If you're the type that wants to keep truck'in

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Pillow

Toyotas are an appliance with no soul. That is the trade-off in being able to neglect the cars for sustained periods and it still function properly.

Toyota doesn't have a soul. But Kia does, several models in fact

Seriously, my '80s Hilux pickup had lots of soul. So did the 2000GT. And the new Celica (built by BMW for Toyota, based on the Z4) appears to have lots of soul.

Not may pickups have a soul. I think they might be the definition of an appliance.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by jcl

Toyota doesn't have a soul. But Kia does, several models in fact

Seriously, my '80s Hilux pickup had lots of soul. So did the 2000GT. And the new Celica (built by BMW for Toyota, based on the Z4) appears to have lots of soul.

Not may pickups have a soul. I think they might be the definition of an appliance.

Not Celica, but the new Supra!

As for soul; that new Avalon has 301 hp, a fantastic interior and handling to boot.
The new Camry is pretty trick as well

I did love the 80's compact Toyota pick ups and Nissan hardbody's; especially the 2.4L diesel 1 ton Toyota compacts.....an indestructible appliance.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[Pillow]

Talking trash about a 760 Redblock - sacrilege! LOL I have two Volvos as well in the fleet. An XC70 that my daughter drives and a 960 Wagon that is getting an LS V8 heart transplant (ultimate sleeper).

As for soul; that new Avalon has 301 hp, a fantastic interior and handling to boot.
The new Camry is pretty trick as well

The new Avalon interior is a huge step up from its geriatric predecessor, but only 301HP is unacceptable in the luxury segment. The alien abduction exteriors just aren't my thing either (same with Honda), many of the newer models across the board are getting too edgy without a clean line or function to back it up IMO.

I'm amazed no one has brought up the Land Cruiser... That is THE Toyota beast! If I had to buy a Toyota that would be it. Simple design and over engineered for the global market an Overlanders dream car.

But here is what I like for a TV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9tIiM6bqv0

[Mollysdad]

Of the top 15 vehicles that owners kept the longest, the number of American manufacturers included was..............zero.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Of the top 15 vehicles that owners kept the longest, the number of American manufacturers included was..............zero.

Ford Explorer: 8.9 years
Honda Accord: 8.4 years
Toyota Camry: 8.0 years
Honda Civic: 7.9 years
Jeep Grand Cherokee: 7.8 years
Toyota Corolla: 7.7 years
Honda CR-V: 7.6 years
Dodge Ram/Ram 1500: 7.5 years
Chevrolet Silverado 1500: 7.4 years
Ford F-150: 7.4 years
GMC Sierra 1500: 7.3 years
Nissan Altima: 7.2 years
Hyundai Elantra: 7.2 years
Nissan Sentra: 7.1 years
Toyota RAV4: 7.1 years
Ford Escape: 6.9 years
Chevrolet Malibu: 6.6 years
Chevrolet Equinox: 6.0 years
Ford Fusion: 5.7 years
Nissan Rogue: 5.3 years

[Pillow]

This may also be a side effect of Lease vs Buy and which cars the people who hold cars purchase for the long run.

[KK4YZ]

i generally buy low mileage used vehicles. When I decided to buy a truck a couple of years ago I went on consumer reports which has pretty detailed reliability stats on used vehicles.

Tundra was #1. RAM was dead last.
Just confirmed my Toyota experience. Case closed

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

i generally buy low mileage used vehicles. When I decided to buy a truck a couple of years ago I went on consumer reports which has pretty detailed reliability stats on used vehicles.

Tundra was #1. RAM was dead last.
Just confirmed my Toyota experience. Case closed

All I did was do a Bing search on this statement.

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Of the top 15 vehicles that owners kept the longest, the number of American manufacturers included was..............zero.

I have to ask myself WT* is going on here!

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Tuco

All I did was do a Bing search on this statement.



I have to ask myself WT* is going on here!

You know the phrase that statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics?

The original list was the top 15 cars that owners keep for 15 years or longer. Vehicles that were bought new, kept for 15 years (well above the average), and then sold. The study is here:

https://www.iseecars.com/cars-kept-15-years-2019-study

That isn't the same as the question in the second study, which was, what is the average length of ownership for popular vehicles. They are ranked by the # of years on average.

