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Old 09-02-2018, 09:18 AM   #21
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This is a good opportunity to ask, since you have yet to buy a tow vehicle. why do so many people tow with pickup trucks?

A van has so much more room for a family, and dry easy access to your stuff.

A van coupled to a trailer is more aerodynamic as well!
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:21 AM   #22
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Maybe I'm confused...following your F150 thread, then I see this one? Several of us suggested you look at a 3/4T or larger with the larger AS's and payload/passenger needs...it's not just the payload that is important to consider with all the stuff/people you will be hauling, but the ability of your TV to handle a 27' or larger "easily" while pulling down the road.

Hope you find "nirvana" Narayan, from the advice here... I know, I know...you just want responses relevant to your question in your post, right? Good luck...
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:21 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Being high up in a "modern" truck is a bit crazy. I would *never* go as high as they do if there was a choice. It's way to crazy loading stuff, dogs, and people. It does nothing good to the stability of the vehicle. All that said, being able to see further down the road *is* a plus. Sight distance is very important. Having a bit more reaction time can make a difference. That's a small plus and (to me) some pretty big minus items. 4x2 seems to be the only way to get closer to earth.
The height of this class of truck--maybe even more so than the other dimensions--is what irks me the most. I totally get that superduty trucks are made for work and not families, but given the popularity of this class of vehicle in the towing crowd, it's not clear to me why there isn't a means to get the truck closer to the ground--air suspension or something like that.

Is there any way to modify a 250 to safely handle the towing and payload but sit closer to the ground, or is this just laws-of-physics stuff that are what they are?
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:26 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
Maybe I'm confused...following your F150 thread, then I see this one? Several of us suggested you look at a 3/4T or larger with the larger AS's and payload/passenger needs...it's not just the payload that is important to consider with all the stuff/people you will be hauling, but the ability of your TV to handle a 27' or larger "easily" while pulling down the road.
Gypsydad, I was pretty clear in that thread that I was researching all options, and in this thread I'm pretty clear that I'd prefer a smaller vehicle and why. I'm doing due diligence on towing vehicles in general and found the religious fervor and chest puffing around one class of vehicle vs. another in other threads tiresome and confusing.

Really, I'm hoping people keep it civil here and make these threads an earnest attempt to spec a good vehicle of each class. Not just for me but also for those in the future, who like me, are just looking for information, not a sermon.
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:59 AM   #25
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Well let me say this about that. That was a lot to digest.

I prefer the 6.2 and the 250 for what you are towing.

I love the 3.5L in a 150, if you get the needed options and leave off bells and whistles that render it too heavy to do the job you need it to, I would prefer a 150. A full blown Platinum or Limited probably will be too heavy and payload too low. I don't know this for fact, but think that is the case.

Most guys love the power and are willing to spend more and risk huge expense if and when they have an out of warranty failure. Failures are way too common. The torque is very impressive, simply not needed. If you needed it, that would be a different story. Diesels are not the super long life machines they once were... the EPA has pretty much killed that. People remember the engines of old and think the new ones will last and are almost trouble free.

If you were getting a diesel, get the longest and best extended warranty you can find. And if going diesel, do not stop with a 250... go to a SRW 350. Payload for a 250 diesel is in the 150 range.

I don't think Max trailering is a Super Duty option set. Of course, make sure you have all the towing goodies.

The trim level you want is entirely up to you, how deep is your pockets. I like the XLT with Nav and backup camera. I don't care about fold out steps or electric folding mirrors, but have to have side steps and the tailgate stepto me. I would not have a 4x2 truck. Of all the "wow" options on the new trucks, that 360 degree camera and blind spot warning features are pretty darn nice. Every goodie reduces cargo but if staying gas engine you should still be okay. But, don't take my word for that.

My 2017 F250 came with 10K GVWR and a 3295# cargo capacity with 12,500# towing. I simply could not be happier with those figures. I also love the color... Magnetic... nice contrast to the AS. Mine has the 3.73 gear sets, 4.10 would have increased towing to 15K, but don't need that. Its also a Super Crew with 6.75' bed. My truck has electric and manual hubs and the rear axle can be locked up. I bought a tonneau cover, got the spray in bed liner and dark window tint. UV film even on windshield... all after market.

