GM, Ford, and RAM Premium Trims tested

[wbrisett]

Originally Posted by Northsite

Swell! I'm waiting on a 2500 Duramax 10 speed Silverado 2500HD with all the neat stuff and cameras. It was supposed to be delivered in Jan, then the end of Jan and now "sometime in Feb.

Don't take my saga as all of them have these issues. In fact, as you might expect, I have taken quite a few trips to the dealership of the course of the past couple of months and my lone 2020 2500HD sits in the repair lot among others waiting for parts. I've posted my saga on the GM truck forum and nobody has had issues like this. In most other states, GM would have had to buy this thing back, but our lemon laws are not like other states and aren't very consumer friendly (surprise, surprise, surprise).

My dealership has been outstanding and they have bent over backwards trying to resolve things. Corporate, not so much so. At this point, I'm past the point of frustration with them. Thing is, my neighbor worked for 15 years as the fleet sales manager of the largest Ford dealership. He and I were talking about this and he told me some stories that paled in comparison to mine, after which we both agreed that there's not a brand without its issues. And as an aside, Ford corporate apparently is just as bad to deal with. They all have their protocols that dealerships have to follow and that can make it look like the dealership is the one causing the issues. However, that's not always the case.

One thing I will say, is while I'm not brand loyal in the auto/truck side, it amazes me how many folks are. After driving all three of the ¾ ton trucks, I don't think you will find a bad one on the market and any of them you will enjoy. Some, have features that are way ahead of the competition, others have interiors, and yet others have towing and weight advantages and you really have to look at what's important to you.

[wbrisett]

Originally Posted by Drewkonopka5

I think the I phones are just better and easier to use.

... until they're not.

We're not usually in this situation, but when I did a lot of solo motorcycle trips on my BMW GS Adventure, there were many times that I wasn't anywhere close to cell phone range. No cell phone coverage, no maps. It's one of the reasons even today, I carry the Delorme state map book(s) for where I'm going in the truck with me. You can always find a route with those.

The newer navigation systems are now providing traffic data (at a price), here's the thing, though. The Waze, Google Maps, and Apple Maps(?) have an advantage. Unlike in other areas of the world that I've been, we have no central traffic reporting, this means our official traffic is spotty at best. These apps use real-time data you're providing them (probably without your real consent ... it's in the fine print, but few read that). This is why they provide really good traffic analysis and Garmin and others fail.

[ghaynes755]

See the YouTube channel of Steve Lehto, Lehto's Law. Recently rather than using Lemon Laws folks are suing under Universal Commercial Code laws. His example in one of the videos was someone using the UCC code to get all of their money back on a motorhome. (

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iub0v_wjGlg

) It's nice that they gave you a 1500 to drive but can you tow your AS with it? If they loaned you a 2500HD then you would be have a like vehicle.

About the only dissatisfaction I have with my RAM, after 40 years of all GMC, is that their help button for talking to someone in support is a waste of air. Unlike GM who can immediately, remotely run a diagnosis on your truck and then if they don't have an answer can get someone from engineering or next level support on the line. RAM simply tells you to take it to a dealer. I called to find out what brand/model of fuses are being used. Dealer/Napa etc had never seen that type of micro box fuse. Similar but different. The answer was take it to a dealer. USELESS....

Other than that I really like my 2019 Laramie Longhorn Megacab. Interior is way ahead of the other two and I like the tech of the big screen.

RAM is also behind on GPS map updates. But on some GM models today a map on the dash is an option. The reason, WAZE and cell phones.

[wbrisett]

Originally Posted by ghaynes755

It's nice that they gave you a 1500 to drive but can you tow your AS with it? If they loaned you a 2500HD then you would be have a like vehicle. <snip>

Other than that I really like my 2019 Laramie Longhorn Megacab. Interior is way ahead of the other two and I like the tech of the big screen.

RAM is also behind on GPS map updates. But on some GM models today a map on the dash is an option. The reason, WAZE and cell phones.

One of the folks I went to high school with in town is a salesman at one of the RAM dealerships. We tested the Limited trim, although I'm leaning towards the Laramine Longhorn trim with the right color combo if we do get rid of it. I watched some of that video (couldn't make it all the way to the end). Very interesting... I wonder what Texas law would have to say on that. The Lemon law certainly isn't helpful here!

