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View Poll Results: How concerned are you about payload?
I watch it very closely and never go over 34 31.19%
I think about it and try to stay below 46 42.20%
Never worry about it 29 26.61%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-22-2023, 09:53 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acheron2010 View Post
Got the 2500HD and never looked back.

Agreed...When we moved from a 23' Globetrotter to the new 28' Pottery Barn we upgraded to a GMC Sierra 3500HD and never looked back. it's a little overkill for the weight of the 28', but I now have no concerns! I realize not everyone can do that, but for us ensuring we were well within the stickered capacity of the TV was important from a safety perspective.
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Old 03-22-2023, 10:03 AM   #142
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I am one of the folks that voted "never worry about it". I voted this way because I have equipped myself to be sure that I am well within the specifications of the equipment that I am using. I did not vote this way because I just don't give a hoot.

I am confident that we have a very solid trailer/tow vehicle combination and we are somewhat experienced at Airstream towing. Speed is not often a factor in our equation as we rarely travel the Interstate Highways. Accordingly, Lucy doesn't often get above 60 mph. We are very comfortable in GVW matters.

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Old 03-22-2023, 10:12 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castaway View Post
I have spent the last month looking at ACTUAL PAYLOADS for a Ford F150 Lariat, the largest that I have found is around 1650 lbs. We pull a 25ft FC with front twins and our tongue weight is around 950 lbs which would leave us with only 700 lbs for 2 passengers(total weight ~ 550 lbs) and any cargo. Am I the only one who is concerned about being over loaded and either getting stopped and weighed or else being in an accident and sued for being to heavy?

I know that getting a 250 would solve my problem but we only tow 2 times a year and the truck is our daily driver.


Gary
We went with a dually to address the payload issue when towing our 5th wheel. To understand your risk, check with you insurance company and see if you are covered in an accident if you are overweight. Then decide what you are comfortable with after that.
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Old 03-22-2023, 12:29 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propchef View Post
Thanks for sharing my example. This is a commercial incident and makes my point.

No, forum members are not good for legal advice, but open discussion is always good unless bad or misleading info is put out. Your post doesn't address payload.

No trailer brakes either. Here is the list of charges:



  • Felony reckless driving
  • No valid driverís license
  • Unsafe vehicle
  • Obstruction of justice
  • Failure to obey traffic light
  • Fail to obey traffic device
  • No record of duty status
  • Motor carrier permit required
  • No medical certificate
  • Operating a CMV without a CDL
  • Driver must be able to understand traffic signals
  • No fuel tax permit
  • IRO apportioned tag/reg violation
  • No USDOT/carrier name displayed
  • Inoperative/defective Brakes
  • Inspection repair and maintenance (2 counts)
  • Wheel fasteners loose and missing (2 counts)
  • Required brakes missing on trailer
  • Loose or unfastened tiedown
  • Damaged vehicle structures and pressure points
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Old 03-22-2023, 02:38 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Canam rv is that a new brand of AS?



Bob



Not aware of any other RV dealer other than CanAm RV that actually track tests with instrumentation their towing setups and published those results. Therefore, when they report something is stable, it is with some credibility. When they report a tow rig that can outperform a 3/4 or 1 ton truck not even towing something - that is interesting.
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Old 03-22-2023, 03:18 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETroup View Post
Not aware of any other RV dealer other than CanAm RV that actually track tests with instrumentation their towing setups and published those results. Therefore, when they report something is stable, it is with some credibility. When they report a tow rig that can outperform a 3/4 or 1 ton truck not even towing something - that is interesting.
I have never seen any test data from suppliers of hitches concerning the oversteer dangers associated WD hitches. I believe they know about these problems but are reluctant to share such information. I'd like to see any engineering study that they may have.
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Old 03-22-2023, 09:12 PM   #147
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I know I'm a little late to the party but, like hoppes-no9 I traded an F150 with 18K miles and 12 months left on the warranty for a 2500 Duramax to avoid being overloaded on the drive to Alaska.

We were on a WBCCI Caravan. One of the other members driving an overloaded "half ton" Japanese SUV sheered three wheel studs as they barely made it to the campground in Delta Junction.

There can be non-legal reasons to pay attention to this stuff.
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Old 03-23-2023, 05:29 AM   #148
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Question:
When I subtract my Tundraís measured scale curb weight of 6160 lbs from the door sticker GVWR of 7660 lbs I get 1500 lbs, yet my payload sticker says 1305 lbs? Why the discrepancy of about 195 lbs?

BTW, Iím only towing a 23í so Iím still within the 1305 limit.
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Old 03-23-2023, 06:05 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunzman View Post
Question:
When I subtract my Tundraís measured scale curb weight of 6160 lbs from the door sticker GVWR of 7660 lbs I get 1500 lbs, yet my payload sticker says 1305 lbs? Why the discrepancy of about 195 lbs?

BTW, Iím only towing a 23í so Iím still within the 1305 limit.
Sometimes the weight of the driver is not included in the payload sticker number. Also the definition of curb weight is not universally agreed upon. The most common definition of curb weight is the weight of the vehicle with a full tank of fuel, no driver, no occupants, no cargo and no options except factory installed options.
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Old 03-23-2023, 06:18 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy543 View Post
Sometimes the weight of the driver is not included in the payload sticker number. Also the definition of curb weight is not universally agreed upon. The most common definition of curb weight is the weight of the vehicle with a full tank of fuel, no driver, no occupants, no cargo and no options except factory installed options.


