How concerned are you about your trucks payload

[Jim J]

Link to lawsuit concerning Payload.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-s...bers-false-mpg

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Jim J

Link to lawsuit concerning Payload.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-s...bers-false-mpg

It's a ford...king of the recalls...."Ford issued the most recalls of any automaker during 2022, including around 250,000 F-250 and F-350 ...Dec 30, 2022"

Bob
🇺🇸

[propchef]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

You're missing Bob's point. If a dealer has a lot of commercial (especially medium duty) vehicles, there is at least one person there who knows how to spec any truck.

Didn’t miss it, just didn’t mention it

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Let's see ....

I overload my rig and run it that way for long enough to get in serious trouble. That might be days, weeks, or years. There are a lot of variables.

In this particular case, it causes an accident with multiple fatalities. I happen to survive just fine.

I'm now happy as can be, I'm not going to jail.

Somehow this isn't how I'd bet it would work out. Jail or not, you still get to live with it.

Bob

Not in a million years. It will never even cross that guy's mind that his overloading his rig had ANYTHING to do with the accident.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by KCCO

Your response is a perfect example of my previous statement about blowing smoke…..you produce a generic google search showing attorneys talking about RV accidents.

To my knowledge payload isn’t even measured commercially - when you pull up to the scale they hit axle weights which in turn gets your gvwr, and gcvwr. After those weights are taken they don’t get out and examine your door sticker and start doing the math necessary to determine if you’re over payload.

Payload has become a fear mongering topic on these forums in recent years. Scaring people about financial wipeouts, insurance not paying, prison time, etc. for being over payload.

No one has ever produced any evidence showing any of those to be true. Because they can’t………just the fear peddling.

Reality is, many of the people who say “get a 2500 and forget about it” are likely still over payload. Not uncommon for a 3/4 ton diesel to have a payload around 1900 - 2000 lbs. 2 people, a dog, truck cap, a truck bed full of generator, fire pit, cords, tools, etc. and a loaded airstream giving you 1k in tongue weight…..you get the idea. But hey it’s a 3/4 ton diesel it tows like a dream!!

Point being - people don’t apply the payload argument uniformly. People think 1/2 tons should only use about half of their stated payload before it’s unsafe, any truck bigger they don’t bother to do the math, because they have an HD…….

At the scales they check for max road weight of the axles (IE 20,000pounds) and they check if you are over your GVW of the DOT 1-8 class of vehicle you are in. Most 2500 have a GVWR of 10,000 pounds and are a DOT Class 2B (GVW of 10,000 pounds) which is is reflected in the 4th position of the vehicle VIN. Do you really think that the DOT keeps track of thousands of different axle ratings and if they have been replaced by repair shop. No, they use DOT Vehicle Class Ratings of 1-8,9.

DOT doesn't worry about axle ratings at the scales mater fact can any find any thing in FEDERAL DOT regs about axle ratings and fines. NOPE. All you find is the definition of GAWR but right above that is the DOT definition of GVWR being the max weight a vehicle can weight.

Yes, the yellow sticker on your door giving payload is not legally binding and can not be used in court since it says 'SHOULD NOT EXCEED". In you user manual it does state that you 'MUST NOT EXCEED" the GVWR on the door silver sticker which is enforceable in court.

I think everyone that thinks payload is not an issue should sit down with an accident attorney and ask someone that knows that law. I did. Exceeding manufacture safety specs are legally binding in court.

Here is what GMC Says Right On there Website.

You may not give much thought about those figures while making short trips or carrying a couple of small items, but when it comes time to load your GMC with lots of passengers or cargo, it’s important to keep your GMC’s GVWR in mind. Failure to do so may result in you exceeding the GVWR and overloading your vehicle.

Overloading your truck or SUV can carry severe consequences, including:

Broken springs and suspension components due to excess weight
Brakes unable to stop the truck or SUV in a timely manner
Transmission and other driveline components may overheat and sustain serious damage
Unusual suspension behavior, making the vehicle hard to control
Tire temperatures rising to elevated levels, potentially leading to a blowout


https://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/...-weight-rating

[CWSWine]

Here is more on GAWR are no longer used by DOT BUT GVW is used.

https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/Member_ben...k_trucks1.aspx

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Let's see ....

