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Old 01-22-2018, 07:56 AM   #101
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Maybe, but if I spend $70k it better have zero miles and be brand new.
Did not say I spent $70K. I said it was a 70K truck. It was a 2013 with 36K on it and I did NOT spend 70K.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:56 AM   #102
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But it is real gas there is no corn oil in it.
But Monsanto wants the corn oil in it.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:07 AM   #103
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Those in the industry know otherwise. Europe is eliminating diesel cars gradually.
Yup that must be why they are building 2018 luxury cars with diesel engines. There must be a logic there somewhere that a simpleton like me simply can't understand.

And whoever noted that diesel fuel is subsidized in Europe needs to read up on it a little more. Diesel fuel is simply less expensive to manufacture and gives you more energy output vs gasoline.
There are no fuel subsidies in Europe just the opposite. A large percentage of the taxes collected is through motor fuel tax. That is why gas is so expensive over there in comparison to the US.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:03 AM   #104
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Yup that must be why they are building 2018 luxury cars with diesel engines. There must be a logic there somewhere that a simpleton like me simply can't understand.

And whoever noted that diesel fuel is subsidized in Europe needs to read up on it a little more. Diesel fuel is simply less expensive to manufacture and gives you more energy output vs gasoline.
There are no fuel subsidies in Europe just the opposite. A large percentage of the taxes collected is through motor fuel tax. That is why gas is so expensive over there in comparison to the US.
You're not working in the auto industry. I'm not interested in arguing the point, sorry.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:12 AM   #105
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And whoever noted that diesel fuel is subsidized in Europe needs to read up on it a little more. Diesel fuel is simply less expensive to manufacture and gives you more energy output vs gasoline.
There are no fuel subsidies in Europe just the opposite. A large percentage of the taxes collected is through motor fuel tax. That is why gas is so expensive over there in comparison to the US.
Wrong on multiple counts. In the EU, Diesel is generally more expensive before taxes, and less expensive after taxes, despite diesel vehicles on average causing more road damage (due to heavy trucks). This is apart from the air quality externalities. Blame the trucking industry lobby (or thank them, depending on your point of view)

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Apart from the United Kingdom, where the same tax per litre applies for diesel and petrol, all other Member States tax diesel less than petrol. Therefore, in June 2015, despite being more expensive than petrol before tax, diesel was cheaper at the pump than petrol in all EU Member States. This has contributed to a shift from petrol to diesel vehicles in recent decades. This taxation strategy is implemented despite evidence to suggest that the external costs of diesel vehicles are, on average, higher than those of petrol vehicles (see TERM025). Although they are more fuel efficient, diesels emit higher levels of the air pollutants nitrogen dioxide and fine particulate matter than petrol vehicles
The above report is from a European Union report on fuel prices and fuel taxes, much better than anecdotes IMO.

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-m...s/assessment-6

Franklyfrank, I realize that you went on vacation there. Some of us lived and worked there, and in my case, I worked in an industry with diesel powered equipment, which was used for building those roads.
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:15 PM   #106
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FWIW, the OP ain't been back since he posed this question on the 18th.
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Old 01-23-2018, 07:13 AM   #107
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Maybe everyone really needs to "agree to disagree" on this subject. Does anybody really care about the TV anyone else has. What is great about this country is we have freedoms of choice (I am sure people will b**tch about that as well). The same goes with RVs, your not better because you have an AS, it is just the choice you made and it works for you. If Europe is so much better, go live there, life is short, enjoy it while you can!!
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Old 01-23-2018, 07:23 AM   #108
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I find the gas vs. diesel debate amusing. They both work. Some pros, some cons, but they both get the job done. Pick one and donít worry about what anybody else picked. Enjoy!
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:10 AM   #109
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Wrong on multiple counts. In the EU, Diesel is generally more expensive before taxes, and less expensive after taxes, despite diesel vehicles on average causing more road damage (due to heavy trucks). This is apart from the air quality externalities. Blame the trucking industry lobby (or thank them, depending on your point of view)



The above report is from a European Union report on fuel prices and fuel taxes, much better than anecdotes IMO.

