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Old 07-23-2021, 06:28 PM   #121
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Too bad Nissan discontinued their XD diesel. To me the 5 liter would be the perfect match for a travel trailer. But now with the EV push that is a pipe dream to think dealers will move in that direction. Nissan discontinued it because there aren’t that many buyers for Titans period. But someone should take up the slack.
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Old 07-23-2021, 10:24 PM   #122
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So jcl what I got out of that was that the new GM & Ram dieselís should be good according to your info until they actually go to a zero emissions requirement which I believe is many years away.
I donít think any of the Euro manufacturers can sail through the Euro 7 emissions requirements, which will likely come into force in 2025. First question is whether they can do it technically, and the second is whether there is a business case and cash flow available for them to try. Especially for smaller manufacturers like VM Motori.
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Old 07-24-2021, 07:32 AM   #123
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Nissans 5.0 diesel despite Mfgr & aftermarket tuners efforts could never muster any fuel economy over the 6.7. It’s a big heavy 5/8 ton truck the size & fuel economy of the 3/4 ton trucks. Many thought fugly looks also. It being Nissan’s I believe only diesel also created problems. You need trained diesel techs to do diagnostics justice when there is issues. It’s not a bad motor just no particular benefit over the 6.7. Some tuners even cranked them up for big power. After Nissan dropped it Cummins killed it.

The 3.0s get 30 hwy in a 1/2 ton truck with enough power to tow to the reasonable limits of the 1/2 ton platform. Bigger diesels are not needed in the 1/2 ton platform. In fact much bigger would only negate the fuel economy gap between the 1/2 ton & 3/4 ton diesels. There has to be enough spread between economy & capacity of 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton. Yes there is still ride comfort & price gap but that gap seems to have gotten smaller as well. Partly because there are both lots of loaded 1/2 ton and lots of basic 3/4 tons to see similar prices.

Nissan was trying to have the gap truck which did fit the RV market well but left no gap fuel economy wise over 3/4 ton diesels. So why not skip the Nissan and get more capacity from a 3/4 ton. Which I believe is what people did. They either bought the 1/2 ton 3.0 for economy or the 3/4 ton diesels for more capacity with the same economy.

Jcl Got it but GM & Ram’s new 3.0s should be good in the US emissions wise for many years. No new product has to be developed certified etc. If Europe kills small diesels I get that new may not be invested in and developed just for the states but providing sufficient sales we should have the two new small 3.0s for many years.
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Old 07-24-2021, 07:46 AM   #124
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Nissans 5.0 diesel despite Mfgr & aftermarket tuners efforts could never muster any fuel economy over the 6.7. It’s a big heavy 5/8 ton truck the size & fuel economy of the 3/4 ton trucks. Many thought fugly looks also. It being Nissan’s I believe only diesel also created problems. You need trained diesel techs to do diagnostics justice when there is issues. It’s not a bad motor just no particular benefit over the 6.7. Some tuners even cranked them up for big power. After Nissan dropped it Cummins killed it.

The 3.0s get 30 hwy in a 1/2 ton truck with enough power to tow to the reasonable limits of the 1/2 ton platform. Bigger diesels are not needed in the 1/2 ton platform. In fact much bigger would only negate the fuel economy gap between the 1/2 ton & 3/4 ton diesels. There has to be enough spread between economy & capacity of 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton. Yes there is still ride comfort & price gap but that gap seems to have gotten smaller as well. Partly because there are both lots of loaded 1/2 ton and lots of basic 3/4 tons to see similar prices.

Nissan was trying to have the gap truck which did fit the RV market well but left no gap fuel economy wise over 3/4 ton diesels. So why not skip the Nissan and get more capacity from a 3/4 ton. Which I believe is what people did. They either bought the 1/2 ton 3.0 for economy or the 3/4 ton diesels for more capacity with the same economy.

Jcl Got it but GM & Ram’s new 3.0s should be good in the US emissions wise for many years. No new product has to be developed certified etc. If Europe kills small diesels I get that new may not be invested in and developed just for the states but providing sufficient sales we should have the two new small 3.0s for many years.
I understand the reasoning for dumping the 5.0 diesel. But they really didn't spend much time trying to enhance its capabilities either. The reason is because Nissan just didn't sell pickups. And as I said, the cost of a 6.7 3/4 ton is high and not needed for the vast majority of RV trailer owners (unless you are pulling a 5th wheel). And as I stated earlier, many of us do not like the size and handling of the 3/4 ton.

