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Old 11-18-2018, 01:33 PM   #61
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Have you looked at the Nissan Titan XD. You can spec it with extendable mirrors which work great with our FC 25. It gets good mileage towing and great mileage w/o the trailer. We are very pleased with ours. No issues up or down hills and if you use the tow setting down hills are a breeze.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:33 PM   #62
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Another suggestion - VW Touareg TDI

We’v got a 2018 FC23FB and tow it with a 2016 Touareg Diesel and have no trouble seeing around it with mirror extensions. The 23’ trailer is 8’ wide while the 25’ and above are 8 1/2’. The Diesel has more torque than many gas V-8’s and you have 6 piston brake calipers plus a comfortable interior. Well worth a look at the VW, Porsche or Audi line of SUV’s. Forgot to mention 16MPG towing and high 20’s without. Most comfortable vehicle I’ve ever owned!
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:58 PM   #63
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Taco

I pull a 4500 lb bambi with a 2017 GMC Canyon turbo diesel and couldnít be happier with it. It actually fits in my garage also. I have a diamondback tonneau cover as well on which I put an atv. No problem at all in Colorado even at 11000í.
Add to that almost 30 mpg on the level highway not under load and itís perfect. It has built in sway control and Iíve never had a problem there either
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Old 11-18-2018, 03:29 PM   #64
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We have a 2018 Interstate GT but have until recently had a succession of trailers. The last was a Lance that had a 6000 GVWR, as does your 23FB. We towed with a Lexus GX460, which has a V8 engine. Was more than enough power, got relatively decent gas mileage, and was typical Toyota bulletproof reliability.
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Old 11-18-2018, 03:31 PM   #65
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I pull 28’ AS with 2017 F150 XLT 3.5 Ecoboost. Pulls great. Max pull is 11,000lbs. 21 to 22 mpg not pulling. About 12 mpg when pulling. I think any of the 1/2 tons would work that have the V8 or Ecoboost. I see no reason to get a 3/4 ton diesel. Overkill.

If you want a diesel any of the 1/2 ton diesels would work. Although to me diesels spell issues with maintenance, etc.

And here’s the other thing: If you have a dealer that sells Toyota you might stay with that. My son-in-law has a Toyota Tundra and really likes it.
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Old 11-18-2018, 03:33 PM   #66
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Hi Pimms

If you would like to save many thousands of dollars there is no reason you cannot continue to use your Tachoma.

I think your perception that the Tachoma is struggling on hills is more of a perception than a reality. The Tachoma has one of the more durable drivetrains for towing and you could likely tow all over the continent for a half million miles with it if you wanted to. It has more performance than the most powerful tow vehicle you could buy in 1985 and people still traveled everywhere mostly with 31 and 34' Airstreams.

You can improve the performance and handling substantially and fuel economy a little by changing the tire size. You will sacrifice some off road capability though.

The mirror issue is easy to solve with McKesh or Dometic Aero mirrors. There are many people towing 8'6" wide 25's with Tachoma's.

If you would like some assistance with the tire size and mirrors send me an email with your current tire size and I can send you some suggestions. A photo of your hitch set up would be helpful as well. andy@canamrv.ca

I hope this helps.

Andy
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Old 11-18-2018, 05:36 PM   #67
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[QUOTE=Pimms;2177995]Hi all,

I purchased my 2016 Tacoma new and and am delighted with it in every way, except for towing our 2018 23FB.
Opened a can of worms, for sure, but who better to ask?

Good evening all!


After getting a 2018 FC 27 @ 6,500 loaded, we upgraded our 2018 JGC diesel 3.0. It would work, but was at the load limits and the mirrors sucked. Got a 2018 F150, 3.5, super cab, 6.5' bed, max tow, with electric extended mirrrors. Usually get 12.5mpg; 11 with lots of mountains. Great torque and power. Went with ProPride hitch to insure safety.
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Old 11-18-2018, 06:31 PM   #68
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Best advice from an 'ol Chevy man: Buy a tow vehicle that has more power, more comfort features, more towing capacity and a GPS. Stay away from diesel powered trucks; unless the significant cost of maintenance and noise is no issue!
You're never suffer the "wish I had" remorse! I gladly traded gas mileage for all the bells & whistles. It makes those long trips traveling a fun time again. Good Luck!
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:48 PM   #69
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If the truck is to be your daily driver, I'd certainly compare turning radius. It's really important in parking and maneuvering.
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Old 11-20-2018, 11:20 AM   #70
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Sequoia