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-m...s/assessment-6

Franklyfrank, I realize that you went on vacation there. Some of us lived and worked there, and in my case, I worked in an industry with diesel powered equipment, which was used for building those roads.
Friend, I owned my own Infrastructure Construction Company for 40 years. We operate two Kenworth low boys and 24 Mack Semi dumps. Excavators from 175 K lbs to minies, Dozers, Loaders, service trucks pavers the whole shooting match.
To argue most of the comments her I would have to get into politics, which by the way I lived everyday of my working life since most of our work was Governmental and Municipal. However politics is a no go subject on this forum.
I have also been traveling Germay, France and Hungary visiting relatives and friends since 1983 and I am intimately familiar of how the real people in the street think, feel and how they live. And I pay absolutely no attention what is put out there by anyone connected to a government agency nor the media. The European media is worse than ours when it comes to fake news an propaganda. Those people over there get their PC Propaganda 24/7/365 and that is all they get.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:40 AM   #110
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Another thing that is happening is diesel fuel is being shipped to Europe and gasoline brought back....if one of the refinery’s here in Billings, is shut down very long the fuel supply will be critical as so much is being used in the Williston area....that is helping to keep the price up...but I like my diesel powered pickups..
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:54 AM   #111
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Part of the higher price of diesel in the US is the cost amortization for the equipment startup to get the sulfur level down. Part of the cost difference seems to be demand. I fill up (1/2 tank) about every 2 weeks. Today is the day, so I am thinking about it.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:14 AM   #112
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FWIW, the OP ain't been back since he posed this question on the 18th.
We could have been "trolled"? Which truck and what fuel is always a good way to start a lively discussion.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:33 AM   #113
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Another thing that is happening is diesel fuel is being shipped to Europe and gasoline brought back....if one of the refineryís here in Billings, is shut down very long the fuel supply will be critical as so much is being used in the Williston area....that is helping to keep the price up...but I like my diesel powered pickups..
Won't argue that, I liked all my diesel cars and trucks. I had an Escort with a Diesel engine that got 60 miles per gallon. I don't agree with a lot of the restrictions which drive up maintenance costs. But the industry can't argue with government pressure and is forced to comply.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:52 AM   #114
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Meanwhile, diesel is up to $2.79/gal today in Austin! unfortunately, today I need to fill up my F250...fun to drive, great for pulling, hate the fuel price and service price, but feel very comfortable and safe while pulling our 28' FC.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:10 PM   #115
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Regular gas here is 2.69 a gallon. Gainesville, fl.
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Old 01-23-2018, 03:03 PM   #116
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Reg gas here in Denver, Co is 2.35 per gallon
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:54 PM   #117
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Shortest Forum answer/post I have ever given: "Diesel"!
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:47 AM   #118
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At my age now, its more about what I want than what makes economic sense...I will always have a diesel if I'm pulling an AS 25' or longer for the combined three reasons below:
1. Pulling power of a diesel when towing four tons behind me.
2. Exhaust brake - Not too many things scarier than going down a steep, very long incline worrying about disc brakes overheating trying to slow down a combined 7.5 tons of weight. Exhaust brake sure does help this process.
3. Fuel range - Diesel allows for adding an auxiliary diesel tank to increase range up to 1000 miles. This keeps you from almost never having to pull a 50 foot long rig into a crowded, tight service station.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:24 AM   #119
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Part of the higher price of diesel in the US is the cost amortization for the equipment startup to get the sulfur level down. Part of the cost difference seems to be demand. I fill up (1/2 tank) about every 2 weeks. Today is the day, so I am thinking about it.

Correct, that in addition to averaging profit margins.
There is a locked in segment of the rolling stock that must by Diesel.
When the gasoline market heats up competitively the mark up is raised on Diesel to compensate.
In a real world situation without political gerrymandering Diesel would all ways be cheaper.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:23 AM   #120
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Gas verses Diesel Tow Vehicle

#1: buy whatever you want, itís your money
#2: anybody claiming you canít use a decent gas engine with an 8-speed transmission to slow your descent has either never tried it or doesnít know how. (We descended the Kingsbury Grade out of Tahoe, which is a 9% grade, just fine, with only an occasional light tap on the brakes.)
#3: our 5.7 gas engine and 8 speed transmission performed beautifully all across the country, thru the Rockies, the Appalachians, and any other mountains you care to name.
#4: payload capacity matters, at least to some degree. Salespeople know zero about this and care even less. Check the sticker on the driverís side door for the model youíre considering and do the math.

So, does one *need* a diesel? Who cares? If you want one, buy one, but have fun with whatever you buy, because tow vehicles ainít cheap. If you feel some tearing need to tell everyone who picked something other than your particular engine or truck that they made a terrible decision, I suggest you look inward and consider your motivation.
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