The only downside to the truck is its height. A 4x4 250 is already too tall but mine came with snowplow prep package, so it got even taller front springs. I believe my truck bed height is around 8" higher than my brothers F150.

Many want to talk MPG. If MPG was a deal breaker I would own a Ridgeline, but it isn't. My truck gets high 14s to low 15s solo and high 11s to low 12s towing a 23FB. These are actual by hand calculated numbers.

If I was specing a 150 (or ordering another 250 for that matter), I would get the camper option truck. You can't build one on the Ford site, its actually just a toy and dealers / sales people amaze me how little they know about trucks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narayan View Post
Am I correct in thinking that the only major decision to make is gas or disel, and that any 250 with the max tow package is more than capable of carrying my family and gear and towing my trailer?

Base config for the 250:
  • 6.2 FlexFuel (I'm really hoping I don't need diesel) / 4 x 4
  • CrewCab / 6-3/4' bed
  • Tonneau cover & bike rack

In Lariat Trim:
  • Lariat Ultimate package
  • Tow Technology package
  • Tailgate step
  • Power running boards
  • Misc accessories

In Platinum Trim:
  • Platinum Ultimate package

.
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Old 09-02-2018, 10:09 AM   #26
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I have a 2015 Chevy 2500 Duramax LTZ with every option available. My door sticker payload says 2267 lbs.
Would you care to explain what this has to do with an F250?

From Ford's 2018 Towing Guide, the MAX THEORETICAL (i.e. XL, before options) payload for a long-box crew-cab F250 4x4 with the diesel is 1560 lb. The STICKERED all-options-included payload on the door pillar on my F150 Lariat Supercrew 4x4 is 1623. The gas-engine F250 in otherwise the same configuration as the Power Stroke I mentioned previously has 2389 lb of payload.
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Old 09-02-2018, 10:41 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narayan View Post
Gypsydad, I was pretty clear in that thread that I was researching all options, and in this thread I'm pretty clear that I'd prefer a smaller vehicle and why. I'm doing due diligence on towing vehicles in general and found the religious fervor and chest puffing around one class of vehicle vs. another in other threads tiresome and confusing.

Really, I'm hoping people keep it civil here and make these threads an earnest attempt to spec a good vehicle of each class. Not just for me but also for those in the future, who like me, are just looking for information, not a sermon.
OK; We chose the F250 King Ranch 6.7D, 4x4 w/6.5'bed because we were towing a larger 28'AS this go around. We liked the Platinum "features" in our F150EB 4x4 with our 2 25's, but we wanted/needed more capability with the larger 28' AS this time, plus we are towing to/from TX/MT and lots of time in the Rockies in the summer. We put 36K miles on the truck and 17K miles on the AS last year. We chose the King Ranch because it offered the brown interior; the Platinum model only had black/charcoal interior.

You mention your concern on the height of the F250 off the ground; the retracting running boards for entry/exit make it a lot easier to load and were a "must have" in my wife's opinion...(same on our Platinum). You can get them on other models also; like them much better then the fixed running boards. The retractable step in the tailgate is a must also, from my opinion; easy access and loading. The 360 cameras are a great asset, along with the automatic engine brake, lane change sensor, collision avoidance, and all the bells and whistles. Have not tried the automatic parking features. Don't really need it with the camera on the trailer and my wife helping park. To sum up our likes: engine, engine brakes, retractable running boards, cameras, payload, 4x4 capability when needed, overall size is 1ft longer then F150, and size matches well for us. Mileage is 13.5 pulling on average at 65~ 17-18mpg when not towing. We carry a 95lb dual fuel generator, extra 20lb propane bottle, camping gear, fire wood, gas bbq grill, kayaks, and Yeti 65qt cooler in the rear. I use an Xtang tri-fold hard bed cover; had this on my F150 also. Allows access to cooler or rear without opening the entire cover. I fold it all the way when I use the kayak with the Thule racks.

The downside of the F250 from my perspective is the maneuvering in town when not towing; it takes some patience for parking in a lot, but the cameras help a lot...we use them all the time as others pointed out. Other big issue is overall cost to operate; diesel, oil changes, etc...are quite a bit more than the gas F150. Many folks like the gas version of the F250; the service manager at the dealer where I purchased in Austin said he owns 2017 F250 gas model, pulls a 30' SOB, and he said he wishes he had got the 6.7L D. Said the engine brake and torque are missed in the gas model. And that's my input for you, Narayan. Hope that helps you on your quest...