I know this is primarily a thread for pickups however I'll throw in my 2cents for the Sequoia. It has the same engine, transmission and reliability of the Tundra. If you have one with the air-ride suspension the ride is superb. The turn radius is very tight, actually better than DW's Volvo. Our 95 lb puppy enjoys the extra space. It's also my daily driver, 15-16 mpg around town and 19-20 mpg on the highway if driven sensibly.
We towed our 25' Excella on a 3,300 mile trip this summer, averaged just under 12 mpg. Traversed some 10 degree grades without an issue.
Unless you need a pickup for any other reason then consider the Sequoia.
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Old 11-20-2018, 11:40 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flynavy View Post
If your new coach is an 8 1/2' wide body you will not be able to see down the sides of the trailer even with a full size Tundra with the pull out tow mirrors. The only time I can see the trailer tires is when going into a turn. I can see to change lanes through the lower "west coast" mirrors on the pull out tow mirrors. That's why you see so many wide body coaches set up with a rear view camera.
My trailer is an 8 1/2 foot wide body and I can see very well down both sides of the trailer with my Tundra extended towing mirrors. They extend to a 107 inch width which means the mirrors extend a couple of inches wider on each side. If you cannot see down the side the mirrors are not adjusted correctly or your trailer is not tracking straight.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:20 PM   #72
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as it relates to towing comfortably.....

I have a 26' Overlander.....I pull mine with a Ford E350 Super Duty with a v-10....I don't know if you have any use for a big van, but imagine a super heavy duty pickup, with giant motor, but all the space is enclosed, and usable......There is nothing else on the road today, that is as good of a vacation vehicle, as a big ford van....yes, you will get about 10 mpg towing your Airstream, but who cares.....I mean, after all the money we spent on our Airstream, who cares about fuel ! You can pull a giant Airstream with a big e350 too !
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:01 PM   #73
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I'm on my second F150, currently pulling a FC25. I had a 2012 with 3.5 Ecoboost and loved it, but needed some different options, so bought a 2017 crew cab, long(ish) bed, XLT/FX4, also with 3.5 Ecoboost, and max tow package, extendable mirrors, and hugely important, the 36 gallon furl tank. I use my truck for every day driving as well as towing. I've absolutely loved both trucks, had no issues whatsoever with either. I can pull the trailer up anything at whatever speed I want, and get pretty good gas mileage in everyday driving. BTW, I'm not a "Ford" guy; just that the F150 had some features nobody else has that are important to me. That being said I've absolutely loved both of them!!!

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Old 11-21-2018, 11:23 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
Hi Pimms

If you would like to save many thousands of dollars there is no reason you cannot continue to use your Tachoma.

I think your perception that the Tachoma is struggling on hills is more of a perception than a reality. The Tachoma has one of the more durable drivetrains for towing and you could likely tow all over the continent for a half million miles with it if you wanted to. It has more performance than the most powerful tow vehicle you could buy in 1985 and people still traveled everywhere mostly with 31 and 34' Airstreams.

You can improve the performance and handling substantially and fuel economy a little by changing the tire size. You will sacrifice some off road capability though.

The mirror issue is easy to solve with McKesh or Dometic Aero mirrors. There are many people towing 8'6" wide 25's with Tachoma's.

If you would like some assistance with the tire size and mirrors send me an email with your current tire size and I can send you some suggestions. A photo of your hitch set up would be helpful as well. andy@canamrv.ca

I hope this helps.

Andy
To the OP, I echo these sentiments as well. A few choice tweaks and driving techniques can make a world of difference.

The 3.5L V6, rated 278hp and 265 lb ft, is not fire breathing, but certainly more than capable. Consider that some of the recommendations for diesels here make less power (as in HP). Some by a lot. Colorado/Canyon Diesel 181hp, Ram Ecodiesel 250hp, Toureg Diesel 240hp.

Contrary to popular belief, motor torque is not what gets you up a hill. It is horsepower. In this, your Tacoma is already winning. Sure, torque gets you off the line. But read on...

