Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


View Poll Results: How concerned are you about payload?
I watch it very closely and never go over 34 31.19%
I think about it and try to stay below 46 42.20%
Never worry about it 29 26.61%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-27-2023, 05:00 PM   #201
Rivet Master
 
2019 22' Sport
High River , Alberta
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
I'm really not concerned about how "Cloudsplitter" handles on a Gymkhana course at speed, as long as it doesn't sway on the interstate in heavy winds, rain & passing 18 wheelers. KISS.



"Worry... a brain exercise done when it really wants to sleep" RLC



Bob



Yes, thatís how most of us define stability. Thereís more to the debate, but I donít disagree with you.
AlbertF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 05:01 PM   #202
Rivet Master
 
DewTheDew's Avatar
 
2020 30' Classic
Frederick , Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by propchef View Post
We have a BMW X5 with the tow package.

Iíve found several conflicting numbers for payload and tow weights, all for my specific vehicle. Outside of North America, those numbers are consistent across the entire G05 platform. N.A. BMWs come standard with run-flats which arenít great for towing. Replacing them right away and getting the right wheels makes a huge difference.
I doubt that the numbers are "conflicting" so much as they are different for different models and set ups. There are numerous listings for towing capacity and payload for F150s, for instance. That isn't a "conflict". Go by the sticker on your door, not the internet.
DewTheDew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 05:03 PM   #203
Rivet Master
 
2019 22' Sport
High River , Alberta
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 967
How concerned are you about your trucks payload

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpcdoojk View Post
I donít have a dog in this fight, but. What about fuel levels? IE a vehicle weighed with an almost empty gas tank is clearly going to weigh less than it will with a full tank. could that account for the difference between the numbers IE GVWR and Payload?


Curb weight includes full fuel and fluids, spare tire, etc. No passengers or cargo.

In my vehicles, the fuel only weighs about 125 lbs. Not enough to account for the difference.
AlbertF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 05:07 PM   #204
Rivet Master
 
2019 22' Sport
High River , Alberta
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewTheDew View Post
I doubt that the numbers are "conflicting" so much as they are different for different models and set ups. There are numerous listings for towing capacity and payload for F150s, for instance. That isn't a "conflict". Go by the sticker on your door, not the internet.

Thatís exactly what I do. Front and rear GAWRs, GVWR, and actual curb weight. My tow vehicle weighs 3800 lbs, but according to the internet itís only 3527!
AlbertF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 05:15 PM   #205
4 Rivet Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewTheDew View Post
I doubt that the numbers are "conflicting" so much as they are different for different models and set ups. There are numerous listings for towing capacity and payload for F150s, for instance. That isn't a "conflict". Go by the sticker on your door, not the internet.

I think you missed the part where I said differences for my specific vehicle, not different models or specs.

If they arenít the same payload and hitch numbers for the same vehicle I call that a conflict.
propchef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 07:38 PM   #206
4 Rivet Member
 
CWSWine's Avatar
 
1994 28' Excella
Manhattan , Kansas
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikingcamera View Post
Hmmm... can't exceed the curb weight... that seems problematic.

Tongue weight specs seem often overlooked. I've seen several confident 3/4 ton truck owners who claimed they were in spec even though the unloaded tongue weight of their trailer was exceeding the manufacturer's specs without a WDH.
Most 1500 I looked at had a tongue max weight of around 950 pounds and there was no mention of it with or without WD this sticker is on the door jam and not on the hitch. I downloaded the manual for 2022 and there wasn't any mention of without our with WD just don't exceed the limits.
__________________
Dennis & Ellie
1994 Excella Classic Unlimited 28 Foot
2017 RAM 2500 Gas 3170 Payload
and
2017 Newmar Ventana Class A DP 7224 Payload
CWSWine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 08:10 PM   #207
Rivet Master
 
hikingcamera's Avatar
 
2022 23' Flying Cloud
Seattle , Washington
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 810
How concerned are you about your trucks payload

Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
Most 1500 I looked at had a tongue max weight of around 950 pounds and there was no mention of it with or without WD this sticker is on the door jam and not on the hitch. I downloaded the manual for 2022 and there wasn't any mention of without our with WD just don't exceed the limits.

Yeah todayís trucks are far more capable according to their manufacturers. I am not as familiar with GMC, but go back to 2016, and on paper an F-350 canít tow a 25-foot Airstream without a WDH. Iím not professing to know whether that is actually true in practice, but if you are going by the letter of the specs, itís there in their tow guide.