One last thing...I did recently purchase the extended 100K 5 year warranty...waited till I had 34K miles, before purchasing...cost me a couple hundred more by waiting, but it's thru Ford. I did get the "employee pricing" so it cost me $2200 additional.; would have been $2k if I had got it initially.

Also purchased the windshield warranty for $500 last year...it covers both cracks and full replacment...we went thru 3 windshields and 8 different crack repairs with our F150...F250- only one ding in first 1.5 years of ownership...I think the warranty may help deflect rocks! LoL
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Old 09-02-2018, 10:47 AM   #28
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It's curious to me that in these threads, how easily it is to convince ourselves we need more. More power. More capacity. More truck. I get it, and I've been there. We all need more capability, for that off chance when we actually need more. With regret that we didn't buy enough?

Only point is that more doesn't come with cost. The literal cost of procurement and sustainment. There are other factors too besides form factor. One of the major penalties for more payload capacity, if the capacity is not in use, is ride quality.

Sure, they've improved ride quality on the F250/350s over the years. But so has every other vehicle! It fundamentally comes down to spring rate. More spring, means a stiffer ride. For those full-timing with lots of gear always in the bed, it makes the spring rates appropriate for the job. If one is just running with an empty bed, the ride is going to be punishing. Truck people might be use to this and excuse the truckish ride as "good". I think not. Get more spring if you need it. Otherwise, opting for all those camper/plow/F350 rates is only for ego boosting numbers.
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Old 09-02-2018, 10:57 AM   #29
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@pteck--yep. I'm trying to get away with enough to be safe. I'm not a truck guy and am doing this somewhat reluctantly.

@gypsydad--really helpful, thanks. I, like you, want a truck with some creature comforts for the family. It's annoying to me that if I spec HD payload on the 150 I can't get a build with premium stereo. But it is equally annoying to me that I can't get a 250 that will fit in my garage...

I hear you on the windshield replacement. I've had to replace two on my Volvo and at $500 a pop through my insurance company it's annoying. I've also heard that on a trip to Alaska you should budget at least one windshield...

Thanks again.
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Old 09-02-2018, 11:28 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-n-Janet View Post
I disagree regarding the tailgate step. Thought it would be stupid, but is in fact very useful and would always consider getting one on any future truck. To get in and out of the bed to fasten/unfasten kayaks or move generator to the back to run, it makes life MUCH easier. Normally I forgo pulling out the vertical bar that can be used as a grab bar and just use the step.

Same here. I didn't want it but ended up purchasing a truck off the lot and it was already there. Turns out I use it all the time.


One option I wish I had is the 360 degree camera. That would be useful.
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Old 09-02-2018, 11:32 AM   #31
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I know this is about F250. But if we are in the 3/4 ton area. If you are thinking about a diesel I would consider the RAM cummins only because it comes with 100,000 mile warranty. Just a thought. It also gets better gas mileage than the Ford powerstroke.

My son-in-law has Cummins RAM 3500 and gets 23mpg driving on the freeway. Anyway back to the F250.

By the way if you get an F250 get a tail gate step. I have an F150 and wish I had one. Bought a small step ladder that I carry along.
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Old 09-02-2018, 11:38 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post

The only option I have found utterly useless is the "ladder" that pops out of the tailgate. It's there to make it easier to get into the bed. If you are a "full sized" person, the thing is a complete joke. My guess is that the target audience is under the age of ten ....
I guess I'm unclear on your definition of "full sized" then. I can see if you're proportioned like a basketball player how it might be easy to step into the bed of a modern 4x4, maybe you mean a full 2 meters tall as "full-sized"? As a short-legged fat guy of average height (5'9") I find the tailgate step very useful in my 4x4 F150 that's considerably closer to the ground than a 4x4 F250.

I'd guess I'm not the only pickup truck buyer who loves the step, since the new GM twins have an even-more-fiddly step built into their complex tailgate.
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:56 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
I guess I'm unclear on your definition of "full sized" then. I can see if you're proportioned like a basketball player how it might be easy to step into the bed of a modern 4x4, maybe you mean a full 2 meters tall as "full-sized"? As a short-legged fat guy of average height (5'9") I find the tailgate step very useful in my 4x4 F150 that's considerably closer to the ground than a 4x4 F250.