Torque at the motor is one thing, but it's really torque at the wheels that's the prime mover. In this, gearing makes all the difference, and is a common tow package upgrade for many trucks. This is also how huge 20k lb class A RV's or commercial vehicles, with only modest motors work. It'll give her renewed verve in getting off the line under tow, and even a bit more gas efficiency under tow.

Two ways to accomplish this in any vehicle. 1) Re-gear 2) Reduce tire diameter for effectively more gearing (which is what Andy is alluding to)

You may follow Tacoma forums where they often talk about re-gearing for bigger diameter tires. Same principle here as the two are inter-related when it comes to overall gearing. In your case, we want to change the overall gearing by either strategy for more torque multiplication, hence more torque at the wheels.

If you want to maintain off-road ability with your current tire sizes, re-gearing may be what you want to do. If you have a 2WD, you have a 3.909 axle/differential ratio now. This is rather easily upgraded by most shops to an available 4.3 ratio that comes with the 4x4 version. This will make for 10% more torque at the wheels and make for a huge improvement Lots of threads on this, but here's one that might give you more information:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...rdrive.387347/

Perhaps easier and to Andy's point, your current stock size tire is a 245/75r16 (30.5" diameter). An easy strategy for more effective overall gearing is to drop an aspect ratio or 2, which reduced overall diameter of the tire. This helps two fold. Gearing as already mentioned. And reduced sidewall that will offer more lateral stability and sway resistance. Dropping to a 245/70r16 tire size (29.5") will give ~3.5% more torque. Dropping further to a 245/65/r16 (28.5") will give ~6.7% more torque. Tacoma wheels are easy to come by on the used market (Craigslist), and may even be worthwhile to have two sets of wheels, one for daily/offroad, one for towing.

In terms of hill climbing technique, a perception that is common is that gas motors don't have enough power. Most people are only comfortable driving torque. Said another way, they only use the lower rpm band and aren't comfortable accessing the upper rev band where gas motors make their most power. As in HP, because that is absolutely what truly does work to get to the top of the hill. You have a Toyota and just spinning the motor a little (or a lot) won't hurt it in the slightest.

Choose the right gear going up a hill that allows the motor spin, and make the power that you want, to keep the speed that you desire. The Tacoma 3.5L is rated for peak 278hp @ 6000rpm. Relax, let her spin, it's a Toyota. She'll reward you with gusto up the hill. Gas motors need to spin unlike diesel, which literally can't spin. You'll be way way ahead of all those recommended diesel "upgrades".

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Old 11-21-2018, 11:36 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteck View Post
Choose the right gear going up a hill that allows the motor spin, and make the power that you want, to keep the speed that you desire. The Tacoma 3.5L is rated for peak 278hp @ 6000rpm. Relax, let her spin, it's a Toyota. She'll reward you with gusto up the hill.
I have a 2016 Tacoma so yes to pretty much everything in your post. The only downside is the engine/exhaust sound and tone in a Tacoma is fairly high pitched. Not a pleasant or "powerful" sound, so it takes a little while getting used to letting it rip at 4500 rpm up a steep hill.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:27 PM   #76
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Green68, You've got some good comments for people who really don't need a pick-up truck.

I think a lot depends on one's camping style. We tend to travel with a canoe on the roof rack, and then use the truck bed (covered with a cap/topper/canopy) for the paddles, life jackets, and blue barrel. Not to mention camp chairs, folding side tables auxiliary picnic cooler, gas grill, and so on.

Our 95 lb. "puppy" is happy in the roomy back seat of our Tundra.

We're a one-vehicle household, but we live in a rural area, so most of our driving is highway, anyhow.
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:15 AM   #77
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Payload Again & High RPMs

