Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-23-2008, 11:37 PM   #21
Rivet Master
 
1960 24' Tradewind
santa barbara , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,352
Ill respond to lieppers posts real quickly .It sounds like you have not had the experience of having someone pull right infront of you or your trailer brakes failing down a grade .Possibly the experience of rich luhres tail of his wheels rolling down the hill from broken wheel studs ,his brakes overheating and so on .it absolutly does
happen and the crashes weve seen on the highway and experiences of other forum members like thecatsandi come to mind ,crash of her airstream and pickup on a snowy road ,not the freeway either ,all excellent reasons to be prepared ,so why argue the point or dimiss peolpe who are thinking out the towing scenario and erring
on good judgment .Im at a loss to understand ,i think its just to argue the point .

Scott
scottanlily is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 08:18 AM   #22
Rivet Master
 
1975 29' Ambassador
Reno , Nevada
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,351
It is indeed really amazing! now we have the gang up on unpleasant ideas phenomena!

Yes, *it happens; there is a surfeit of idiots out on the road; all drivers needs to be prepared. But take a look at the reaction here. Take a look at the assumptions being made, what assertions are being made, the scenarios being cited and their applicability to the issue at hand.

One thing to note is the selectivity being suggested in who you listen to. I see a 'listen to forum folks who agree with me and not to a dealer who does extensive testing and has a business on the line who does not' - listening to only what you want to hear is not, IMHO, a good way to learn. Then there is the denigration of others' (e.g. mine) experience when what is being said is disagreeable - don't you think it would be better to deal with the substance of the issue rather than to try to denigrate the person raising it?

Also note the value judgments such as about the "right way" to do things that is unconditional and absolute - but not qualified or supported in a rational way.

The FUD mongering about brakes is just that. Yes mechanical systems can fail. Mechanical failure is definitely something to warrant concern. That doesn't mean confusing going down hill in the wrong gear with the entirely different situation of a panic stop is pertinent.

Also note that questions raised were ignored, points bypassed, qualified opinions ignored, and issues diverted.

I don't think using an Ody to tow a Sovereign is anywhere near as far out of the distribution as some of the arguments being made here to rationalize it being a bad idea. That doesn't mean that the Ody would be a 'normal' tow vehicle but rather that some folks are reaching very very far into the fringes to explain their opinions about why it shouldn't be.
bryanl is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 09:29 AM   #23
Rivet Master
 
HiHoAgRV's Avatar

 
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,919
Images: 29
Blog Entries: 49
There's at least one Honda/Airstream combo running the road. Last November I spotted the same unit twice in Natchez but never caught up with them to talk. They were towing a new 25' size, possibly heavier than a vintage 31'
__________________
Hi Ho Silver RV! Vernon, Sarah, Mac the Border Collie(RIP) -
A honkin' long 34' named AlumaTherapy https://www.airforums.com/forums/f20...num-54749.html
and a 26' '63 Overlander, Dolly https://www.airforums.com/forums/f10...ome-71609.html
HiHoAgRV is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 10:36 AM   #24
Rivet Master
 
Road Ruler's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
St. Catharines , South Western Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,367
Images: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV View Post
There's at least one Honda/Airstream combo running the road.
There are a lot more than just one. Check out posts #8 and #10....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...lot-40240.html
__________________
Airstreams..... The best towing trailers on the planet!
Road Ruler is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 01:32 PM   #25
Rivet Master
 
mrmossyone's Avatar
 
1975 Argosy 24
Collierville , Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 727
Images: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper View Post
The Ody tow rating serves purposes other than helping folks determine what it will tow. OdyClub Forums has a number of discussions about towing with the Ody. Can Am RV in Ontario has helped a number of folks configure rigs that might not otherwise seem suitable to make comfortable (and safe) combinations.

The Ody has a 250 HP engine so it has the power. For the 2000's the weak spot may be the transmission but that can be handled with proper cooling.

i.e. towing with the Ody may make the weight police blanch but it can be done if the appropriate considerations are taken.

The 2000 model did not have the 250 hp motor. I'll elaborate, it had a 210 hp motor until 2004 when it got a 240 hp motor and then in 2005 up to 250hp.
__________________
Different strokes for different folks!