I can and did tow with the 1500, once you load up the 27FT Airstream you sit at about 8500 lbs. These trucks will tow 9100 lbs. And with just my wife and I in the cab, we're nowhere near the GVWR. However, from a fuel economy standpoint we only got 8.2 MPG going to Amarillo over Thanksgiving, whereas with our older 2500 we would have gotten 11-12, which while in the scheme of things isn't huge, with the larger tank we only had to stop once. The loaner 1500 had us stopping 3 times. Plus we had an LTZ, and this time moved to the High Country with nearly all the options. The Loaner is a basic LT. So not much in the way of extras.

The new GM heads-up display is awesome and regardless of brand, we'll miss that if we switch. Right now we're leaning towards letting them fix it. Doing some shorter trips to ensure it is working properly. If we have any other issues, it's gone and we see a RAM in our future (the Ford is tempting, but trying to get them to deal a bit more on pricing is quite difficult for some reason).

[wbrisett]

Update:
So yesterday talked with my buddy at the RAM dealership, we went and tested the Laramine Longhorn again. In the tan, the interior is drop dead gorgeous. The only thing we hated, that we hadn't noticed before was the lack of underseat storage in the back. They use the passenger side split for a huge subwoofer and so you end up only having two spots for storage on the drivers side. A cubby under the floor (smallish) and a small storage area under the seat. Then we checked out the 'mega cab'. Storage there works differently and we found the perfect color combination in the mega cab 50 miles away at a dealership. So, off we went to lunch to discuss if we wanted them to get that vehicle for us.

Just before making our final decision we stopped off at the dealership and talked to the service manager who we have been dealing with for years. GM had called me on Monday and told me they had one of the three parts needed and so now only needed to get them the other two. However, I had no update since Monday and with two trips planned (one out of state, which I can't take the loaner), we are getting a bit worried and honestly, I just want to put this phase of our lives past us. Anyhow, he had just talked to GM on Friday and they have found the hub and he should have it in his hands in just over a week.

So, I called my buddy and explained that we were going to give it that one last shot and if anything else goes wrong, then we see a RAM in our future.

One thing my wife and I both agreed upon, and why we really wanted to give it one last try, is the GM technology package. It has some features that help improve safety (like when towing, when you put on your turn signal, the camera that shoots down the side of the vehicle turns on and shows you if there are any vehicles in your trailer blindspot... I actually wish they would turn those on all the time when you put on your turn signal. I like the sensors that light up on the mirror, but that double check wouldn't be bad). We also would miss the heads-up-display on the dash. Sounds a bit overkill, but in the limited amount of time we had it, we really found it very useful. As I've said earlier in this thread, I expect to see HUDs on all high-end trucks within the next couple of years. GM is just a bit ahead of the game here.

We recognized that it would be those small things that would drive us crazy. All three of the manufacturers have produced products that work, and work extremely well, for hauling our Airstreams around. I don't think any decision anybody decides to make is a 'mistake'... I really do feel it comes down to those small things. Not the engine, not the transmission (but let's face it, it doesn't hurt to have a Cummings engine or Alison transmission in equation when deciding on a vehicle).

So, with the promise that we'll see our truck within the next two weeks. We've decided to hold off (for now) on getting a different truck. Although I will say that I really enjoyed testing all the new trucks and found that testing all of them was better than some professional/youtuber giving me their opinion of the vehicle, because the little things that bother me weren't even covered.

[OTRA15]

Great update, thanks!

Peter

[asta2]

So we got a diesel 2020 AT4 in Oct and have put about 5k on it so far, but are still waiting on our trailer. Having said that, we've had no problems and the technology (cameras, lane departure, etc) is really nice and I think make it a safer vehicle. Also I just got the GMC TPMS sensors for the trailer and I really like the idea of not needing a second system to monitor the trailer. We took a road trip to visit our trailer last weekend and I can say the comfort and mileage is a large step up from our '06 Silverado. I won't know more until we get the trailer and hit the road - MTF.