I really think that 3.0 diesel pickups simply are short on horsepower and payload. Thus the reason I went with the 3.5 Ecoboost. It will be interesting to see what the 2022 new Toyota comes out with. They are coming out with a turbo charged engine for their Tundra.
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Old 07-24-2021, 08:01 AM   #125
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When I read the struggle members with 1500 pickups go through to try to keep their loads within factory limits, I think many should step up to a 2500 - gas or diesel. I suspect many are overloaded without the driver being the wiser or even caring much one way or the other. Life is easier when you have the right tool for the job.
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Old 07-24-2021, 08:14 AM   #126
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When I read the struggle members with 1500 pickups go through to try to keep their loads within factory limits, I think many should step up to a 2500 - gas or diesel. I suspect many are overloaded without the driver being the wiser or even caring much one way or the other. Life is easier when you have the right tool for the job.
Yes, but I don't need a sledge hammer to pound a nail in; to use the right tool analogy. I don't need 1000lbs of torque to pull a 28' Airstream. And 3/4 ton gas engines get terrible mileage for every day driving. I have test driven them. Would not want to use them for everyday driving. Thus why I don't have a 3/4 ton. I just stay within my limits. And my 3.5 Ecoboost does just fine. Have not had a problem with it. And they constantly improve the capabilities. Thus there is no reason why someone couldn't develop a 5 liter diesel that would give the durability of a diesel and torque capability of a diesel without going to the extreme of 1000lbs of torque which is just not necessary for pulling an RV trailer. I just think the 3.0 diesel is not going to last long. And when I talk to RAM dealers they don't sell many.
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Old 07-25-2021, 12:55 AM   #127
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Yep tool for the personís priorities. Especially to go fast or short commutes go gas. To tow a single axle camper you certainly donít need a 3/4 ton diesel. Develop another 5.0 diesel? The first one didnít make 1000 pounds. You lost me. Donít see a new one happening or any kind of business case for it.

Well the 3.0 diesel 1/2 tons have made it 9 years and both GM & Ram have new 3.0 diesel engines. They donít have to be your choice only somebodyís choice. Iíve chose them that doesnít mean I want to see anotherís guy choice removed. Regulations may kill them but their is a nitch in the marketplace for them.
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Old 07-26-2021, 07:15 AM   #128
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Yes, but I don't need a sledge hammer to pound a nail in; to use the right tool analogy. I don't need 1000lbs of torque to pull a 28' Airstream. And 3/4 ton gas engines get terrible mileage for every day driving. I have test driven them. Would not want to use them for everyday driving. Thus why I don't have a 3/4 ton. I just stay within my limits. And my 3.5 Ecoboost does just fine. Have not had a problem with it. And they constantly improve the capabilities. Thus there is no reason why someone couldn't develop a 5 liter diesel that would give the durability of a diesel and torque capability of a diesel without going to the extreme of 1000lbs of torque which is just not necessary for pulling an RV trailer. I just think the 3.0 diesel is not going to last long. And when I talk to RAM dealers they don't sell many.
Actually, itís 1050 ft lbs. I would never buy a pickup with a smaller engine after owning this one.
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Old 07-27-2021, 12:12 PM   #129
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Yes, but I don't need a sledge hammer to pound a nail in; to use the right tool analogy. I don't need 1000lbs of torque to pull a 28' Airstream. And 3/4 ton gas engines get terrible mileage for every day driving. I have test driven them. Would not want to use them for everyday driving. Thus why I don't have a 3/4 ton. I just stay within my limits. And my 3.5 Ecoboost does just fine. Have not had a problem with it. And they constantly improve the capabilities. Thus there is no reason why someone couldn't develop a 5 liter diesel that would give the durability of a diesel and torque capability of a diesel without going to the extreme of 1000lbs of torque which is just not necessary for pulling an RV trailer. I just think the 3.0 diesel is not going to last long. And when I talk to RAM dealers they don't sell many.
To each his own...The Echoboost issue was/is not the issue with towing an AS; it's the payload, brakes, overall wheelbase/control you get with the 3/4T or 1T TV when towning above a 25'. (28' especially; big difference with our F250 6.7L vs our older F150 Platinum with 1039#payload towing the 25's; no comparison in power, control, and piece of mind while towing the larger AS's with the larger diesel TV's; if you don't believe anyone who says this, rent one of the 3/4T or 1T diesels and tow your 28'! Just saying, night and day difference when towing up/down/around at 60-65...you will become a "believer" with the larger TV and the diesel! you too will likely become one of the "been there, done that" believers...
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Old 07-29-2021, 07:09 PM   #130
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To each his own...The Echoboost issue was/is not the issue with towing an AS; it's the payload, brakes, overall wheelbase/control you get with the 3/4T or 1T TV when towning above a 25'. (28' especially; big difference with our F250 6.7L vs our older F150 Platinum with 1039#payload towing the 25's; no comparison in power, control, and piece of mind while towing the larger AS's with the larger diesel TV's; if you don't believe anyone who says this, rent one of the 3/4T or 1T diesels and tow your 28'! Just saying, night and day difference when towing up/down/around at 60-65...you will become a "believer" with the larger TV and the diesel! you too will likely become one of the "been there, done that" believers...
Let's be clear.

You took what amounted to a glorified passenger vehicle masquerading as a capable truck, to tow a 28' Airstream?! A truck with less than mini-van capable specs at 1039 lbs payload.