I never learned from a man who agreed with me.
Heinlein
mrmossyone is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 01:49 PM   #26
Rivet Master
 
mrmossyone's Avatar
 
1975 Argosy 24
Collierville , Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 727
Images: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper View Post
It is indeed really amazing! now we have the gang up on unpleasant ideas phenomena!
Happens on here all the time dude, if you don't listen to them and do as they do then you're a friggen idiot, even if you have had different personal experiences.

I like the way you think, appreciative sentiments previoulsy known here as Karma are coming your way.
__________________
Different strokes for different folks!

I never learned from a man who agreed with me.
Heinlein
mrmossyone is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 04:38 PM   #27
Rivet Master
 
1975 29' Ambassador
Reno , Nevada
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
The 2000 model did not have the 250 hp motor. I'll elaborate, it had a 210 hp motor
Thanks for the clarification. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference as normal use doesn't really need that much power (Consider that 80,000 lb semis often only have 300 - 500 hp) It is the tranny and gearing that is more of a concern, especially on the pre 2005 Ody's.

I think that the increases in power and efficiency of modern vehicle engines and transmissions are an amazing advance that often seems taken for granted. It used to be that slogging up highway grades was accepted as a fact of life but now it seems expected that even an 8% grade shouldn't slow you down no matter the load or elevation.

Quote:
Happens on here all the time dude
yeah, I know. One of my pet causes is for better civility in these discussions so that some of the more interesting voices are less inhibited about offering their insights. I figure exposure is probably a good first step.

At the Western Pacific Ralroad Museum rally this past weekend I couldn't help but look at those locomotives (600,000 hp! ?) and think about the tow vehicles some folks seem to think appropriate. ;-) I guess Don has a bit more practical approach (see GOAL: Get Out And Look! on Zephyrs). Jerry says they used to have a smaller locomotive (only 6,000 hp?) in a parade in Hawthorne - that could look interesting towing an Airstream.
bryanl is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 07:18 PM   #28
Liquid Cooled
 
RedSHED's Avatar
 
2017 27' Flying Cloud
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
near Indy , Indiana
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 741
Images: 2
A couple years ago I looked at the then new Pilot. It too had a 3500 lb towing capacity, but it had the added restriction of 25 square feet of frontal area.

My recollection is that this was to keep the transmission from leaking out the magic juice that makes it run, but I could be mistaken.
RedSHED is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 07:22 PM   #29
Liquid Cooled
 
RedSHED's Avatar
 
2017 27' Flying Cloud
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
near Indy , Indiana
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 741
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper View Post
...
At the Western Pacific Ralroad Museum rally this past weekend I couldn't help but look at those locomotives (600,000 hp! ?) and think about the tow vehicles some folks seem to think appropriate. ;-) I guess Don has a bit more practical approach (see GOAL: Get Out And Look! on Zephyrs). Jerry says they used to have a smaller locomotive (only 6,000 hp?) in a parade in Hawthorne - that could look interesting towing an Airstream.
Slightly OT, but I'm thinking there are only two or three locomotives over 6000 HP. A couple of the larger steam engines approached that, then after a wait of 40-50 years some of the GE and EMD units hit that range.

I agree about the 80000 lbs on 300 hp. I think you'll see lots more of that.
RedSHED is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 08:11 PM   #30
Rivet Master
 
davidz71's Avatar
 
1986 25' Sovereign
Southern Middle , Tennessee
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,319
Images: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper View Post
ya' know, it gets really interesting the degree to which folks go to try to refute some things (or individuals). Knee jerk responses are just as dangerous in these discussions as they are on the road IMHO.

Do you really advocate sudden maneuvers with an RV as a general means to avoid disaster? Really?

Do you really think it a good idea to tell a newbie that he should swing the steering wheel to avoid things with his RV? Really?

What would happen if your "slightly" was 'slightly too much' ?? Perhaps you have the experience to know how much steering at what speed you can get away with but do you think it good advice to suggest others work that line as a general thing? Really?

And just what is an "emergency maneuver" anyway? Is it a slight change in steering or is it an effort to make a sudden large change in direction?