I measured my true curb weight with a full tank and me in it and then subtracted me. It could be that the payload sticker already assumes a driver and the 1305 lbs is what is left over?
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Old 03-23-2023, 06:33 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post

So removing the spare tire increases payload? Food for thought. "Yeah, my Super Duty Ford is so much more capable without a spare! No more white knuckle trips for me!"
Agree. I have a supplemental sticker on my door jam. The previous owner added a bug shield. Had to reduce payload.
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Old 03-23-2023, 06:42 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunzman View Post
I measured my true curb weight with a full tank and me in it and then subtracted me. It could be that the payload sticker already assumes a driver and the 1305 lbs is what is left over?
I would go by the GVWR number since that is the definitive limit on the truck's capability. The payload sticker is only there to make it easy for you to load the truck without exceeding the GVWR. Technically speaking, the payload limit = GVWR - curb weight. Since you already weighed the truck and you know the curb weight, you don't really need the payload sticker.
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Old 03-23-2023, 06:46 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETroup View Post
Not aware of any other RV dealer other than CanAm RV that actually track tests with instrumentation their towing setups and published those results. Therefore, when they report something is stable, it is with some credibility. When they report a tow rig that can outperform a 3/4 or 1 ton truck not even towing something - that is interesting.
TETO...Whatever floats 'yer bote.

Myself...I have always relied on a capable un-modified vehicle.

POI...the only TV 'improvements' I've done are performance & mpg related and they took 16yrs to amortize.

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Old 03-23-2023, 09:30 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GettinAway View Post
Agree. I have a supplemental sticker on my door jam. The previous owner added a bug shield. Had to reduce payload.
Indeed!
When you actually think about it and stop assuming the engineers designed it to a standard, you'll only come to one conclusion; calculation of payload is exactly the opposite of building a safer vehicle.
"Ford took the radio out to increase payload"
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Old 03-23-2023, 09:54 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunzman View Post
Question:
When I subtract my Tundra’s measured scale curb weight of 6160 lbs from the door sticker GVWR of 7660 lbs I get 1500 lbs, yet my payload sticker says 1305 lbs? Why the discrepancy of about 195 lbs?

BTW, I’m only towing a 23’ so I’m still within the 1305 limit.
I had a similar issue with a European SUV. All the examples had the same payload label sticker number, which matched the published literature. Weighing the vehicle showed that the manufacturer had left some payload capacity on the table. It appears that some manufacturers don’t see maximizing payload claims as a marketing feature, so they nominate a conservative number that a range of models may meet, and print one common label. It is obvious that some manufacturers, especially of North American pickups, want to get every lb they can, to the extent of weighing finished vehicles and calculating the maximum possible payload. But not all manufacturers will do that. The NHTSA in their guidance to manufacturers for the payload label stated:

Quote:
These requirements allow manufacturers to understate (but not overstate) the weight value for load carrying capacity
Just weigh the vehicle, and compare it to the GVWR label. That is the sure way.

It is similar for towing capacity, despite what some here have claimed about these figures being absolute maximums determined by engineering teams.
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Old 03-23-2023, 10:20 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Andy543 View Post
I have never seen any test data from suppliers of hitches concerning the oversteer dangers associated WD hitches. I believe they know about these problems but are reluctant to share such information. I'd like to see any engineering study that they may have.


CanAm RV likely has as much relevant data and test track experience matching Tow Vehicles and Trailers with the proper WD Hitch setup and then verifying on their test track.

As demonstrated in their slalom and emergency lane change tests, stability is obviously more than just getting a bigger tow vehicle. You can find videos of tests at the link below.

I wish there was some local resource to ask questions of but I am not aware of a comparable knowledge base around Orlando, FL.

If you contact them and ask specific questions, you can get specific answers especially if they have previously worked with similar setups.

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/
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Old 03-24-2023, 06:37 AM   #157
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Old 03-24-2023, 07:06 AM   #158
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When I started taking my FJ Cruiser into more difficult terrain, I went to a better tire. I guess that was just a waste of money.
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Old 03-24-2023, 11:56 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETroup View Post
CanAm RV likely has as much relevant data and test track experience matching Tow Vehicles and Trailers with the proper WD Hitch setup and then verifying on their test track.

As demonstrated in their slalom and emergency lane change tests, stability is obviously more than just getting a bigger tow vehicle. You can find videos of tests at the link below.

I wish there was some local resource to ask questions of but I am not aware of a comparable knowledge base around Orlando, FL.

If you contact them and ask specific questions, you can get specific answers especially if they have previously worked with similar setups.

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/
Keep in mind that they do not treat the GVWR as a maximum. That is a potential risk that they do not tell you about.
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Old 03-24-2023, 12:02 PM   #160
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Who, in this entire thread, says it's okay to not follow manufacturers recommendations?

I'll answer for you. Nobody.

Instead it's being asserted by a number of folks here, and without evidence, that just because someone is towing such and such a Airstream with a vehicle they personally don't approve of, that individual must be knowingly doing something wrong.
Andy at CanAm has specifically said that he uses the sum of axle ratings and their guideline, even if the sum exceeds the GVWR. Since he is referenced in this thread, that is one person.
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