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Old 09-19-2020, 08:43 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis C View Post
Agreed!

My post was a bit “tongue in cheek”. I fall on the more conservative side of the towing vehicle debate.
I would call it the 'sane side' - that anyone, for example, would attempt to tow a long heavy trailer at speed by a shorter and lighter tow vehicle defies sanity.

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Old 09-20-2020, 03:34 AM   #42
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How about some pedal power?!
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Old 09-20-2020, 03:37 AM   #43
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:37 AM   #44
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To me, there's nothing to debate, you simply purchase a Chevrolet 2500 HD with all the towing and trailering
packages and stuff,,and hook up to ANY AS
you want and enjoy! no worries about anything
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Old 09-20-2020, 10:21 AM   #45
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You are too nice to give "high risk" labels to folks pulling a 33' with an Encore. But as our Governor said about people staying on the beach with an approaching hurricane, " you can't cure stupid". As we pilots say, altitude above you and runway behind you doesn't do you any good in an emergency. We call it margin of safety not risk tolerance.
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Old 09-20-2020, 10:26 AM   #46
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Only Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis C View Post
I'm pretty new to this site, although I've towed many trailers with a variety of tow vehicles of the years. I must say that I've found the debates on this site informative, but also quite amusing at times.

On one side of the argument, there are the people who aggressively argue that you can tow a Classic 33 FB with a Buick Encore, with no problem whatsoever. The Classic has a dry weight of 8,261 lbs. and a hitch weight of 1,175 lbs. The Encore has a max payload capacity of 1,018 lbs. and isn't recommended for towing. No matter, there will be somebody who argues that it's more than enough with a weight distribution hitch, and they've towed this exact combination over 50,000 miles over extreme mountain passes.

On the other side of the argument, there are the people who argue that an F350 Super Duty with a payload capacity of 7,850 lbs. and a max towing capacity of 37,000 lbs. will struggle to pull a Bambi 16RB with a dry weight of 3,000 lbs. and a hitch weight of 430 lbs. They'll argue that they've seen people struggle with this combination, and they need to consider an even bigger truck.

The thing that I find amusing is how strongly people feel about this topic. When you ask for opinions on an Internet forum, you'll most certainly get them. And you may not agree with them! I'm not directing this at any specific person or post, I'm just pointing it out as a general observation. My examples above are clearly exaggerated for effect, but they aren't that far from some of the things that I've seen here!

I think the debate centers on one major thing: risk tolerance. Some people are more conservative, and they want to stay within the recommendations of the manufacturer of their tow vehicle and their trailer. They don't want to push the limit. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that approach. Some people are more comfortable pushing or exceeding the limits, as they feel that the published limits are overly conservative. There's nothing wrong with that either, to a point.

This post is really just an early observation, including some Sunday afternoon babbling as I watch some NFL football. I find this site very useful and informative, and I love the entertainment value. Keep it up Air Forums!
I have also read the towing discussions, with a mixture of entertainment and dismay. Unlike most other discussions, this thread doesn’t actually help the reader seeking guidance on towing.
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Old 09-20-2020, 10:32 AM   #47
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Hilarious, and so true 😂😂😂
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Old 09-20-2020, 10:42 AM   #48
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Towing capacities are one thing, legal issues are another. We had an acquaintance (not a real friend) who had an accident towing a trailer with a small SUV who was well beyond its rated capacities.

The accident was not caused by my friend the other vehicle turned in front of him -- but he was found at fault and sued by the other driver. The court concluded. that his vehicle was not adequate and could not stop in time. He lost the law suit, the other at fault driver was awarded a considerable amount of money. He was also cited for reckless driving for not being able to control his vehicle.

Although his insurance company paid the claim - he was immediately dropped by his carrier and he was unable to get coverage for some time. His insurance on his other 2 vehicles increased by 50% as well.

So... capacities are not the same as he legal issues for towing with a vehicle not designed or rated for towing your trailer.
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Old 09-20-2020, 02:04 PM   #49
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And just like that, a thread about towing threads has become a towing thread!
Thats too funny. You won’t find humor like this on an Argosy forum
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Old 09-20-2020, 02:26 PM   #50
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Great post
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Old 09-20-2020, 05:23 PM   #51
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babbling...........wow
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Old 09-20-2020, 05:54 PM   #52
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It is quite amusing! Also, you will see some of the same people making the same point over and over again.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:22 PM   #53
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Generally because trailer owners make the same mistakes over and over again.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:35 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkowalyk View Post
Towing capacities are one thing, legal issues are another. We had an acquaintance (not a real friend) who had an accident towing a trailer with a small SUV who was well beyond its rated capacities.