[wbrisett]

Asta2: I really like the looks of the AT4. Like I said earlier in this thread, each vendor has its strengths. GM has the 'gizmos' and tech for sure. I also have the TPMS system and I'm considering (if my truck should ever stay in my driveway and on the road... for those playing along ... 108 days of ownership, 72 days in the shop), I'm wanting to add the additional hardwired camera to the Airstream. If I end up with another truck, it will probably be a RAM. I liked the Ford, but I saw GM and Ford pretty equal all things considered and nothing jumped out at me as the one thing that was better than the competitors (and for those of you who think, but reliability... it ain't so ... I can't tell you how many people have said this to me, yet my neighbor who worked for 15 years at the local dealership said my current experience with GM wasn't as bad as some stories he could tell me and the Ford forums will also bare this out ... bottom line, there isn't a brand that's really any better than the other, they all have issues).

But Asta2, you're going to really enjoy towing with it.

[Kanusport]

I don’t think any manufacturer is immune to this problem of no parts but I do feel the strike that Chevy had is affecting parts availability.
My 2019 Duramax hd3500 was in the shop for three weeks waiting on parts after I lost injector #3 at 8000 miles. To say it was frustrating would be an understatement as it’s my work truck.

One thing to keep in mind in your analyses is the Chevy or gm does have an Allison trans which is superior to the others.

I though about taking a bath on it and selling it but in the end it was fixed and I’m happy.

Best of luck

[wbrisett]

Originally Posted by Kanusport

I don’t think any manufacturer is immune to this problem of no parts but I do feel the strike that Chevy had is affecting parts availability.
My 2019 Duramax hd3500 was in the shop for three weeks waiting on parts after I lost injector #3 at 8000 miles. To say it was frustrating would be an understatement as it’s my work truck.

We have a trip planned for this coming weekend. Right now I still don't have my truck. The part they need was supposed to arrive last week, but as of Thursday it hadn't and I heard nothing on Friday. Ironically the local GMC dealership called me (because we had looked at the AT4) and has been trying to see if I would give them a shot. Yesterday evening he sent me some numbers on a fully equipped SLT that has everything the High Country that is in the shop has. The numbers weren't bad, told him I would let him know on Monday. What I'm really hoping is that on Monday my dealer will tell me the part came in and we won't have to cancel the trip this coming weekend.

I like the new 10 speed transmission on both the GM and Ford, but for features (the 15 cameras, or heads-up display for example) GM still is ahead of the competition. But this delay is getting out of hand... I've owned it 113 days, and 79 days has been spent in the shop. The current shop time is 34 consecutive days.

[HRTKD]

Originally Posted by wbrisett

We have a trip planned for this coming weekend. Right now I still don't have my truck. The part they need was supposed to arrive last week, but as of Thursday it hadn't and I heard nothing on Friday. Ironically the local GMC dealership called me (because we had looked at the AT4) and has been trying to see if I would give them a shot. Yesterday evening he sent me some numbers on a fully equipped SLT that has everything the High Country that is in the shop has. The numbers weren't bad, told him I would let him know on Monday. What I'm really hoping is that on Monday my dealer will tell me the part came in and we won't have to cancel the trip this coming weekend.

I like the new 10 speed transmission on both the GM and Ford, but for features (the 15 cameras, or heads-up display for example) GM still is ahead of the competition. But this delay is getting out of hand... I've owned it 113 days, and 79 days has been spent in the shop. The current shop time is 34 consecutive days.

As much as I hate giving up, your truck situation sounds like an ideal candidate for the lemon law.

[wbrisett]

Originally Posted by HRTKD

As much as I hate giving up, your truck situation sounds like an ideal candidate for the lemon law.

Not under the Texas Lemon Law! I've already talked to an attorney about the whole thing. Now there is one firm out of Dallas that has had better luck using the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (what one person earlier in the thread posted about). It's a long drawn out process but they claim in about 97% of the cases they can get it settled out of court.

We decided this weekend to close the chapter on the truck. The GMCm the one dealer was quoting me, was at another one of their stores just outside of Austin. That particular dealership is closed on Saturdays and open on Sundays. After church we decided to look at the GMC and make sure it was what we really wanted and we could live with the color (it's brown). While there they made us a slightly better deal than the Austin dealership and we really liked working with them. Since they were both a Chevy and GMC dealership they had no issues taking the truck (sight unseen) and since it's farm country they won't have any issues selling it once repaired. We will work out the logistics today on the truck, either they will send a driver to pick it up, or worst case, I'll sign it out and then they will take it to their shop. But it's done.

