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Old 11-22-2018, 11:15 AM   #81
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Tundra and gas mileage

I tow a 2018 22FB with a 2014 Tundra SR5 V8 5.7 long bed. I get between 16.1 an 15.9 mpg. This is the average with and without the trailer in tow. Full disclosure, Iíve been in Florida so elevation gain is null.
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Old 11-22-2018, 02:14 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by VernDiesel View Post
To ptechs points. Mmmn yes & no IMO. Torque gets you up the hill. HP determines how fast. It has to have enough torque to pull the gear if and only then will the amount of HP available at the required torque rpm will it determine how fast.
Hi Vern. You're almost right. Torque at the wheels is what gets you up the hill.

The measure of HP includes torque and rpm. As an engineer, these concepts are ironclad, and not subjective. We don't engineer and launch spacecraft on math and concepts that aren't concise.
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Old 11-22-2018, 02:50 PM   #83
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At one rest stop on I-80, I asked a 3/4 ton Cummins diesel Ram owner how many revs he experienced climbing the mountains 1800 to 1900. I limit my 4.6L F150 to 3,500 revs to assuage my fears the engine will blow up!! Anyone willing to run their gas engines on test trucks in attempt to keep the truck and heavy trailer at speed limit as the YOUTUBE channel TFL does on the IKE gauntlet? They nearly redline the engine climbing I-70 to Eisenhower tunnel?

Don't kid yourself to think that a diesel is not working hard at even 1800 rpm. On the contrary, diesels experience combustion chamber pressures more than twice that of a gasoline engine - hence the need for such a heavy builds. Diesels on the order of close to 200 bar (2900 psi). Versus gas that's closer to 80 bar (1160 psi). An engine is actually less stressed and cooler running with RPM, than grunting out torque which correlated to peak cylinder pressures. BTW, I engineer a platform that utilizes a diesel engine.

Consider the following dyno for the Tacoma 3.5L. The peak HP output at 3,500 rpm is 125HP. Versus peak at 6,000 rpm is 240HP. That's quite a difference! It's no wonder some people feel like their vehicles are under powered. Said another way, one has to learn how to use their tools, because a person that limits themselves in RPM is really not using the full capability of their vehicle.

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Not feeling confident in the vehicle to actually use its full capabilities is another question completely. Perhaps why so many like their Toyota's?

BTW, I live in the west with a 27FB. Anywhere I go, involves climbing serious grades that last for tens of miles. I can pass and accelerate at will on grade without towing with a 3/4 diesel. I have no want for more power, because even a diesel won't make appreciably more than what I have.
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:14 PM   #84
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If you want to know what the best vehicle for towing is, look at what the people that tow for a living use.....
There is a huge difference in what a vehicle is capable of, and what it does easily. If you are revving your engine to 5-6000 rpm to pull your load, you are going to tear up your vehicle. If you can pull the same load in the same circumstance, and rev 3000 rpm, you are in much better territory.
People that tow every day, use heavy duty vehicles, because they do not work as hard, and will last longer. This is not rocket science.....
If your vehicle is squatted by the tongue weight of your trailer, it is overloaded.
Just because you make some modification with air suspension, or some other aftermarket mod, does not mean that it is still not overloaded...….You are always better off with more vehicle than you need, rather than less.....that is, unless you like spending time on the side of the road, waiting on a tow truck, and ruining a vacation.
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Old 11-22-2018, 11:07 PM   #85
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Hi, one thing that I don't like about the 250/2500 to 350/3500 series trucks over my F-150 is that they are not only quite a bit heavier, but also sit a lot higher. Center of gravity being higher is not good.
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Old 11-23-2018, 07:58 AM   #86
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If size of the vehicle is an issue, you might want to check out the upcoming Ford Ranger that should be out this spring.
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Old 11-23-2018, 08:01 AM   #87
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mkcurtiss, As you may know I transport airstreams commercially. 490,000 miles nationwide all seasons. I agree spinning even the Toyota 5 to 6K with a load likely won’t make it happy long-term. My diesel normally tows 65 mph at 2100 and at most 3000 on steep grades.