This is an interesting thread that addresses the wonderful longevity and reliability of Toyotaís, however few have addressed the payload capacity of these trucks and cars! I encourage all folks to add the payload from the drivers door tag to these posts. I am confident few will have the necessary payload for tongue weight, passengers, bikes, kayaks, generators and camping equipment?? Another point we should address is how often owners of 23ft AS upgrade to a longer vehicle, that certainly exceeds any Tundra crew cab or Tacoma, or many 1/2 ton pickups. I did not see any 23 ft AS on our 8,000 mile trip to Seattle, nor any cars pulling any AS?? Most people were using 26ft + trailers. In each campground we stayed in, where a unique TV, or TT, I would ask them the towability question and everyone is glad to provide an honest assessment of TVís strengths and shortcomings. Most 1/2 ton truck owners informed me that after climbing the mountain passes in the West, they would be upgrading to a stronger, more powerful TV, as in 3/4 ton pickup. At one rest stop on I-80, I asked a 3/4 ton Cummins diesel Ram owner how many revs he experienced climbing the mountains 1800 to 1900. I limit my 4.6L F150 to 3,500 revs to assuage my fears the engine will blow up!! Anyone willing to run their gas engines on test trucks in attempt to keep the truck and heavy trailer at speed limit as the YOUTUBE channel TFL does on the IKE gauntlet? They nearly redline the engine climbing I-70 to Eisenhower tunnel?
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Old 11-22-2018, 09:06 AM   #78
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superChop Payload or more appropriately and accurately for trailering GVWR, has importance. But the focus for stability and safety towing should always be put on proper weight distribution with respects to all Mfg specs. Best set according to scale results. Use your WDH and loading to replace your trucks steer weight and get your trailer close as you reasonably can to 12.5% tongue weight and not only will you have a stable rig but normally your GVW will be within Mfg spec using your 26-27' example. Unless you are heavily loading your bed which necessitates a HD. In baseball terms if you are the batter looking at the first baseman you will likely miss the pitch. Looking at or focusing on the wrong thing.

To your second point sure a diesel is going to pull better than a gasser and make peak torque at a much lower rpm often in the 1800 rpm range. And yes a HD platform is generally going to be more stable than a 1/2 ton. But often a half ton gasser will make more power than its counterpart in the 3/4 ton. Just compare axle ratios to make sure you are doing apples to apples. Many f-150 4.6s made peak torque at 3,500 rpms so its just as comfortable and at its peak efficiency there as the Cummins is comfortable and efficient in the 1800 range. This certainly does speak to the better longevity of diesels though and naturally diesel is a better more efficient fuel for towing. The 4.6 was weak it needed a lot of gear to help it pull. Even the 3 valve 5.4 with more cubes a longer stroke and heads to breath pulled a lot better than the 4.6 despite being the same block.

Back to your first point and as many Tundra Airstreamers know keep your eye on the ball. To know the three axle weights is to know stability safety and a comfortable ride. To guestimate at payload towards a payload sticker number does not.
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Old 11-22-2018, 09:37 AM   #79
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Still looking...

Again want to say thanks for all the input and just to clarify our situation. I do require a pickup for the hauling that I am often doing, but I still don't think I, personally, would want or need a 3/4 ton. My truck is my daily driver and getting into tight parking spots can be a hassle even with the Tacoma (wheelbase just 127 inches). Also, the door sticker restricts payload to just over 1100, and we don't want to be forced minimalists. I think we could be comfortable with 1500 or 1600 though. We won't be looking to upsize from our 23FB. We went down that slippery slope in our boating days. Nothing bigger than the 23 will fit in our yard and we don't want the added expense of off-site storage.

Since starting this thread I've been reading and considering options. I think diesel would be nice, but there is the added cost. At this point I think I'm leaning toward the F150 Eco. Most on other threads think it would be a great match for the 23.
Happy Thanksgiving!
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Old 11-22-2018, 09:57 AM   #80
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To ptechs points. Mmmn yes & no IMO. Torque gets you up the hill. HP determines how fast. It has to have enough torque to pull the gear if and only then will the amount of HP available at the required torque rpm will it determine how fast.

Yes to a point you can run a shorter tire to make up for the torque shortage and to exploit the horsepower. I would. As to spinning a Taco 6k to get it up the hill. You can. If it can't do it where its comfortable and fuel efficient (per work being done) IE at peak torque and I can't satisfactorily remedie it with lowering the effective gear via tire change well to attain a satisfactory ascent speed. I'll be like OP and looking for a more appropriate truck.

Happy Thankgiving Pimms & all. I say Drive the EB ED & Canyon diesel if you have ruled out the Tundra. I know in the case of the ED the premium for the ED over the Hemi was only $2,600.
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