I overload my rig and run it that way for long enough to get in serious trouble. That might be days, weeks, or years. There are a lot of variables.

Bob

Or, more than likely… Never causes an issue at all. Just one other scenario to consider.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Bobbo

Not in a million years. It will never even cross that guy's mind that his overloading his rig had ANYTHING to do with the accident.

Hi

Except, he's not one of the folks digging in here and worrying about payload.....

Yes, pretty much every day we're out, we see rigs that either are *very* poorly setup or are way over limit. From chatting with some of them, they often are quite aware of the situation *and* the risks. The typical answer is "we don't do this much ....".

Bob

[CWSWine]

Here is a very good article on GVWR, GAWR and GCWR.

'Safety is the primary objective of the GVWR. In the past, some customers would guesstimate the GVWR based on adding up the Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWR), which is not accurate; axles may not be the limiting factor. Today, manufacturers often test the dynamic driving characteristics of their vehicles to actually determine the GVWR.'


https://www.forconstructionpros.com/...he-bottom-line

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi
Let's see ....
I overload my rig and run it that way for long enough to get in serious trouble. That might be days, weeks, or years. There are a lot of variables.

First of all you used the term "overload". How did you determine you were overloaded? By the payload sticker? You've fallen into the trap already.
I'm not recommending any solution other than common sense. If you feel better driving around with nothing in the truck bed because you think being 1,000 pounds UNDER payload makes you safer, be my guest.
I'm just saying for me, common sense prevailed. If you can explain why leather seats reduce payload from an engineering standpoint, I'd like to hear it.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

First of all you used the term "overload". How did you determine you were overloaded? By the payload sticker? You've fallen into the trap already.
I'm not recommending any solution other than common sense. If you feel better driving around with nothing in the truck bed because you think being 1,000 pounds UNDER payload makes you safer, be my guest.
I'm just saying for me, common sense prevailed. If you can explain why leather seats reduce payload from an engineering standpoint, I'd like to hear it.

The payload sticker says "Should Not Exceed" and is only use to compare trucks during the buying process. In your vehicles manual it states "Must Not Exceed the GVWR" and that is found on the silver door sticker. If you over your GVWR you are over your max weight allowed for that vehicle.

https://www.forconstructionpros.com/...he-bottom-line

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

If you can explain why leather seats reduce payload from an engineering standpoint, I'd like to hear it.

Payload = GVWR - Weight of Truck. Add heavier leather seats over lightweight synthetic fabrics, payload goes down.

[propchef]

Originally Posted by hikingcamera

Payload = GVWR - Weight of Truck. Add heavier leather seats over lightweight synthetic fabrics, payload goes down.

In our vehicle, upgrading to leather also gets you massage features, heated seats, armrests and steering wheel, air bladders for firmness and lumbar adjustments, and multi-way adjustment with memory. Several hundred pounds.

[ROBERT CROSS]

My payload hurts today,can we change the subject?


"Worry...a brain exercise done when it really wants to sleep"
RLC


Bob
🇺🇸

[field & stream]

At the risk of further exciting passions, it seems there are two ways to not be concerned about payload:

1) respect the published payload numbers, buy a tow vehicle that meets or exceeds that number for your use, and relax without concern.

2) disrespect the published payload numbers, push or exceed them in your use, and spend a lot of effort trying to convince others (and yourself?) that there is no need for concern.

[jlydell]

Ford publishes a document itemizing how different options impact the front/rear axles across the truck line up.

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/f...er-Loading.pdf

Takes some of the guess-work away.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by jlydell

Ford publishes a document itemizing how different options impact the front/rear axles across the truck line up.

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/f...er-Loading.pdf

Takes some of the guess-work away.

That is a great resource directly from FORD and even how to determining loading and how to check your max loading of the truck

Here is what says about loading.....

LOADING INSTRUCTIONS
Secure loose items to prevent weight shifts that could affect the balance of your vehicle. When the truck camper is loaded, drive onto a scale and weigh the front and the rear wheels separately to determine the axle loads. Individual axle loads should not exceed either of the Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWR). The total of the axle loads should not exceed the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). These ratings are given on the vehicle certification label that is located on the left side of the vehicle, normally the dash, hinge pillar, door latch post, or door edge next to the driver. If weight ratings are exceeded, move or remove items to bring all weights below the ratings.