The accident was not caused by my friend the other vehicle turned in front of him -- but he was found at fault and sued by the other driver. The court concluded. that his vehicle was not adequate and could not stop in time. He lost the law suit, the other at fault driver was awarded a considerable amount of money. He was also cited for reckless driving for not being able to control his vehicle.

Although his insurance company paid the claim - he was immediately dropped by his carrier and he was unable to get coverage for some time. His insurance on his other 2 vehicles increased by 50% as well.

So... capacities are not the same as he legal issues for towing with a vehicle not designed or rated for towing your trailer.
[emphasis added]

Hopefully your excellent observations will not be lost in the middle of the chatter here IMO.

Thanks for your post,
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:49 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkowalyk View Post
Towing capacities are one thing, legal issues are another. We had an acquaintance (not a real friend) who had an accident towing a trailer with a small SUV who was well beyond its rated capacities.

The accident was not caused by my friend the other vehicle turned in front of him -- but he was found at fault and sued by the other driver. The court concluded. that his vehicle was not adequate and could not stop in time. He lost the law suit, the other at fault driver was awarded a considerable amount of money. He was also cited for reckless driving for not being able to control his vehicle.

Although his insurance company paid the claim - he was immediately dropped by his carrier and he was unable to get coverage for some time. His insurance on his other 2 vehicles increased by 50% as well.

So... capacities are not the same as he legal issues for towing with a vehicle not designed or rated for towing your trailer.
It sounds like your acquaintance was beyond his own capabilities. Unable to comment on the vehicle and trailer combination due to lack of details.

Likely contributing factors were speed relative to conditions, combination setup, vehicle condition, and trailer brake function.

But let’s blame the manufacturer’s rating. Sure, those other factors couldn’t possibly matter.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:58 PM   #56
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I am both interested but also disturbed when reading many posts (re towing) on this forum in that most people appear to quote only the unladen weight of the trailer.

In most cases the laden weight will be far greater - but not mentioned. Ditto, the manner of loading and the all-important tow ball mass, as both affect and determine the reasonably safe top towing speed.

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Old 09-20-2020, 07:12 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collyn View Post
I am both interested but also disturbed when reading many posts (re towing) on this forum in that most people appear to quote only the unladen weight of the trailer.

In most cases the laden weight will be far greater - but not mentioned. Ditto, the manner of loading and the all-important tow ball mass, as both affect and determine the reasonably safe top towing speed.

Collyn
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I don’t see that very often on this site. It is much more common for a poster to quote the maximum trailer GVWR on the assumption that they will always be loaded to the gunwales. Most of us have the option to take less junk along with us.

In this thread, the only reference to dry weight was the OP, and wasn’t a real example. He used that combination for comic effect. Do a search on this site for Buick Encore and this is the thread that comes up. Surely people didn’t think he was serious. If so, you’ve been had.
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Old 09-20-2020, 07:29 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
It sounds like your acquaintance was beyond his own capabilities. Unable to comment on the vehicle and trailer combination due to lack of details.

Likely contributing factors were speed relative to conditions, combination setup, vehicle condition, and trailer brake function.

But let’s blame the manufacturer’s rating. Sure, those other factors couldn’t possibly matter.
He stated directly the the court found that the vehicle combination was beyond its capability, the driver was considered reckless for putting the combination together and onto the road, why shift the blame? I don't see where the court found the manufacturer's rating to be faulty, sounds like the court concluded it was accurate. Those who seem to think they know better than the manufacturer what a vehicle is capable of may want to think twice.
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Old 09-20-2020, 07:36 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
It sounds like your acquaintance was beyond his own capabilities. Unable to comment on the vehicle and trailer combination due to lack of details.

Likely contributing factors were speed relative to conditions, combination setup, vehicle condition, and trailer brake function.

But let’s blame the manufacturer’s rating. Sure, those other factors couldn’t possibly matter.
His example was not about what or who caused the accident. It was about who the court held accountable and why. If the court didn't take any of those other factors into consideration, then they didn't matter at all.
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:03 PM   #60
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His example was not about what or who caused the accident. It was about who the court held accountable and why. If the court didn't take any of those other factors into consideration, then they didn't matter at all.
His example was about a driver that the court apparently found was unable to control his vehicle. We don’t know about any of the points I raised because he didn’t provide that info. So in the absence of that info, the conclusion was drawn that the rated capacity was the cause.

If the anecdote was that an acquaintance was towing a heavy trailer at a reckless speed with a poor set up and malfunctioning brakes, he could similarly have found to have been reckless. But some may focus on the tow rating. Why?

The point was made that he couldn’t stop in time. Why is that a tow vehicle capability issue? No trailer brakes? Malfunctioning brakes? Or just travelling too fast?
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