Gas verses Diesel Tow Vehicle

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

Not exactly EV, but you could start here.

Ok, eliminate all of the ones that every other industry and business gets, and then let's discuss the ones left...

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Florida 55

I have a 2011 F250 diesel. The factory fuel tank is only 26 gallons. At 13 mpg towing, the range is roughly 340 miles. We had one instance driving, from San Antonio to Fort Stockton, where we encountered high headwinds and no stations with diesel along the interstate. We arrived in Fort Stockton and put 24.5 gallons in the tank. I now carry two 2 gallon Rotopax with diesel in the bed of the truck when we are traveling in remote areas. If the truck were new I’d definitely go to the expense of exchanging the OEM tank for the 50 gallon Titan replacement tank. Ford finally increased its F250 standards diesel tank to 34 gallons in 2017.

I’ve never had trouble finding fuel on the backroads, though I’m very careful about refueling when the fuel gauge approaches 1/2 empty. I’ve been on a number of back roads in the West and Great Plains where I’ve gone 50 - 75 miles between stations with diesel.

I have a 27 foot Airstream. Many farmers, loggers, construction workers, and oilfield workers in rural areas tow long work trailers so stations must accommodate them. I rarely encounter a station in rural areas where I can’t maneuver to the diesel pump with the Airstream in tow. Sometimes I do have to wait in line when a station is busy and has only one diesel pump.

My biggest fear with the diesel is getting bad fuel. I try to refuel at stations that pump a lot of gallons. I do carry extra fuel filters with me.

In both Comfort and Junction are major retailers. Truckers Path is an app that is easy to use for this. There are others besides, the BarB in Sonora an example.

For planning, use 80% as maximum. 21-gallons. At 12-mpg that’s 250-miles.


Leave SA and top off at Junction would be easy. Takes over 1.5-hrs to finish warmup, down to tire pressure. That’s an excellent point to refuel.

200-miles is preferable as a maximum for safety reasons: get out, stretch and walk around.

150-170/miles was about what we’d see in the bygone era of big block gasoline engines where fuel tank capacity was 23-27 gals.

Make the fuel stop coincide with the midday break. Four hours or so of drive time. A one hour stop.

Segovia is my favorite truckstop on that route. Especially if rush hour is ahead in SA.

Consider 34 as an alternative to IH10. Speed isn’t everything. And east of SA, the Interstate is full of fools. 34 is a nice change from the metro area.

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by Florida 55

My biggest fear with the diesel is getting bad fuel. I try to refuel at stations that pump a lot of gallons. I do carry extra fuel filters with me.

Chucks right, Carrying extra filters, very good choice.

And a common dirty filter symptom, reduced power.

And for those that can’t change their own filter, carry your own spare so someone can change it and you’re installing a known filter brand.

Highly recommended.

Gary

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Yeah, a range increase from 20 miles to over 200 is not much of an increase.

Somebody please present some data on subsidies. And I mean real data, not regurgitated internet garbage.

That range increase took 100+years and costs an arm and a leg.
And you still cant pull into a charging station and be on your way in minutes.
Good luck with finding a reliable charging station every 200 miles on a cross country trip.

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Chucks right, Carrying extra filters, very good choice.

And a common dirty filter symptom, reduced power.

And for those that can’t change their own filter, carry your own spare so someone can change it and you’re installing a known filter brand.

Highly recommended.

Gary

See, this is one of many reasons why I’m in no hurry to switch to diesel. Seriously, why risk this kind of baloney while traveling?

[NCMEDIC]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

See, this is one of many reasons why I’m in no hurry to switch to diesel. Seriously, why risk this kind of baloney while traveling?

Because of the aforementioned advantages of descending steep mountain roads with engine braking and the power and torque that are developed at lower RPM ranges than gas engines. The engine braking alone is reason to switch.

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by NCMEDIC

Because of the aforementioned advantages of descending steep mountain roads with engine braking and the power and torque that are developed at lower RPM ranges than gas engines. The engine braking alone is reason to switch.

"Diesel engines do not have engine braking ... . Unlike gasoline engines, diesel engines vary fuel flow to control power, rather than throttling air intake and maintaining a constant fuel ratio as gasoline engines do. Since they do not maintain a throttle vacuum, they are not subjected to the same engine braking effects. This is partly why non-turbo diesel-engined vehicles can coast in-gear for longer than an equivalent gasoline engine. However, many turbo diesels have turbo exhaust brakes and other trucks have compression release brakes (Jake Brake).

[KCCO]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

See, this is one of many reasons why I’m in no hurry to switch to diesel. Seriously, why risk this kind of baloney while traveling?

We tow our 30 with a diesel, and love every second of it. But.......

I would be lying if I said I never worried about fuel related problems while traveling. So the question I have for the rest of you is this - how many of you have experience fuel related issues and have had to replace filters while on the side of the road?

[TexAirS]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

Just over 6 months ago I bought an F250 gasser. 19,000 miles later i am thrilled with the choice. Towing a 30'.

I do get about 9 mpg towing. Maybe 11 if it's flat and with the wind. Even with better diesel mpg, on avg cost of gas is significantly lower. So that's not a huge factor in my book.

I'm new to diesel and keep reading how expensive diesels are. Got a '16 Duramax and think operating a diesel is less expensive per mile. In central TX, regular is $2.19 and diesel is 2.59. That's 18% higher. And with 11 mpg(you) vs 15.6 mpg(me) towing, that's 42% better mileage. So, around 60k, my fuel costs are $4500 less?

What am I missing?