Seems like everything I read says don't exceed any vehicle ratings including the GVWR.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Castaway

I have spent the last month looking at ACTUAL PAYLOADS for a Ford F150 Lariat, the largest that I have found is around 1650 lbs. We pull a 25ft FC with front twins and our tongue weight is around 950 lbs which would leave us with only 700 lbs for 2 passengers(total weight ~ 550 lbs) and any cargo. Am I the only one who is concerned about being over loaded and either getting stopped and weighed or else being in an accident and sued for being to heavy?

I know that getting a 250 would solve my problem but we only tow 2 times a year and the truck is our daily driver.


Gary

Couple of observations and experienced examples I can share:
1) F150 (or most any 1/2T) are very capable of "towing" heavy trailers, including the largest AS's; just that the "actual" payload including the tongue weight of your 25 or larger AS, can easily exceed many/most 1/2T "Payload" specs on the doorjamb. As you found out, finding one on a lot with 2000+payload rating is not very easy...thats why many folks order new, but even then, you can be disappointed when the truck arrives due to payload on the sticker not "as advertised" by the guy who ordered it for you.

All that being said, I drove my F150 King Ranch 4x4 towing a 25' AS around for 3 years, before I knew anything about "payload"; I was always way over payload...would I do it now? No. I try to stay within Mfg. recommended specs.

2) Can exceeding payload cause issues with accidents and/or injury's, or can you get into legal issues? Again, a topic many "experts" here will argue one way or another. You need to make the decision on how comfortable you are with the possibility should something happen on the road. I share my experience 20+ years ago, when my son who was driving our Expedition, had a roll-over accident due to sever wind gust at night in Colorado. He was on a ski trip with 6 college friends from Austin. One of the occupants had serious back injury, and her parents sued us for medical bills. Our insurance in turn, sued Ford; this was during the Firestone tire issues. Ford's insurance guys collected detailed information on each occupant's weight and also the weights/contents of the Thule roof cargo container, and all their ski gear to see if they were overloaded. Ford ended up settling with all parties, but I remember my insurance guy telling me they would look at all aspects when an injury is involved in an accident. That was 20+ years ago...my point is, it's your life.

I wouldn't necessarily take anyone's word here on what can or will happen should you have an accident...you have to do what you feel comfortable with. Staying within the vehicles spec to me is just plain logical. (I am also a pilot; learned a long time ago not to push the envelope where safety is concerned.)

[CWSWine]

Here is what GM is putting on truck door jams that includes towing limits. People read the first line and think they can tow 9500 pounds but you also need to stay under the 950 pound tongue weight or 10% of GVW. When someone complains about sway people will tell him to increase tongue weight and try to closer to 12.5%. Will 9500 X 12..5% = 1187 pound tongue exceeding the 950 on the sticker.

If you loaded ready to camp AS weight 7600 pounds at 12.5% would have a tongue weight of around 950 pounds so now 7600 pounds is the max TT you can tow and stay within the specs for towing of a trailer on the door sticker tongue weight.

Notice the payload of 1911 on the sticker. That’s because J2807 standard check for stability, braking and at what weight can safely be towed. J2801 is a towing standard put together by engineering principles to provide a standard for safe operation of vehicles while towing.

With the 1911 payload most would say you tow a 10,000 AS but seems that GM disagrees.

[Adiredneck]

Driving an overloaded vehicle is akin to driving on old bald tires: it's not a matter of "if" as much as "when" - which begs the question "why"? Why would you endanger yourself and your family, as well as others on the road? Lawsuits and overweight fines notwithstanding, why be the idiot who cares so little about himself and those around him? Part of being a responsible person and functional adult is making sure you do things right, and if you choose to careen down an interstate at 70 mph hauling 3 or 4 tons of trailer behind you, do your research and due diligence and get a TV that can do it safely. My 2015 Ram 3500 has a rated payload of 4287 lbs; and when towing my 2014 27FB Classic, we average 17,500 lbs combined, with 10,000 lbs on the truck and 7500 on the trailer, per CAT scale. Even at that, I am 25% below my GVW and gross axle weights. A simple matter of responsibility and safety. I've scraped and hosed enough blood, fuel, and oil off the highways in my 45 years in the fire service to know that I don't want it to belong to me or mine, or someone else's that I caused...