What you can get away with or what you may have survived is one thing. Those incidents may even provide material for examples and be useful if they can provide insight into general rules or concepts. Otherwise, it pays to consider just what you might be suggesting as driving advice and to whom you suggest it.
Don't blow this out of proportion! I checked out the right lane, applied the brakes (didn't stab them to the floor) until I realized that the trailer brakes had not responded as quickly as I had hoped, then steered past the jerk. You weren't there, you don't know my truck, Hensley Arrow and trailer combination so give it a break. Yes, slamming on brakes and jerking the steering wheel can very well cause a jack knife. Fortunately I have 4 wheeled for many years on dirt roads and mud as well as taken our department's defensive driving and pursuit course. I don't claim to be an expert but I'd do the same thing again tomorrow if faced with the same situation. You do what you wish.
__________________
Craig

AIR #0078
'01 2500hd ext. cab, 8.1 litre gas, 5 sp. Allison auto
3.73 rear end
Mag-Hytec rear diff cover
Amsoil Dual by-pass oil filtration system
Amsoil synthetics all around
265 watt AM Solar, Inc. system
davidz71 is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 08:54 PM   #31
"Cloudsplitter"

 
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas , Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
Images: 1
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper View Post

At the Western Pacific Ralroad Museum rally this past weekend I couldn't help but look at those locomotives (600,000 hp! ?) and think about the tow vehicles some folks seem to think appropriate. ;-) I guess Don has a bit more practical approach (see GOAL: Get Out And Look! on Zephyrs). Jerry says they used to have a smaller locomotive (only 6,000 hp?) in a parade in Hawthorne - that could look interesting towing an Airstream.

http://www.quorumcorp.net/Downloads/...tyOverview.pdf
I'd like to see a picture of that 600,000 HP locomotive!!!
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
ROBERT CROSS is offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 11:26 PM   #32
Rivet Master
 
1975 29' Ambassador
Reno , Nevada
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,351
re "I'd like to see a picture of that 600,000 HP locomotive!!!" -- me, too. But that's why the question mark as what I was told didn't make sense (except for hyperbole about some folks tow vehicle preferences ;-) )

I believe this is the vehicle

The history is at Union Pacific's DDA40X Centennial Locomotives - that page indicates a more reasonable 12k hp but I am not sure if it is for half or all of this thing.

I think the weight ratio of this locomotive to an Airstream and also the wheelbase ratios would please some worried about towing capabilities as well - some probably think you'd still have to have a HAHA or a ProPride hitch, though, even when still using rails ...

Quote:
Don't blow this out of proportion!
exactly!

Quote:
It too had a 3500 lb towing capacity
one common error, perhaps a nitpick, but the number isn't a capacity but rather a rating. What I'd like to know is why so many of these cargo vehicles have the same rating. The Honda Pilot uses the same engine with only minor differences (as far as I can tell) in the gearing but has a higher rating. The Ridgeline has a lower hp engine but a higher tow rating.

The note about frontal area is getting into what I think are more pertinent criteria than many we have seen in this thread. I've put enough chicken scratch in the back of my Ody to know how a typical Sovereign tongue load will impact handling so I don't consider that to be much of an issue. I've also seen how the tranny handles engine RPM with loads and some rather steep highway grades so that isn't much of a worry, either. But frontal area representing a continual wind loading could be a factor in overall stress.

Tow ratings just offered on a spec sheet doesn't help much if you don't know what factors are assumed, presumed, and considered in its calculation and the variances involved.

The fact is that GCWR and towed load ratings are dependent upon many factors. IMHO typical abuse of these ratings will have a driver seeking alternatives well before any failure mode for exceeding such ratings is going to appear.
bryanl is offline  
Old 06-25-2008, 12:08 PM   #33
"Cloudsplitter"

 
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas , Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
Images: 1
Thumbs up



6600 hp each

Tow a lot of streams with that
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
ROBERT CROSS is offline  
Old 06-25-2008, 02:45 PM   #34
Ridge Runner
 
1998 34' Excella 1000
Hattiesburg , Mississippi
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5
Won't know untill you try

