How concerned are you about your trucks payload

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

I'm really not concerned about how "Cloudsplitter" handles on a Gymkhana course at speed, as long as it doesn't sway on the interstate in heavy winds, rain & passing 18 wheelers. KISS.



"Worry... a brain exercise done when it really wants to sleep" RLC



Bob

[emoji631]

Yes, that’s how most of us define stability. There’s more to the debate, but I don’t disagree with you.

[DewTheDew]

Originally Posted by propchef

We have a BMW X5 with the tow package.

I’ve found several conflicting numbers for payload and tow weights, all for my specific vehicle. Outside of North America, those numbers are consistent across the entire G05 platform. N.A. BMWs come standard with run-flats which aren’t great for towing. Replacing them right away and getting the right wheels makes a huge difference.

I doubt that the numbers are "conflicting" so much as they are different for different models and set ups. There are numerous listings for towing capacity and payload for F150s, for instance. That isn't a "conflict". Go by the sticker on your door, not the internet.

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by xpcdoojk

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but. What about fuel levels? IE a vehicle weighed with an almost empty gas tank is clearly going to weigh less than it will with a full tank. could that account for the difference between the numbers IE GVWR and Payload?

Curb weight includes full fuel and fluids, spare tire, etc. No passengers or cargo.

In my vehicles, the fuel only weighs about 125 lbs. Not enough to account for the difference.

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by DewTheDew

I doubt that the numbers are "conflicting" so much as they are different for different models and set ups. There are numerous listings for towing capacity and payload for F150s, for instance. That isn't a "conflict". Go by the sticker on your door, not the internet.

That’s exactly what I do. Front and rear GAWRs, GVWR, and actual curb weight. My tow vehicle weighs 3800 lbs, but according to the internet it’s only 3527!

[propchef]

Originally Posted by DewTheDew

I doubt that the numbers are "conflicting" so much as they are different for different models and set ups. There are numerous listings for towing capacity and payload for F150s, for instance. That isn't a "conflict". Go by the sticker on your door, not the internet.

I think you missed the part where I said differences for my specific vehicle, not different models or specs.

If they aren’t the same payload and hitch numbers for the same vehicle I call that a conflict.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by hikingcamera

Hmmm... can't exceed the curb weight... that seems problematic.

Tongue weight specs seem often overlooked. I've seen several confident 3/4 ton truck owners who claimed they were in spec even though the unloaded tongue weight of their trailer was exceeding the manufacturer's specs without a WDH.

Most 1500 I looked at had a tongue max weight of around 950 pounds and there was no mention of it with or without WD this sticker is on the door jam and not on the hitch. I downloaded the manual for 2022 and there wasn't any mention of without our with WD just don't exceed the limits.

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

Most 1500 I looked at had a tongue max weight of around 950 pounds and there was no mention of it with or without WD this sticker is on the door jam and not on the hitch. I downloaded the manual for 2022 and there wasn't any mention of without our with WD just don't exceed the limits.

Yeah today’s trucks are far more capable according to their manufacturers. I am not as familiar with GMC, but go back to 2016, and on paper an F-350 can’t tow a 25-foot Airstream without a WDH. I’m not professing to know whether that is actually true in practice, but if you are going by the letter of the specs, it’s there in their tow guide.

(Ref: 2016 Ford Towing Guide, page 37, https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/)

[dznf0g]

My 2015 chevy 1500 says 1200# max tw on the receiver...but it is a maxtow. Payload = 2034.
Ltz double cab with a lot of whistles, but without the bells that weigh a lot.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by hikingcamera

Yeah today’s trucks are far more capable according to their manufacturers. I am not as familiar with GMC, but go back to 2016, and on paper an F-350 can’t tow a 25-foot Airstream without a WDH. I’m not professing to know whether that is actually true in practice, but if you are going by the letter of the specs, it’s there in their tow guide.

(Ref: 2016 Ford Towing Guide, page 37, https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/)

That was true in 2016 but in 2022 they have a rating called the Max tongue weight listed on the door jam that doesn't mention WD at all. In 2022 their ratings not only for Max Tongue Weight but Max Gooseneck Rating (5th wheel) which there wasn't in 2016.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

My 2015 chevy 1500 says 1200# max tw on the receiver...but it is a maxtow. Payload = 2034.
Ltz double cab with a lot of whistles, but without the bells that weigh a lot.

Yes in 2015 It probably said that but now if you buy a 2022 or newer it is going to have a door tag (not on the hitch) that states Max Tongue Weight and doesn't anywhere on the tag or in the manual anything about with or without WD. Here is a door tag off of a 2022 GM 1500. This tag says 1911 payload but 950 Max Tongue Weight. See the image below...

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

Yes in 2015 It probably said that but now if you buy a 2022 or newer it is going to have a door tag (not on the hitch) that states Max Tongue Weight and doesn't anywhere on the tag or in the manual anything about with or without WD. Here is a door tag off of a 2022 GM 1500. This tag says 1911 payload but 950 Max Tongue Weight. See the image below...