(Ref: 2016 Ford Towing Guide, page 37, https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1240.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	338.8 KB
ID:	429549  
hikingcamera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 08:14 PM   #208
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,068
Images: 5
My 2015 chevy 1500 says 1200# max tw on the receiver...but it is a maxtow. Payload = 2034.
Ltz double cab with a lot of whistles, but without the bells that weigh a lot.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 08:24 PM   #209
4 Rivet Member
 
CWSWine's Avatar
 
1994 28' Excella
Manhattan , Kansas
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikingcamera View Post
Yeah todayís trucks are far more capable according to their manufacturers. I am not as familiar with GMC, but go back to 2016, and on paper an F-350 canít tow a 25-foot Airstream without a WDH. Iím not professing to know whether that is actually true in practice, but if you are going by the letter of the specs, itís there in their tow guide.

(Ref: 2016 Ford Towing Guide, page 37, https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/)
That was true in 2016 but in 2022 they have a rating called the Max tongue weight listed on the door jam that doesn't mention WD at all. In 2022 their ratings not only for Max Tongue Weight but Max Gooseneck Rating (5th wheel) which there wasn't in 2016.
__________________
Dennis & Ellie
1994 Excella Classic Unlimited 28 Foot
2017 RAM 2500 Gas 3170 Payload
and
2017 Newmar Ventana Class A DP 7224 Payload
CWSWine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 08:32 PM   #210
4 Rivet Member
 
CWSWine's Avatar
 
1994 28' Excella
Manhattan , Kansas
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
My 2015 chevy 1500 says 1200# max tw on the receiver...but it is a maxtow. Payload = 2034.
Ltz double cab with a lot of whistles, but without the bells that weigh a lot.
Yes in 2015 It probably said that but now if you buy a 2022 or newer it is going to have a door tag (not on the hitch) that states Max Tongue Weight and doesn't anywhere on the tag or in the manual anything about with or without WD. Here is a door tag off of a 2022 GM 1500. This tag says 1911 payload but 950 Max Tongue Weight. See the image below...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Chevy Door Tag.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	95.3 KB
ID:	429550  
__________________
Dennis & Ellie
1994 Excella Classic Unlimited 28 Foot
2017 RAM 2500 Gas 3170 Payload
and
2017 Newmar Ventana Class A DP 7224 Payload
CWSWine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 09:03 PM   #211
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,068
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
Yes in 2015 It probably said that but now if you buy a 2022 or newer it is going to have a door tag (not on the hitch) that states Max Tongue Weight and doesn't anywhere on the tag or in the manual anything about with or without WD. Here is a door tag off of a 2022 GM 1500. This tag says 1911 payload but 950 Max Tongue Weight. See the image below...
To be honest, and I have no definitive proof, just years as a rep...I don't think the max matters to the receiver. The dead weight torques one way....wd applies the torque the other way. I think the ratings were more applicable to how the forces effect the rear axle load.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 09:12 PM   #212
Rivet Master
 
SSquared's Avatar
 
2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
Longmont , Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,060
Look closely at that GM sticker and you will see that it does NOT give the max tongue weight rating for the vehicle. Instead, it gives the max tongue weight for which the vehicle passed the SAE J2807 tests. The SAE tests are always run with a 10% tongue weight.

Suppose a vehicle has a 1000 pound receiver. But when they do the SAE "Davis Dam" hill climb test, it overheats at any trailer weight over 9000 pounds. Then the J2807 test result is 9000 pounds trailer weight, and 900 pounds tongue weight. GM will put those numbers on the door sticker, and there will be no way for us to know about the 1000 pound receiver.

In the case of the 2023 Chevy 1500 with 6.2L engine and Max trailering option, the GCWR goes up by 1300 pounds when you go from 18 inch wheels to 20 inch wheels (probably because it does better on the J2807 stability test). That increases the tow rating and tongue weight rating. Does anybody think changing wheel size improves receiver strength?

GM is providing incomplete information.
SSquared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 09:23 PM   #213
3 Rivet Member
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
Broward , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
Yes in 2015 It probably said that but now if you buy a 2022 or newer it is going to have a door tag (not on the hitch) that states Max Tongue Weight and doesn't anywhere on the tag or in the manual anything about with or without WD. Here is a door tag off of a 2022 GM 1500. This tag says 1911 payload but 950 Max Tongue Weight. See the image below...
The owner's manual does say that you need a WD hitch for trailers over 7000 lbs (6000 lbs for a diesel).
Andy543 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 10:18 PM   #214
4 Rivet Member
 
CWSWine's Avatar
 
1994 28' Excella
Manhattan , Kansas
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 357
Here is what it says in the manual of 2022 GM 1500.