This is an interesting thread. He wants to pull a 31 ft. trailer with a Ody? He won't know until he tries. Get on some depends and go for it.
__________________
2003 Chevy 2500 HD D/A LS EC SB, Leather Seats, Fog Lamps, Bilstiens Shocks, Nerf Bars, Edge Juice/Attitude , 50 Gal Aux Tank, Jordan Brake Controler, Century Ultra Cap W/Lift Side Windows
1998 34' Airstream Classic, 1400 lb Hensley Arrow Hitch, two EU 2000i Hondas
Ridge Runner is offline  
Old 06-25-2008, 03:21 PM   #35
4 Rivet Member
 
hshovic's Avatar
 
2007 25' Safari FB SE
Bozeman , Montana
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 253
Images: 20
Try these spreadsheets to get a quantitative estimate!

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...tml#post456088
__________________
Hank
WBCCI 1489 AIR 20708
2015 Chevy 3/4 ton 4 x 4 gas; 2007 Safari FB SE
"Its better to light just one candle than to curse the darkness,
Unless you're blinded by the light..."
hshovic is offline  
Old 06-25-2008, 05:14 PM   #36
Rivet Master
 
1975 29' Ambassador
Reno , Nevada
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
You do what you wish
that I'll do, but this isn't the point at issue. The point at issue is generic advice for others that will help them stay out of trouble. We should be setting good examples, not bad ones both in these forums and on the road. The FUD mongering on one side contrasted to the 'see I can to do it' on the other doesn't help anyone.

Quote:
He won't know until he tries.
or borrows from the experience of others who are doing it - such others as often seem to get abused on these forums.

Quote:
Get on some depends and go for it.
This is the common presumption of binary phenomena. I see it a lot as a form of argument - Either something works or it does not with nothing in between. What makes it a rather poor form of argument is that very few of these things actually work that way. Its close cousin is the numbers game as if they have no qualifications and are absolute arbiters of absolute accuracy.

There are many factors to consider and evaluate in context in choosing a tow vehicle. It is really too bad that you cannot discuss them in a forum like this without encountering diapers arguments.
bryanl is offline  
Old 06-26-2008, 11:30 PM   #37
Rivet Master
 
1960 24' Tradewind
santa barbara , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,352
with all due respect liepper, you yourself are engaging in the very thing your crying about ,abiet you are wording it in a more contrived type of dialect .never the less ,
you are in fact disregarding the actual experiences of members such as I and the others posting on this thread , that have in fact been involved in actual situations .
We have a great perspective of BEING THERE ! in those situations ,not only the manuvering from harms way ,but all trailer towing .i see that you complained about being challenged on your view as if it should be off limits ,yet you can in fact continue
to malign those that don't share your view as " arguementative " and so forth .
I also see that your reply here implies that many don't know what there talking about
with there own experiences , davidz71 for starters . you do not address the actual events I stated either so ,one has to conclude therfore that your own opinion is all your concerned about .Ridgerunner has it right ,its not about diapers liepper ,its about getting the CR%#@$ scared out of you ,when things go wrong .Trying somthing different might be fine in some cases ,telling someone he can tow a 30 ft airstream
with a honda minivan when he DOES NOT HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE DOING SO is quite
another thing altogether especially if the vehical is clearly overloaded and your
disregarding hondas tow ratings on top of it all .you guys have to stop looking at the
210 0r 250 horsepower rating ,thats only a small part of it . If you don't want advice
from the folks here that have the real world EXPERIENCE ,don't ask for it .


Scott of scottanlily
scottanlily is offline  
Old 06-27-2008, 08:22 AM   #38
Rivet Master
 
1975 29' Ambassador
Reno , Nevada
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,351
ah yes, now the ad hominem ("contrived type of dialect') and other misperceptions.

"disregarding the actual experiences of members" - I don't think so as I don't see other Ody owners talking about the vehicle and I do see a lot of prognostication about low odds events (brake failure), anticipated fear (diapers), weight absolutes (ratings vs capacity), and other rationalizations. Theorizing is not an actual experience and a lot of what I have seen in this thread is theorizing rather than actual experience.