I'd guess I'm not the only pickup truck buyer who loves the step, since the new GM twins have an even-more-fiddly step built into their complex tailgate.


I am 6 foot, thin, and quite agile and wish I had it. As I said I carry a small aluminum ladder in bed. But my wife is 5’6 and it would be handy for her.
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:57 PM   #34
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Off-Topic!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bibbs View Post
This is a good opportunity to ask, since you have yet to buy a tow vehicle. why do so many people tow with pickup trucks?

A van has so much more room for a family, and dry easy access to your stuff.

A van coupled to a trailer is more aerodynamic as well!
These "van tow vehicle" search results point to good info IMO: https://www.google.com/search?q=van+...=airforums.com

I would encourage you to explore those threads as there are some good answers, which basically boil down to "limited towing capacity" for new vans.

These threads in particular are good IMO:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...se-171397.html
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...le-144015.html

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PS -- Click on orange arrow in quote to go to the following post in the first thread linked above. Later posts are a good read about towing capacity:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Echoing earlier comments, towing with a van is great.
. . .
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Old 09-02-2018, 02:42 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
I know this is about F250. But if we are in the 3/4 ton area. If you are thinking about a diesel I would consider the RAM cummins only because it comes with 100,000 mile warranty. Just a thought. It also gets better gas mileage than the Ford powerstroke.

Also test the Chevy/GMC 2500. I found it to be a little more civil, quiet and easier handling than the Ford and Ram HD's after replacing my F150 Ecoboost. And it was only 2" longer and fits in the garage. Chevy usually offers a 0% financing this time of year as well.
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Old 09-02-2018, 03:03 PM   #36
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I know this is about F250.

By the way if you get an F250 get a tail gate step. I have an F150 and wish I had one. Bought a small step ladder that I carry along.
I have the tailgate step and I still use a small step bench to get to the tailgate step. They need to lower these things!
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Old 09-02-2018, 03:33 PM   #37
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Would you care to explain what this has to do with an F250?
Sure, I'd be glad to. The previous poster to my post stated "high-trim diesel 250s don't have much more payload than the high-payload 150s."
I was simply stating that's not true. The 2500's are very similar in payload capacity to the 250's and I gave my actual door sticker payload on a fully option loaded 2500 diesel. It has considerable more payload than a fully loaded 150.
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Old 09-02-2018, 03:43 PM   #38
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Sure, I'd be glad to. The previous poster to my post stated "high-trim diesel 250s don't have much more payload than the high-payload 150s."
I was simply stating that's not true. The 2500's are very similar in payload capacity to the 250's and I gave my actual door sticker payload on a fully option loaded 2500 diesel. It has considerable more payload than a fully loaded 150.
The whole thread is about the F250. I made no statement about GM products so your point has nothing to do with the thread or my statement. Thread is about F250, when I wrote "high-trim diesel 250s" I was referring to the F250, not a GM 2500. You also significantly abbreviated what I wrote when I asked how this relates to the F250... you know, the one where I pointed out a specific config of the diesel F250 with less payload than my average-payload F150?
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Old 09-02-2018, 06:32 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
I guess I'm unclear on your definition of "full sized" then. I can see if you're proportioned like a basketball player how it might be easy to step into the bed of a modern 4x4, maybe you mean a full 2 meters tall as "full-sized"? As a short-legged fat guy of average height (5'9") I find the tailgate step very useful in my 4x4 F150 that's considerably closer to the ground than a 4x4 F250.

I'd guess I'm not the only pickup truck buyer who loves the step, since the new GM twins have an even-more-fiddly step built into their complex tailgate.
I was thinking he meant "wears pants with a high waist/inseam ratio" as that step (handy for me at 5'6") does not appear very substantial and I'd worry about using it if I were much heavier.
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Old 09-02-2018, 06:45 PM   #40
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I was thinking he meant "wears pants with a high waist/inseam ratio" as that step (handy for me at 5'6") does not appear very substantial and I'd worry about using it if I were much heavier.
It does just fine with 270 lb plus what I've carried up it, though usually if it's something seriously heavy I'll drop it on the tailgate before I climb up.
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