Trailer Weight Ratings
When towing a trailer, the combined weight of the vehicle, vehicle contents, trailer, and trailer contents must be below all of the maximum weight ratings for the vehicle, including:
. Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)
. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
. Maximum Trailer Weight Rating
. Gross Axle Weight Rating-Rear (GAWR-RR)
. Maximum Trailer Tongue Weight Rating

---------------

The Maximum Trailer Tongue Weight Rating for a conventional trailer hitch or a fifth wheel/gooseneck hitch is shown on the Trailering Information Label.

https://www.gmc.com/bypass/pcf/gma-c...2022MAY_3P.pdf
__________________
Dennis & Ellie
1994 Excella Classic Unlimited 28 Foot
2017 RAM 2500 Gas 3170 Payload
and
2017 Newmar Ventana Class A DP 7224 Payload
CWSWine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2023, 10:56 PM   #215
3 Rivet Member
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
Broward , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
Here is what it says in the manual of 2022 GM 1500.



Trailer Weight Ratings

When towing a trailer, the combined weight of the vehicle, vehicle contents, trailer, and trailer contents must be below all of the maximum weight ratings for the vehicle, including:

. Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)

. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)

. Maximum Trailer Weight Rating

. Gross Axle Weight Rating-Rear (GAWR-RR)

. Maximum Trailer Tongue Weight Rating



---------------



The Maximum Trailer Tongue Weight Rating for a conventional trailer hitch or a fifth wheel/gooseneck hitch is shown on the Trailering Information Label.



https://www.gmc.com/bypass/pcf/gma-c...2022MAY_3P.pdf
It's on page 323.
Andy543 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2023, 07:06 AM   #216
2 Rivet Member
 
2023 28' Pottery Barn
2019 23' International
Tomball , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikingcamera View Post
Yeah todayís trucks are far more capable according to their manufacturers. I am not as familiar with GMC, but go back to 2016, and on paper an F-350 canít tow a 25-foot Airstream without a WDH. Iím not professing to know whether that is actually true in practice, but if you are going by the letter of the specs, itís there in their tow guide.
Here is the 2023 guide. W/D not required for Superduty. It is for the F150.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...uide_Nov22.pdf
B17drvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2023, 07:17 AM   #217
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikingcamera View Post
Hmmm... can't exceed the curb weight... that seems problematic.

.....
Hi

Curb weight + payload = max vehicle weight. Seems like they are doing a lot of very basic math for you and putting it on the sticker.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2023, 07:37 AM   #218
Rivet Master
 
hikingcamera's Avatar
 
2022 23' Flying Cloud
Seattle , Washington
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 810
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi



Curb weight + payload = max vehicle weight. Seems like they are doing a lot of very basic math for you and putting it on the sticker.
But the sticker says you canít exceeed any of those numbers. If you canít exceed curb weight, you canít add anything to your truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B17drvr View Post
Here is the 2023 guide. W/D not required for Superduty. It is for the F150.

Yep, as I said, modern trucks are quite impressive.
hikingcamera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2023, 10:36 AM   #219
4 Rivet Member
 
Dick tracy's Avatar
 
2021 27' International
Camas , Washington
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 293
Blog Entries: 1
Load it, weigh it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castaway View Post
I have spent the last month looking at ACTUAL PAYLOADS for a Ford F150 Lariat, the largest that I have found is around 1650 lbs.
I know that getting a 250 would solve my problem but we only tow 2 times a year and the truck is our daily driver.

Load it, weigh it with a properly setup WDH, no more worries.
when you live in the world of theory you will never know.
__________________
2021 International 27 FBT - 2019 F150 Harley Davidson
2017 FC 23 FB - 2002 Range Rover
Dick tracy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2023, 11:56 AM   #220
Rivet Master
 
gypsydad's Avatar
 
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Georgetown (winter)Thayne (summer) , Texas & Wyoming
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by B17drvr View Post
Here is the 2023 guide. W/D not required for Superduty. It is for the F150.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...uide_Nov22.pdf
"Required" and "recommended" are two different words, right? If a WDH with SC can help balance your load on your TV, to help improve weight distribution and handling, why wouldn't you want to use one? Arguments about "I have a 1T, or a dually" therefore I don't need a WDH, would seem to have merit with some model AS's for sure. It's all in what you feel you want to use to help control your rig when towing; or not use....your life your choice. I certainly would consider the value of any equipment that can improve my experience.
__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road!
2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, 6.7L, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer-Star Valley Ranch RV Resort (Thayne, WY); Winter-Sun City (Georgetown,TX)
gypsydad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Show me your vintage trucks. nafets Tow Vehicles 5 12-04-2014 07:38 PM
Mileage for gas trucks vs diesel trucks? mrchinup1 On The Road... 126 04-21-2008 06:43 AM
New trailer isn't level, L-R concerned about my axles Dave Jenkins Axles 17 08-24-2004 02:38 PM
Are You Licensed To Drive One Of These Trucks? thenewkid64 Airstream "In the News" 16 07-20-2004 09:09 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.