 03:19 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
I wonder what people who apply a court of law reasonableness test would find negligent?

1)Those who tow under the manufacturers US weight and load guidelines (towing, Combined weight and axle weight) and travel at or near US legal limits of 65-70 mph

2) Those who tow well over the manufacturers US weight and load guidelines but keep their speed closer to 60 mph.


#2 - the specs are designed to tow at posted legal limits. If your over weight and have an issues Iíd bet your at fault per the example above. Iím not an attorney but have been involved with lots of contracts where the details matter.
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Old 09-22-2020, 03:20 PM   #82
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I think youíre absolutely right. I believe the post that cited this case was to bring up the point that there is a legal risk to exceeding manufacturers specs re: towing...

I choose to err on the side of caution anyway. I tow our 27FB with a Ram 3500 that is serviced on the severe duty maintenance schedule. I have tires and brakes replaced before theyíre worn out (and I keep receipts and a notebook on each vehicle). I have found that doing things on the cheap can get to be pretty expensive (not to mention the risk to humans). Good faith is very important .
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Old 09-22-2020, 05:16 PM   #83
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Further if the decision stands, I believe it becomes part of case law (disclaimer: Iím not a lawyer either&#128512.
Not only am I not a lawyer, but I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express. However, I don't think anything becomes case law unless it is appealed. It is the appeal decision that becomes precedent.
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Old 09-22-2020, 07:52 PM   #84
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I prefer to combine personal protection with my tow vehicle...
While that (if you will excuse the pun) is 'overkill' Airstream owners do have an unusual problem.

It is that Airstream has got the products spot-on from a stability point of view. This is far from the situation in Australia - where some trailers should not even be on the market. As a consequence, the more astute buyers here tend to be more cautious re the weight and length they tow. We also have the not-for-profit Caravan Council of Australia that acts for owners with issues.

The problem is thus: if you have stability issues with an Airstream (that may not be apparent in normal usage) then you are doing something wrong.

I have the impression that not all owners realise that it not that good an idea to have a dog with a tail heavier(and/or much longer) than the rest of that dog. Let alone one that runs faster than is prudent.

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Old 09-22-2020, 08:50 PM   #85
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Not only am I not a lawyer, but I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express. However, I don't think anything becomes case law unless it is appealed. It is the appeal decision that becomes precedent.
Like I said. Iím not a lawyer😀
Case law or not this is a case where someone was successful in using TV specs against an RVer in an accident. Iíve heard it speculated on this forum about legal liability and never put much stock in it. Now it happened.
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:54 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by 21Airstream View Post
I choose to err on the side of caution anyway. I tow our 27FB with a Ram 3500 that is serviced on the severe duty maintenance schedule. I have tires and brakes replaced before theyíre worn out (and I keep receipts and a notebook on each vehicle). I have found that doing things on the cheap can get to be pretty expensive (not to mention the risk to humans). Good faith is very important .
Yeah, me too. I tow my 28í with an F350, watch my speed and following distance. This is supposed to be fun.
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:35 PM   #87
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Collyn, what are your thoughts about the trailer and hitch dealer that suggests its okay to hitch a 28-30 ft trailer to a mid sized German SUV that is 1000-2000 lbs over the tow capacity, 300 lbs over tongue limit, 1500 over GCRW and then loads the trailer to get 10% tongue weight, applies 120% FALR to get the rear axle 50 lb under its limit and significant sway support so the semis don't knock it off the road when the slip streams interact ? They tell the owner it's a great setup, 'cuz they tested on the slalom at 55 mph, while hard braking at 50 mph on a curving downhill interstate exit, and on the the winding 45 mph two lane country road.
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Old 09-23-2020, 12:59 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
Collyn, what are your thoughts about the trailer and hitch dealer that suggests its okay to hitch a 28-30 ft trailer to a mid sized German SUV that is 1000-2000 lbs over the tow capacity, 300 lbs over tongue limit, 1500 over GCRW and then loads the trailer to get 10% tongue weight, applies 120% FALR to get the rear axle 50 lb under its limit and significant sway support so the semis don't knock it off the road when the slip streams interact ? They tell the owner it's a great setup, 'cuz they tested on the slalom at 55 mph, while hard braking at 50 mph on a curving downhill interstate exit, and on the the winding 45 mph two lane country road.
It sounds like many an Australian dealer that makes equally lunatic claims. We have much the same problems - anything for a sale.