I don’t have an HD but I don’t tow 10 K TTs either. Normally 6-7.5 K which the motor and 1/2 ton platform are comfortable with. Setting WDH / axle & tongue weight by scale results even the soft Ram 1500 doesn’t squat. I do also run an axle to frame airbag set up though. Not as a replacement for a WDH but as a compliment to it and not so much to level it but to improve the suspension control and ride. To your point Never any suspension or transmission issues. Also with turbo brake and TBC my truck brakes lasted 293k then 177K. Again right equipment plus proper setup makes for safe enjoyable towing & equipment longevity.
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Old 11-23-2018, 08:48 AM   #88
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'nuf said

If "A picture's worth a thousand words"...




https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...ercial.565420/
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:45 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkcurtiss View Post
If you want to know what the best vehicle for towing is, look at what the people that tow for a living use.....
There is a huge difference in what a vehicle is capable of, and what it does easily. If you are revving your engine to 5-6000 rpm to pull your load, you are going to tear up your vehicle. If you can pull the same load in the same circumstance, and rev 3000 rpm, you are in much better territory.
People that tow every day, use heavy duty vehicles, because they do not work as hard, and will last longer. This is not rocket science.....
If your vehicle is squatted by the tongue weight of your trailer, it is overloaded.
Just because you make some modification with air suspension, or some other aftermarket mod, does not mean that it is still not overloaded...….You are always better off with more vehicle than you need, rather than less.....that is, unless you like spending time on the side of the road, waiting on a tow truck, and ruining a vacation.
Yes, this high rpm thing is not at all comforting. I guess yes, maybe it is capable, but makes me cringe thinking in doing it I am never going to get the 2-300k I wanted out of my Toyota in doing so.
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:55 PM   #90
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If size of the vehicle is an issue, you might want to check out the upcoming Ford Ranger that should be out this spring.
My previous truck before the Taco was a Ranger. Really liked that truck and would've kept it but needed to change to 4 WD.

But this brings up another question that I alluded to in my original post regarding width of a full size 1/2 ton. With factory tow mirrors on a full size half ton, Ford, Ram, whatever, and given the width of our 23 is 8 feet, will that allow me to see the lanes next to me when towing. I cannot with my Taco and I have the clip on extension mirrors - no improvement at all (message me and I will gladly sell them).
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Old 11-23-2018, 06:54 PM   #91
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With my F-150, I can see down the sides of my 23FB and see in the lanes beside it with the tow mirrors extended.
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Old 11-23-2018, 06:58 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimms View Post
Yes, this high rpm thing is not at all comforting. I guess yes, maybe it is capable, but makes me cringe thinking in doing it I am never going to get the 2-300k I wanted out of my Toyota in doing so.


I donít believe you will be spending that much time in a high rpm situation where it will be affecting the life of your motor. I would guess that we might be talking about 1 or 2% of the time when you are towing up a significant grade where you need to operate the motor in the high rpm range.

Listen to the advice of the towing expert from Ontario.

Dan
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Old 11-23-2018, 07:15 PM   #93
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I don’t disagree with that damn unless he lives in the mountains. But the other side of that is if it’s pulling him down 20 mph that he may not be satisfied with that.
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Old 11-23-2018, 09:36 PM   #94
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Traditionalists are thrown off by numbers such as "6,000" rpm. It's worthwhile to consider this in context of the actual specific motor and its design envelop. To also understand that this powerband represents the reserve "on tap". It's never necessary to run the engine all the way to redline. Use as little or as much as you wish. Just understand that the power is actually there if and when one needs it.

If it makes any owners feel better about actually getting the most from their vehicles, for the 2GR-FKS motor that is fitted to the Tacoma, it's 6,200 rpm redline represents the lowest and most conservative spec in application. This same motor in various tunes is fitted to many other Toyota and Lexus vehicles, with redlines as high as 7,000 rpm. Toyota understanding that the Tacoma may be used in more demanding "work" scenarios, has done the due diligence in thresholds to ensure durability.

And know that this is Toyota, so even that 7,000 number is conservative for this particular motor architecture vs many other manufacturers that will run their motors "hotter" within their respective design envelopes. Yes, even those diesels. Especially those with their stupendous tq numbers. They don't "feel" like they are working hard, but absolutely are. Just in a different way.
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Old 11-23-2018, 11:11 PM   #95
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Lol that was "Dan"

6,200 pulled down to 25 mph the last couple miles up a long western grade? My sanity would blow. I'd get a better suited truck. That said we all have our own comfort and requirements levels. I've taken 8k trailers up a grade pulled down to 52 mph but passing semis at 3k with temps near ECM fuel reduction. Some would find that unacceptable for temps or speed. Some guys think they have to go 70 mph up the hill in the hammer lane passing cars. Lol burning up the credit card on fuel and repairs until wisdom sets in.
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Old 11-24-2018, 12:50 AM   #96
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You guys can generalize all you want with your "feelings". I'm at least making an attempt to provide objective data so one can make the judgement call. To that point, the data says, a Tacoma will blow the other small car based diesels out of the water. It will not break a sweat doing it, even if you feel like it can't handle it. The water temp won't move, your engine will stay strong and healthy, and you can wave buy to those "torquey" passenger car based diesel as you run by them up a hill, if you so choose.