We took about a $9500 hit all told (actually once we get our money back from the extended service we're down to around $7K.), but that's a peace of mind that we now have back and our 113 days of ownership with 79 of those days out of service are past us. We close that chapter and move forward.

[HRTKD]

wbrisett, good luck with the new truck. I can't say that I blame you one bit for jumping to a new one.

Guys that use these trucks for business must go out of their minds when their trucks are in for work that takes more than a day.

[Northsite]

Several years ago I had a friend with a Chevy 2500 Duramax that had unexplained drop dead engine issues. It happened to him traveling across the country on a 7500 mile trip, resulting in him stopping at 8 (?) dealerships. When getting home to NJ, he filed a lemon law complaint. GM sent a genius teck to his dealer and it was fixed...a series of bad sensors. GM gave him "services for life" on his truck. It never went to court.

[wbrisett]

A rep from GM called me last night. Really not much to say other than now that I had moved on, they were closing my case. I basically wrote a letter to GM and told them in essence that they needed to better empower their reps to do something. I mean, sure it was nice getting a call from GM, but when they couldn't give me any updates what good was that?

Anyhow, I mailed the letter yesterday and I'll have to wait and see if GM comes back with any response to it.

When we stopped by the dealership to get everything out of the truck, the service manager who we absolutely hold in very high regard, said he understood and wishes stated privately to me that GM should have in our case pulled a part from the assembly line. I can't agree more with him. No, it's not something they do normally, but I feel our case was pretty extreme.

Anyhow, we had baked cookies sent to the service tech, service writer, and service manager. They all were outstanding, and everything that happened was very much out of their control. We understood that and we really appreciated what they did do.

[Camr]

Prior to your experience with GM, I held them in higher regard as to the handling of customer satisfaction issues. I have had a horrible experience with Ford that caused me to trade my F250 in slightly over a year of owning, or rather, suffering with it. From my experience with Ford warranty service, if Ford were the last manufacturer on earth, I’ll be riding a goat. It seems that the big 3 are all playing the same game plan with vehicles that have an impossible time making it to the end of warranty without causing owners to pull their hair out. A colleague who previously had a fleet of F150’s has switched the fleet, over time, to all Tundras. This speaks volumes.

[wbrisett]

Camr, the irony in all of this is it wouldn't have taken much to make this whole situation better. The way I see it, GM simply doesn't empower the reps to do a whole lot. Looking after a case seems to entail calling the dealership for updates, then calling you and trying to couch any bad news.

In the biggest WOW moment of this whole saga, I had to stop by the GMC dealership yesterday. They had the 2020 Chevrolet 2500 HD High Country brought to their location just one day prior (they are both a GMC and Chevy dealership) ... they brought it to their dealership on Tuesday and it was now Wednesday. When I saw my salesperson, he told me that they had just sold my old truck earlier in the day! Granted it still had to go through service, but it was a done deal. How crazy is that? I'm not sure if they were going to pull the one part we've been waiting for off one of their other trucks or what, but that absolutely floored me. Apparently somebody walked in and wanted the exact model and color.

As far as Tundras go. They are great trucks, part of what makes them good is they don't change much. If you compare any of the US 1500/150 models gas mileage to the Tundras you'll notice a huge difference. The guys at TFL Trucks on YouTube attribute their reliability to the fact that Toyota takes a very long time to change anything. Kind of the it ain't broke, so don't fix it model. Right now with fuel prices being what they are 14-15 MPG isn't going to sting, but if we head back to the 3-4 dollar mark, the difference between 14-15 and 19-22 is huge. I've also not really seen where Toyota's interior stands out. Much like GMs, it works, but it really could use some updating. Actually, what I discovered in all of my testing was everybody has a long way to go to catch up to RAM on the interior.

[lsbrodsky]

Seems like if your GMC dealer could do that to sell the truck, your Chevy dealer could have done the same to fix it. Perhaps your good feelings about service at the Chevy dealer were not entirely justified. I mentioned an issue I had a couple of years ago where my dealer did not go to much trouble to find a part, just ordered it and told me I had to wait. When I found the part with a couple of phone calls, my opinion of the service dept changed for the worse. That service manager is now gone, but the good technicians are still there, thankfully. I guess in the end, it is all about profit motivation.
Larry