That study is here: https://www.iseecars.com/cars-kept-longest-2018-study

The first study measures the number of vehicles, by brand. The second study measures the years, it doesn't measure the brand.

Both studies came from a used vehicle sales site. Various news organizations made up their own headlines, often inaccurately.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by jcl

You know the phrase that statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics?

I think the saying is “Figures don’t lie, but liars figure”. So true 😎

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by jcl

You know the phrase that statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics?

I wish I had never gone to that site, my head hurts!

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by Pillow

The new Avalon interior is a huge step up from its geriatric predecessor, but only 301HP is unacceptable in the luxury segment. The alien abduction exteriors just aren't my thing either (same with Honda), many of the newer models across the board are getting too edgy without a clean line or function to back it up IMO.

I'm amazed no one has brought up the Land Cruiser... That is THE Toyota beast! If I had to buy a Toyota that would be it. Simple design and over engineered for the global market an Overlanders dream car.

The thing about Toyota is that when they make a car, they think in decades, not years. Yes, you can get a lot more power out of a 3.5L V6.....but for how long, before something big goes boom. To Toyota, that is unacceptable; the Avalon 301 hp 3.5 V6 is designed to last decades, not until just after the warranty is up.

I have a Toyota Landcruiser, a BJ-60 in the backyard, (BJ is the 3.4L Toyota/Hino 4 cylinder normally aspirate diesel). I also plan on buying a new Toyota Landcruiser LC79 4 door crew cab 1 ton diesel pick up to take to Belize. So yes, I do love Landcruisers.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[TouringDan]

Pillow

Love your comment about the alien abduction exteriors on the Toyota and Honda cars. I completely agree and I don’t like them.

I have a 2008 Tundra with a payload of 1,475 lbs and I get 13.5 mpg towing my 66 Airstream. I love this truck, but it is HUGE. I will never sell it.

I prefer smaller vehicles. My next TV will indeed be a Porsche Cayenne or possibly a Macan. It will be an S version with the turbocharged 6 cylinder. It will probably be a 3 year old CPO model to make it affordable.

Dan

[Pillow]

To Toyota, that is unacceptable; the Avalon 301 hp 3.5 V6 is designed to last decades, not until just after the warranty is up.

I see where you are coming from. But IMO if a car can make it to 200k+ it has done its job and is fully depreciated.

From my experiences Toyota is not the only brand that can make the 200k+ club with ease. I've had a Mazda, Acura, Honda, Cadillac, and GMC all go over 200k before selling them. The Mazda died at 215k and was driven to the junkyard. My current DTS has 192k on it and going strong.

And everyone knows that guy with an old car with 300 or 400k+ that is beaten to death and the guy just wants to see how far it will go before catastrophic failure... Meanwhile for the last 100k+ they have been rolling in a completely destroyed interior with trash all over the place... No normal person wants to ride or roll like that.

Just like any mechanical item, if you take care of it, it will take care of you.

Add: Sadly no 79 Series for us in the States! I quite enjoy the Aussie show 4WD Action with their kitted up LCs doing work!

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by AldeanFan

My 2005 Tundra is in what we refer to as the “permanent collection” along with the mustang my wife and I took on our first date and my dad’s mustang that has been around since 1983. Never will be sold.

The tundra has bee and continues to be an amazing vehicle. Should turn over 150,000km this year, likely while pulling the Safari.
1 battery,
1 muffler,
1 O2 sensor,
Brakes once
One brake line

I’d hook up today and tow till I run out of road with no hesitation.

Not impressed ar all. We had a 1992 Tahoe in the fleet. Ran it for 238 k miles with only a fuel pump replacement. Than the super bought it for his kid. Batteries , brakes and general maintenance.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by AldeanFan

I disagree,
If people bought cars with their heads instead of their hearts then we would all drive a Toyota Corolla.

Buyers are influenced by advertising, price, brand loyalty and many other things.

Where I live most people drive General Motors vehicle, not because they are he best, but because either they ora family member works in the GM plant.