Your anecdotes are just that. Poor and misguided examples of what a properly setup 1/2 truck is really capable of. It's a theme that repeats itself over and over with so many HD truck owners. They compare their HD truck experience, one that is no doubt configured and setup to tow, versus their prior truck that had passenger car grade options and credentials. Then assume it to be everyone's experience.
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Old 07-30-2021, 08:51 AM   #131
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Let's be clear.

You took what amounted to a glorified passenger vehicle masquerading as a capable truck, to tow a 28' Airstream?! A truck with less than mini-van capable specs at 1039 lbs payload.

Your anecdotes are just that. Poor and misguided examples of what a properly setup 1/2 truck is really capable of. It's a theme that repeats itself over and over with so many HD truck owners. They compare their HD truck experience, one that is no doubt configured and setup to tow, versus their prior truck that had passenger car grade options and credentials. Then assume it to be everyone's experience.
Hey, how many 1/2T's and 3/4Ts have you owned there, Ptek? How many trailers have you towed with each of those? Seems to me you told us a while back that you have the Lexus because you need to carry more passengers...not the issue here. I tried the SUV rout with a couple of 25' AS's and a Casita, before switching to the F150; night and day difference towing the 25'. But, the 3/4T diesel is night and day different, and much larger payload...limited on only 5 passengers, but I don't need that extra people space. If you have not owned/driven a 3/4T towing the larger AS's, with the larger brakes, more stability, power, engine brake, and of course payload to compare your comments, then I would say do yourself a favor and rent one so you can talk from experience.
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Old 07-30-2021, 10:00 PM   #132
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Hey, how many 1/2T's and 3/4Ts have you owned there, Ptek? How many trailers have you towed with each of those? Seems to me you told us a while back that you have the Lexus because you need to carry more passengers...not the issue here. I tried the SUV rout with a couple of 25' AS's and a Casita, before switching to the F150; night and day difference towing the 25'. But, the 3/4T diesel is night and day different, and much larger payload...limited on only 5 passengers, but I don't need that extra people space. If you have not owned/driven a 3/4T towing the larger AS's, with the larger brakes, more stability, power, engine brake, and of course payload to compare your comments, then I would say do yourself a favor and rent one so you can talk from experience.
Whether I've tried an HD truck is besides the point. I absolutely believe yours tows great - it should as every HD truck is designed and configured for real work.

Our experiences towing a larger Airstream with a 1/2 ton vehicle is worlds apart however. That's not a surprise as you tried it with a compromised configuration right from the get go using an example with 1039lb payload. What is a surprise is that you might think that experience is representative of everyone's 1/2 ton.

I've never had a problem with stability, braking, or power. No fear, uncertainty, or doubt about white knuckles ever, whether passing rigs, grades over 7%, on the tightest of mountain roads. On the contrary, my properly setup 1/2 ton tows my 27FB with aplomb. And I have other requirements and pursuits not possible with an HD truck.

As we're in the F150 diesel thread, your HD diesel truck experience would also not be representative of an F150s diesel. Worlds apart in performance.
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Old 07-31-2021, 09:27 AM   #133
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Whether I've tried an HD truck is besides the point. I absolutely believe yours tows great - it should as every HD truck is designed and configured for real work.

Our experiences towing a larger Airstream with a 1/2 ton vehicle is worlds apart however. That's not a surprise as you tried it with a compromised configuration right from the get go using an example with 1039lb payload. What is a surprise is that you might think that experience is representative of everyone's 1/2 ton.

I've never had a problem with stability, braking, or power. No fear, uncertainty, or doubt about white knuckles ever, whether passing rigs, grades over 7%, on the tightest of mountain roads. On the contrary, my properly setup 1/2 ton tows my 27FB with aplomb. And I have other requirements and pursuits not possible with an HD truck.

As we're in the F150 diesel thread, your HD diesel truck experience would also not be representative of an F150s diesel. Worlds apart in performance.
What ever floats your boat...all "speculation" unless you have experienced it yourself, right? I spent a lot of time looking at 1/2T's, including the Nissan diesel few years back...RAM and Toyota were all light in the Payload area...I mean less then 1400lbs typically...if your towing a 25 or larger AS, that is a problem for most of us. Ford upper level models and GM's have gotten a lot better in the payload area last few years for sure, but the 1/2T Ford diesel is now discontinued, so not an option there.

Many of us who have moved to the 3/4-1T diesels share the same experience when towing 25-33' AS's...better control, braking, payload, vs the 1/2T's doing same duty. If you travel a lot towing a larger AS, as many of us do, in the mountains towing especially, you will come to appreciate the benefits I mention earlier...if you have never had the experience, your comments are speculation at best...that was/is my point.
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Old 08-02-2021, 02:12 AM   #134
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Very well said pteck. Gypsydad is just going to continue with his narrative regardless of the thread peopleís needs or their priorities.
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