John

[Troutboy]

For those diesel advocates and experts, at what size trailer do you really think the benefits of diesel take over?

I have a 2028 F150 and tow a 23D. Max weight is 6000 pounds. My old JGC stowed in Rocky Mountains just fine. I was maxed on payload.

The F150 kicks but and works well as a daily commuter getting 22 mpg.

I don’t see a diesel in my future unless I go to a much heavier rig. What are your thoughts here?

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by NCMEDIC

Because of the aforementioned advantages of descending steep mountain roads with engine braking and the power and torque that are developed at lower RPM ranges than gas engines. The engine braking alone is reason to switch.

No it isn't. I have plenty of "engine braking" with my gasoline engine and have had no trouble towing our 28' Airstream up and down over the Rockies and any other mountain range we've encountered. I appreciate and respect that you enjoy driving your diesel-powered rig. That's awesome, especially given what it costs to get into one. However, don't try to tell me the rig I'm happy with is somehow insufficient to the need when I already know for a fact that it does the job admirably, under every condition we've thrown at it for over four years.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

For those diesel advocates and experts, at what size trailer do you really think the benefits of diesel take over?

I have a 2028 F150 and tow a 23D. Max weight is 6000 pounds. My old JGC stowed in Rocky Mountains just fine. I was maxed on payload.

The F150 kicks but and works well as a daily commuter getting 22 mpg.

I don’t see a diesel in my future unless I go to a much heavier rig. What are your thoughts here?

Not really the right question. Not every diesel motor is made the same. Nor is every gas motor. It comes down to the specific motor in questions independent of diesel vs. gas.

There are many gas motors that will easily do the dead, up to the heaviest AS trailer. Just about any big block 5.0L or larger, or turbo'd 3.0L or larger. There's small diesel motors that I would not choose to tow with. With most of those small diesels having no exhaust brake fitted which means they don't have sufficient engine braking!

Basically, anything above 300-350hp and 300-350tq, independent of fuel type will more than easily do the job. It's all gravy above that. Another point to look for is peak tq rpm. Some gas motors are tuned for more pulling power down below, while others need to spin.

The advantage of most modern big block gassers is they have more than adequate torque at low rpm, yet ALSO have the high rpm hp. The latter of which most diesels simply don't have. Which is why you see the XD Titan Diesel Cummins fail to outperform it's gas brethren.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

Ok, eliminate all of the ones that every other industry and business gets, and then let's discuss the ones left...

The info was previously posted here

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ml#post2078240

It was pointed out there that permanent subsidies to renewable energy were only 1/7 as large as subsidies to the fossil fuel industry.

You responded there the same way, that your point was that all industries get subsidies. So let’s discuss the imbalance, as you suggest.

[2012FB]

I don’t see the Federal EV subsidies ending soon. It would have the effect of crippling the OEM that reaches it first. A penalty if you will for being the pioneer with all the expenses. I suspect it will be extended to apply to all or be repealed completely. I have taken full advantage twice (2013 Volt and 2018 BOLT). Since I live in CO that is $12,500 in State and Federal tax credit. The Bolt is a fun amazing car to drive.

[pteck]

This thread is about gas vs diesel. We should make another thread about EV's. EV's vs the world!

[Troutboy]

Pteck, so in your opinion then, there isn’t really a situation where a diesel is preferred as a TV? There are gas and diesel options for any TT situation? It’s more of a personal preference?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

Pteck, so in your opinion then, there isn’t really a situation where a diesel is preferred as a TV? There are gas and diesel options for any TT situation? It’s more of a personal preference?

I would spend more time thinking about turbocharged vs naturally aspirated, than gas vs diesel. A forced induction engine won’t lose as much power at higher altitudes, and can develop its power at a lower rpm. My twin turbo 3 litre gas engine (not an Ecoboost) hit peak torque at 1300 rpm and held it. Great tow vehicle engine.

So many of the comments on diesel characteristics on this forum are really talking about turbocharged engine characteristics. Many current generation diesel owners have never seen a naturally aspirated Diesel engine.

[DBinSD]

[QUOTE=jcl;2081973

So many of the comments on diesel characteristics on this forum are really talking about turbocharged engine characteristics. Many current generation diesel owners have never seen a naturally aspirated Diesel engine.[/QUOTE]



Could that be most new trucks have a turbo diesel?

The diesel motor of todays trucks develop significantly more torque (best to pull with) than motors of the past.

While I prefer an older nat. Aspirated gas engine, they do not compare (or come close) to current turbo diesel motors w/ fuel economy and torque.

I have owned all f the above several times over and now stick to diesel for heavy pulling. Your definition of heavy may be different.

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

See, this is one of many reasons why I’m in no hurry to switch to diesel. Seriously, why risk this kind of baloney while traveling?

I don't consider being prepared baloney and I'm still carrying my 1st unused road spare fuel filter.

I don't consider the only tool required to R&R a fuel filter on my truck a pair of Channel Locks or even a small pipe wrench and its self purging system baloney.

I value being able to take care of a minor issue and continuing on, that's not baloney.

I also don't consider my personal preference for my 5.9L Cummins as baloney.

All this talk about baloney getting me ready to check the fridge for my favorite, Trail Baloney http://http://www.troyerstrail.com/ now that's some good stuff.

[Rocinante]

It’s fine to be prepared, and even good bologna is fine. Just pointing out that very rarely does any fuel-related issue come to mind when driving a gasser. Given this is allegedly a gas vs diesel thread, it’s a point that must be given to the gassers. [emoji57]