To be honest, and I have no definitive proof, just years as a rep...I don't think the max matters to the receiver. The dead weight torques one way....wd applies the torque the other way. I think the ratings were more applicable to how the forces effect the rear axle load.

[SSquared]

Look closely at that GM sticker and you will see that it does NOT give the max tongue weight rating for the vehicle. Instead, it gives the max tongue weight for which the vehicle passed the SAE J2807 tests. The SAE tests are always run with a 10% tongue weight.

Suppose a vehicle has a 1000 pound receiver. But when they do the SAE "Davis Dam" hill climb test, it overheats at any trailer weight over 9000 pounds. Then the J2807 test result is 9000 pounds trailer weight, and 900 pounds tongue weight. GM will put those numbers on the door sticker, and there will be no way for us to know about the 1000 pound receiver.

In the case of the 2023 Chevy 1500 with 6.2L engine and Max trailering option, the GCWR goes up by 1300 pounds when you go from 18 inch wheels to 20 inch wheels (probably because it does better on the J2807 stability test). That increases the tow rating and tongue weight rating. Does anybody think changing wheel size improves receiver strength?

GM is providing incomplete information.

[Andy543]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

Yes in 2015 It probably said that but now if you buy a 2022 or newer it is going to have a door tag (not on the hitch) that states Max Tongue Weight and doesn't anywhere on the tag or in the manual anything about with or without WD. Here is a door tag off of a 2022 GM 1500. This tag says 1911 payload but 950 Max Tongue Weight. See the image below...

The owner's manual does say that you need a WD hitch for trailers over 7000 lbs (6000 lbs for a diesel).

[CWSWine]

Here is what it says in the manual of 2022 GM 1500.

Trailer Weight Ratings
When towing a trailer, the combined weight of the vehicle, vehicle contents, trailer, and trailer contents must be below all of the maximum weight ratings for the vehicle, including:
. Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)
. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
. Maximum Trailer Weight Rating
. Gross Axle Weight Rating-Rear (GAWR-RR)
. Maximum Trailer Tongue Weight Rating

---------------

The Maximum Trailer Tongue Weight Rating for a conventional trailer hitch or a fifth wheel/gooseneck hitch is shown on the Trailering Information Label.

https://www.gmc.com/bypass/pcf/gma-c...2022MAY_3P.pdf

[Andy543]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

Here is what it says in the manual of 2022 GM 1500.



Trailer Weight Ratings

When towing a trailer, the combined weight of the vehicle, vehicle contents, trailer, and trailer contents must be below all of the maximum weight ratings for the vehicle, including:

. Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)

. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)

. Maximum Trailer Weight Rating

. Gross Axle Weight Rating-Rear (GAWR-RR)

. Maximum Trailer Tongue Weight Rating



---------------



The Maximum Trailer Tongue Weight Rating for a conventional trailer hitch or a fifth wheel/gooseneck hitch is shown on the Trailering Information Label.



https://www.gmc.com/bypass/pcf/gma-c...2022MAY_3P.pdf

It's on page 323.

[B17drvr]

Originally Posted by hikingcamera

Yeah today’s trucks are far more capable according to their manufacturers. I am not as familiar with GMC, but go back to 2016, and on paper an F-350 can’t tow a 25-foot Airstream without a WDH. I’m not professing to know whether that is actually true in practice, but if you are going by the letter of the specs, it’s there in their tow guide.

Here is the 2023 guide. W/D not required for Superduty. It is for the F150.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...uide_Nov22.pdf

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by hikingcamera

Hmmm... can't exceed the curb weight... that seems problematic.

.....

Hi

Curb weight + payload = max vehicle weight. Seems like they are doing a lot of very basic math for you and putting it on the sticker.

Bob

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi



Curb weight + payload = max vehicle weight. Seems like they are doing a lot of very basic math for you and putting it on the sticker.

But the sticker says you can’t exceeed any of those numbers. If you can’t exceed curb weight, you can’t add anything to your truck.

Originally Posted by B17drvr

Here is the 2023 guide. W/D not required for Superduty. It is for the F150.

Yep, as I said, modern trucks are quite impressive.

[Dick tracy]

Originally Posted by Castaway

I have spent the last month looking at ACTUAL PAYLOADS for a Ford F150 Lariat, the largest that I have found is around 1650 lbs.
I know that getting a 250 would solve my problem but we only tow 2 times a year and the truck is our daily driver.

Load it, weigh it with a properly setup WDH, no more worries.
when you live in the world of theory you will never know.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by B17drvr

Here is the 2023 guide. W/D not required for Superduty. It is for the F150.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...uide_Nov22.pdf

"Required" and "recommended" are two different words, right? If a WDH with SC can help balance your load on your TV, to help improve weight distribution and handling, why wouldn't you want to use one? Arguments about "I have a 1T, or a dually" therefore I don't need a WDH, would seem to have merit with some model AS's for sure. It's all in what you feel you want to use to help control your rig when towing; or not use....your life your choice. I certainly would consider the value of any equipment that can improve my experience.