I don't own a Tacoma, and I tow a much larger trailer with a larger Toyota gas motor. Yet it is the same "feelings" at play from all the diesel guys who brag about torque, efficiency, durability, power, handling... I'll let them play to their egos all they like as I know from engineering and real numbers that this couldn't be further from the truth. Especially the newer high tech stuff with all it's high maintenance and failure prone emissions components.

Fleet operators have realized this for awhile now. The real diesel reality is larger acquisitions costs, higher running costs with maintenance, more downtime, poor handling (yet good stability), etc...
https://www.government-fleet.com/156...ers-know-about

That said, to the OP, if your performance expectations are higher, any nice 1/2 ton will do the trick.
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Old 11-24-2018, 09:45 AM   #97
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Wow ptech I had no idea I was stepping on your nerve or that you are some kind of diesel hater. OP already made his judgement the lil Tacoma is too weak for his goals and is looking for a suitable replacement. Hence my suggestion per his goals to drive the three trucks & why. The first being your favorite the Tundra.

Towing AS over the western grades never had a Tacoma pass me let alone blow me away on a grade with a TT. And I normally only climb at 55. Come to think when seen they are in the truck lane with the max loaded semi. Your statements sounds like you went from "objective" to something less.

Soon there will be four newer fuel efficient small diesels to pick from guess you are going to be angry. We have lots of ED owners who came from a Tundra so I get the animosity if you somehow take it personally. No bones the Tundra is a great truck just too thirsty for the people who need to drive and tow big miles.

"to the OP, if your performance expectations are higher, any nice 1/2 ton will do the trick." Sure OP knows his thread is just trying to find some of the better candidates for his goals. Not about how much you like Toyota, gas trucks, or hate diesel.
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Old 11-24-2018, 09:56 AM   #98
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Do not need a diesel 3/4 ton to pull 23'. Andy at CanAM would be someone I would talk to and already gave is advice. I have a 1/2 ton F150 Ecoboost and I pull my 28' just fine. On youtube you can find gauntlet tests for an F150. It pulled a heavier trailer than mine up 8% grade at 60mph no problem. Fast enough. So I would see how it works after getting a proper hitch hook set up and see how it works.
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Old 11-24-2018, 10:27 AM   #99
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Wow ptech I had no idea I was stepping on your nerve or that you are some kind of diesel hater. OP already made his judgement the lil Tacoma is too weak for his goals and is looking for a suitable replacement. Hence my suggestion per his goals to drive the three trucks & why. The first being your favorite the Tundra.

Towing AS over the western grades never had a Tacoma pass me let alone blow me away on a grade with a TT. And I normally only climb at 55. Come to think when seen they are in the truck lane with the max loaded semi. Your statements sounds like you went from "objective" to something less.

Soon there will be four newer fuel efficient small diesels to pick from guess you are going to be angry. We have lots of ED owners who came from a Tundra so I get the animosity if you somehow take it personally. No bones the Tundra is a great truck just too thirsty for the people who need to drive and tow big miles.

"to the OP, if your performance expectations are higher, any nice 1/2 ton will do the trick." Sure OP knows his thread is just trying to find some of the better candidates for his goals. Not about how much you like Toyota, gas trucks, or hate diesel.
You and I are more aligned than you would believe. I do not hate diesels. Quite the contrary as I work on one everyday in my professional world. What I dislike is misinformation based on subjective "feels". Non-engineers may view this as arguing. I'm merely sharing points based on data.

The OP asked for an upgrade to tow his smaller AS. A number of individuals recommended middle weight diesel alternatives. None of which ultimately results in a power upgrade. My goal was to point this out. My second point was to show data of the untapped potential that is perhaps not being leveraged as Andy alluded to.

Back to your point, a Tundra would do wonders. So would any other 1/2 ton pickup. I drive a vehicle that uses the same 5.7L in your proposed Tundra. I know how potent this motor set is, towing a 27FB that some would say requires a 3/4 ton. Yet it actually can be relatively efficient if one keeps their foot out of it. My towing mpgs are 10-12mpg depending on conditions. This is with full blown 4WD and 33" AT tires. Perhaps .5-1mpg down because of its off-road orientation, but not atypical at all to most every other gas motor in efficiency. As fitted to the Lexus, it is immensely refined like a fine sewing machine. Spinning 4000-5000 rpm, when I desire, to pass rigs on the steepest grades results in solid acceleration and a distant minimal v8 growl.

It is a beautiful thing when you know the durability of your vehicle isn't even a question, and one can use the full output and capabilities of said vehicle. Toyota's earn your your confidence. I've had many other brands betray that confidence.
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Old 11-24-2018, 11:29 AM   #100
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It's not so much as the engine in a 150 can pull the trailer the 250 does it like it's not even on there and I have the 6.2 gas with 430 gears. It's just so much safer for the job.
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