"to malign those that don't share your view" - I try very hard to malign only the logic used or the conclusion, not the person. There is a very big difference between the behavior and the person. I avoid comments directed to individuals ("with all due respect liepper") and opinions about personal character ("you ...") and unfounded accusation of implications.

I (try to) listen very carefully to those who do not share my views and pay attention to the basis for the views. I also consider my own reactions and responses. That is how I learn. As I noted above, I often get dissapointed because the views I see are based more on ideology and theory than on an effective consideration of factors and issues in the real world. I'd love to discuss the points I raise so I can hone them but, instead, my personality gets razed.

"you do not address the actual events I stated either so ,one has to conclude" - jumping to conclusions about an absence is not a safe activity IMHO. Perhaps I didn't address the topic because I didn't want to be too insulting to someone? Or perhaps because I didn't consider the issue of value in this discussion? Or perhaps I was trying to avoid excess inflamation of the discussion?

"especially if the vehical is clearly overloaded and your disregarding hondas tow ratings" - how do you know the vehicle would be overloaded? Isn't this a presumption created from nothing?

" If you don't want advice from the folks here that have the real world EXPERIENCE ,don't ask for it" - I wasn't the one asking for advice. I am just objecting to what I think is bad advice that seems based on questionable assumptions, a lack of recognition of the factors involved, misperceptions, errors, and a dismissal of the experience of those who have indeed 'been there and done that.'
bryanl is offline  
Old 06-27-2008, 09:47 AM   #39
Vintage Kin
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
Images: 1
I get tired of the assumptions that the unibody and body-on-frame cars of the 1960's and 1970's didn't exist. Or, pull trailers up to around 7,500-lbs (sometimes more) without incident, without extraordinary expense to the owner, for up to (and beyond) 100,000 miles with drum brakes, hydraulic shocks, bias-ply tires and all the rest. They did.

I can see that there are vehicles now that likely can do a nice job, using the criterion of that day and age (Chrysler 300/Charger/Magnum). As well, the TT tires/shocks/brakes/lighting are better, the hitches can be FAR better and roads in general have better signage and markings.

I also don't remember anyone being dumb enough to tow at 70 mph pre-1974 (diesel truck and toyhauler anyone?) I am not in favor of mixing in driver skill in this kind of discussion because the range is huge, but ANYONE driving an RV of any sort ought to have respect for the fact that these are the least-able vehicles/rigs on the road.

My parents, grandparents and I all did this with cars, right into the 1980's. Several hundred thousand miles of the US, Canada and Mexico. (And the unibody Chryslers were the best of these; as well as the high-compression engines of the late 1960's).

Leippers comments are dead-on about the nature of these discussions, even though I advocate knowing what one's rig feels like in an emergency lane change maneuver (which is different than it is in a car, the time for "emergency" is sooner, the steering action less, and hopefully one knows the speed at which this can be done and is not far above it.

Shouting it down, using language that denigrates the other voice, circular reasoning . . . give it a break.

As to whether that Odyssey can haul that trailer, sure, looking at the numbers is the very first consideration. But it doesn't lead to a predetermined answer.
slowmover is offline  
Old 06-27-2008, 09:57 AM   #40
Rivet Master
 
peegreen's Avatar
 
1998 31' Excella 1000
South Berwick , Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 709
I'm not saying right, wrong, indifferent or offering an opinion - I'm just saying that a couple of weeks ago I attended a rally where a guy was pulling his '70's 31' with a Odyssey (year?), and his Dad was pulling his 34' with a Astro van (I think he went to Alaska with it).
__________________
WBCCI 24291
New England Unit
Metropolitan NY Unit
peegreen is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Odyssey Tow Vehicle jjohnston_25 Member Introductions 35 06-23-2009 11:52 AM
Honda EU 3000 vs 2x Honda EU 2000 vajeep Generators & Solar Power 93 07-23-2008 11:02 AM
Honda 2000 polarity screwy??? crazylev Generators & Solar Power 4 09-19-2004 12:29 PM
Time for that second Honda 2000 Raptorrider2001 Our Community 2 06-17-2003 05:57 PM
Honda 2000 smoking on start up Raptorrider2001 Our Community 3 04-05-2003 01:17 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.