The only difference is that Australia has rules that apply to such grotesque examples and the vendor can be sued under our consumer protection regulations. These include that a product must be suitable for the purpose for which it was sold.

The example you quote is (in my opinion) a mobile accident awaiting the circumstances for it to manifest. I appreciate any victim can then sue - but I feel there is case addressing such issues at source. Here it seems it can only be via legislation.

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Old 09-23-2020, 07:28 AM   #89
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You two are made for each other.

Collyn, perhaps you may want to read about CanAm and their towing expertise before making such pronouncements. Their results don’t match your colourful descriptions.

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:52 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by KK4YZ View Post
Yeah, me too. I tow my 28í with an F350, watch my speed and following distance. This is supposed to be fun.

Thatís the way I feel.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:38 AM   #91
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I prefer to combine personal protection with my tow vehicle...
Looks like a good solution for driving through metro Atlanta on the Interstate 😂
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:10 AM   #92
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A few weeks back I actually did have a root canal. Not nearly as painful as reading this thread.
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:28 AM   #93
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In a rollover as depicted in the previously posted video, does the trailer typically disconnect or does it stay attached? Are the rotational forces enough to separate the tow vehicle?
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:55 AM   #94
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In a rollover as depicted in the previously posted video, does the trailer typically disconnect or does it stay attached? Are the rotational forces enough to separate the tow vehicle?
I donít know what the split is, but I have seem plenty of examples where the trailer took the truck over as well. Including one tons, which some people think can control a trailer by virtue of their mass
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Old 09-23-2020, 03:29 PM   #95
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A few weeks back I actually did have a root canal. Not nearly as painful as reading this thread.
Since we appear to be in the middle of a thread-sway event, how about that Quebec Roll-over thread?

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f48...ec-153984.html






'tsway more fun!
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:08 PM   #96
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?

Regardless of vehicle, the prosecuting attorney will look and know whether you are overweight and UNSAFE and will win the case. The ridiculous vehicles that are being used in an overloaded condition cannot be excused, no matter their reasoning.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:04 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Collyn View Post
It sounds like many an Australian dealer that makes equally lunatic claims. We have much the same problems - anything for a sale.

The only difference is that Australia has rules that apply to such grotesque examples and the vendor can be sued under our consumer protection regulations. These include that a product must be suitable for the purpose for which it was sold.

The example you quote is (in my opinion) a mobile accident awaiting the circumstances for it to manifest. I appreciate any victim can then sue - but I feel there is case addressing such issues at source. Here it seems it can only be via legislation.

Collyn
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Insurance data confirms that it indeed happens and the occasional post here confirms it and yet so many seem blind to the obvious. I mean really, who can rationally argue the manufacturers engineers have the tow weight limits off by 20%-30% or more? You don't have to be trained in the math to see the obvious.

What I find most interesting are the convoluted just so stories that are used to justify going +20% over. My favorite is that argument that setup is the difference that allows such remarkable numbers. Setup makes things comfortable, and may mask inherent instability but it can't disappear it.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:04 PM   #98
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You two are made for each other.

Collyn, perhaps you may want to read about CanAm and their towing expertise before making such pronouncements. Their results donít match your colourful descriptions.

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/
I have long been aware of CanAm's expertise - but do not recollect their comments on the situation being described. I would, however, expect them to be much the same as mine.

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Old 09-23-2020, 09:15 PM   #99
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I have long been aware of CanAm's expertise - but do not recollect their comments on the situation being described. I would, however, expect them to be much the same as mine.

Collyn
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You just used the word lunatic to describe their work.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:18 PM   #100
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In a rollover as depicted in the previously posted video, does the trailer typically disconnect or does it stay attached? Are the rotational forces enough to separate the tow vehicle?
This issue is often raised. This is only conjecture, but as the overturning forces will be so strong it may just be an issue of whether or not the tow hitch allows 360 degree rotation.

The Australian experience is that if the trailer rolls it usually takes the tow vehicle with it. We have an unusual situation that a large number of rollovers occur along a 1500 mile long road in Queensland - and one company (Claytons Towing) picks up the remains from most.

The majority are twin axle caravans with water tanks mostly ahead of the axles. The tow ball mass thus varies with water usage. Most of the caravans are now being recalled to rectify this. I fear most of our caravan builders are light-years behind Airstream in producing a trail that is as stable as possible.

And like it not, that requires a laden tow vehicle that is at least as heavy as the laden trailer.

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