GM to stop Manufacturing Gas & Diesel Vehicles by 2035

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Figuring out / innovating how to produce loads of clean and renewable electricity and storage thereof is a lot easier than magically making a limited, non-renewable resource last forever. We must change and evolve to survive as a species. Why not now?

Just not sure why where would be any resistance to change on this front.

EVs do not solve for all use cases today. But we need to embrace innovation and change, whatever those future platforms will be, ultimately.

I'm not sure what the issue is though. The free market does a perfect job of innovating to transition from a dwindling supply to a more plentiful one. It doesn't need any help or encouragment to do that.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Bobbo

I want to thank you. Do you know how rare it is for the EV crowd to admit that an EV is not right for me? Usually, I get lectures about how I need to change what I do so an EV will be right for me.

And, BTW, in response to more frequent stops for partial charges, the time spent getting off the interstate, getting to the 'pump', then getting back on the interstate is longer than the actual filling up of the vehicle. Adding more stops for partial charges just multiplies that.

You are most welcome. I don't think much about the label "the EV crowd" because I was not an early adopter, I waited until there was a BEV product that met our needs.

I spent my early years as a mechanic in an independent repair shop. I worked at Ford dealers and similar through university. I spent 24 years with a heavy equipment dealer, responsible for mobile equipment, power generation equipment, both diesel and natural gas, in applications including metallurgical coal mines, copper mines, lithium mines, pipelines, exploration, and so on. After that I led product development teams at a Tier 1 supplier working on natural gas fuel systems for on and off road, using liquified natural gas. All this by way of saying that I don't think I am an EV guy. I have long been a car guy, a truck guy, and an engine guy. The EV is just the latest iteration. All of the above are essentially just tools to do a job.

If we can take the heat out of it, with people having reasonable conversations without ideology taking over, I think it is better for all of us.

[LNBright]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

I'm surprised by those who sing the praises of hybirds and electric vehicles but trash coal and natural gas power plants. Where do they think the vast majority of that electricity comes from? Do they have any idea the relative cleanliness of a modern coal or NG power plant vs. that Hybrid engine? Do they consider the pollution generated in mining materials for those electric motors and batteries?

I work in coal mine reclamation. I completely get how surprisingly clean a new coal power plant 'can' be. However, I don't think we're going to see many of those clean coal plants have a chance of being built anymore. Natural gas supplanted coal quickly: just set a jet engine up on it's end hooked to a pipeline and you can have a little gas generator. But the shale-gas boom is going to peter out eventually, and the coal plants that were shuttered for the natural gas aren't coming back online.

I'm a "not all my eggs in one basket" guy. I like the idea of a mix: sure, have solar, have some wind power, keep the hydroelectrics that we have running, keep the better coal plants and the natural gas plants. But for future electric growth, it really should be nuclear.

[BayouBiker]

I don't disagree with you Leslie, that may well be the direction things go. In the long run, practical, efficient, workable solutions are the ones that ultimately happen.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by LNBright

I'm a "not all my eggs in one basket" guy. I like the idea of a mix: sure, have solar, have some wind power, keep the hydroelectrics that we have running, keep the better coal plants and the natural gas plants. But for future electric growth, it really should be nuclear.

I agree. But When was the last time a nuclear plant was built in the US? And why? Because chicken little sold fear to the public. I know! There’s Fukushima and Chernobyl..... both gross engineering malpractice. There are plenty of nukes that are properly built and run. They produce plenty of clean energy.

Years ago work started on a Fast Breeder Reactor (Clint River). The idea was, between a fast breeder, regular fission plants, and the fuel reprocessing plants, the current supply of uranium would be stretched to last thousands of years. Project got shut down because of anti nuke sentiment.

After watching the Chicken Little crowd over the years I believe they’ll find fault with anything that shows promise and start selling fear. Why? Don’t know. Your guess.

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by jcl

If people are concerned about power lines and what they look like, they should make sure to visit an oil refinery, or even better, an oil exploration and production site. Fort McMurray, home to the oil sands, comes to mind.

The oft quoted reason for the lack of new oil refineries in North America is that nobody wants one in their backyard. Same for nuclear.

Definitely agree with you on this. We traveled through New Mexico yesterday. Whew, no refineries, but lots of drilling and pumps. Not a very pleasant smell either. In the middle of nowhere though.
One neighbor at the farm is concerned that the power lines will interfere with gps management of farming (fertilizer application, planting, harvesting etc..) all done automatically now via gps.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

Definitely agree with you on this. We traveled through New Mexico yesterday. Whew, no refineries, but lots of drilling and pumps. Not a very pleasant smell either. In the middle of nowhere though.
One neighbor at the farm is concerned that the power lines will interfere with gps management of farming (fertilizer application, planting, harvesting etc..) all done automatically now via gps.

In the absence of mandates, it's the collective public that drives what is and what is not acceptable. Yet another hallmark of a free society. Generally, the public accepts the chemical plant, power plant or dam on or along side a river. Out in the middle of nowhere, large obtrusive mechanical objects that can be seen from far distances tend to be more dissonant and unpleasant.

[switz]

The Big 3 are currently putting a lot of their future into the extremely profitable pickup truck market. Ford basically abandoned the automobile (except for the Mustang). GM shuttered many iconic automobile brands. The Big 3 all have diesels in the 6 liter class producing all the power we need to tow an Airstream of any size anywhere in the USA.

The common experience towing the 28' and larger Airstreams is mpg between 11 and 13. I guess we accept that as okay as we keep buying the vintage diesel technology. Due to emissions, the trend is to run the diesels at ever higher temperatures which has created maintenance issues for lots of us.

The relatively universal availability of both gasoline and diesel fuel stations in the US has allowed us the luxury of not thinking outside the box for alternative power sources.

At my age of 76, I hope I can still get around with my current 2012 Cummins powered truck towing our 31' Airstream for many years. There will come a day that I will have to park the Airstream at our summer RV park and leave it there. We will commute from Phoenix in our existing Hybrid 2020 RAV4 or perhaps some type of EV.

There is no free lunch. I look forward to the technology revolution that will somehow have adequate electrical capacity across the entire USA that would allow the EV vehicles to succeed. I believe that lots of dollars, or the current currency, will be necessary to reach this goal.

[gypsydad]

I am not sure any of us are looking forward to spending lots more money on a new TV; I know I am not! I purchased my F250 6.7L to tow my AS for many miles and years...amazing (sad) how the proposed changes will affect our lives as RV owners.. (although, maybe too old to worry about it when this "new fad" forces change.)

[Cyclist]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

I agree. But When was the last time a nuclear plant was built in the US? And why? Because chicken little sold fear to the public. I know! There’s Fukushima and Chernobyl..... both gross engineering malpractice. There are plenty of nukes that are properly built and run. They produce plenty of clean energy.
.

As I recall, the Fukushima reactor worked as planned and shut down when the quake struck. It was the poor decision to place the back-up diesel generators too close to the shoreline that did them in.

Below is a good article on the environmental impact of lithium mining for batteries. There is no free lunch. I personally like the idea of the plug in hybrid which uses a much smaller battery, can be realistically recharged overnight on a standard 15 amp circuit, has a range suitable for most commuting and does away with range anxiety.



https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lith...Uut08BcWdRH5N8

[Rocinante]

This thread has run its course, and it is now closed.