People also buy new airstreams despite the known quality problems.

That’s not to say that buyers are stupid, just that there are many factors that influence a purchase decision other than product quality.

That's like saying we should all be hitching up with blonds.
Here we go with the Toyota crowd falling all over themselves.
Car and truck manufacturing is a global business. Many use the same subcontractors and suppliers.
I would be just as happy driving a RAM , GM as I am with my Ford. No one has a decisive leg up in this game.

[basecampbuds]

We love our 2001 Tundra, in spite of its 385,000 miles.

[Olscot]

Had to chuckle when I saw this. Tony sure knows how to stir up the pot. For those not old enough to remember in WW2 we proved we 'had' the best engineering and tech on the planet. Our central bank, the Federal Reserve, which is neither Federal or reserve, took control of our currency in 1913. It was decided that we needed to subsidize/rebuild Germany and Japan after the war so as not to repeat the same mistake after WW1. This was done at great expense to America and its workers and industry in the form of inflation that raised prices and wages to make it more difficult for us to compete in world markets. It should be fairly obvious that any people, given enough money, can build the best, most reliable product. We proved that when our money was free and tied to gold. Human nature being as it is most will still buy whatever is the least expensive tool to get the job done. Due to ForEx the big 3 have pretty much been put out of business. Now given one brand is fairly equal to another it comes down to personal preference. I, like other Harley riders, wouldn't ride anything else. I would not drive a brand new Toyota if given one. Whether it is better or not is not even part of the discussion. While we are all out 'streaming' we need to get what ever makes us comfortable, safe, and happy. Oh, I still farm with 100+ year old equipment as well. While I'll admit to being prejudiced, that new Nissan van with a Cummins diesel looks mighty hard to beat for a TV.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by Olscot

Had to chuckle when I saw this. Tony sure knows how to stir up the pot.

I resemble that remark!

I do love trolling Ford owners.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[Gene]

I’m wondering when we bought our Toyotas why they didn’t give us T-shirts saying “I’m with stupid”?

These threads have shown up for years about Toyotas or Japanese cars and trucks. Some people have a really bad attitude about Japanese vehicles. Maybe they rode in a 1970 Subaru or Datsun. Lots of people just do the same thing over and over and then justify it with whatever they can think up. We have owned Toyotas that were “Limited” or somewhat basic. Never saw they performed any differently whether they had leather or cloth seats. We put sheepskins on cloth seats and that is more comfortable and warmer in winter than leather (most “leather” today is vinyl). I can’t remember when we last had window cranks—maybe on a ‘99 Tacoma. I have found that luxury models come with huge price increases and are not wise to buy even though we have had fancy Toyotas like a 4Runner Limited and a Sequoia.

Toyotas are not that sexy looking (with the exception of our FJ Cruiser, an SUV so ugly it is quite appealing). The member of the Toyoda family now running the company wants sexier vehicles and has not emphasized trucks. The newer Lexus may be sexy to him, but has the most hideous grill we have ever seen. Reliability seems to be holding up. No vehicle is sexy dead by the side of the road and Toyotas have never let me down.

People keep saying a 1/2 ton truck cannot tow a medium sized Airstream. I have towed a 25’ up Vail or Monarch Passes at 65. Like with any half ton, you have to be careful with payload, but we did it for 63,000 miles all over the US and Canada. At 126,000 miles the truck is still performing like new. Plenty of others report similar experiences, but some people just won’t believe it because they cannot let go of what they want to believe.

Fords have been popular for a long time, Dodge/Ram emphasizes toughness and appeals to macho men, Chevy has their fans. Toyota does little to promote their truck line. The Tundra used to be the truck with the highest percentage of US made parts, maybe it still is. So drive your Fords and Chevies and Rams, we Tundra owners can offer you a tow when you break down. If you want to race, a stock Tundra can get to 60 in 6.5 seconds.

And the Tundra interior at 11 years looks almost new. The stuffing isn’t coming out of the seats, the floor hasn’t rusted through, everything works including that button that raises and lowers the windows and the headliner is still attached. The Tundra is not perfect, but is the best truck we’ve ever had even if it is really big and hard to park sometimes.