Gas verses Diesel Tow Vehicle

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by mojo

According to the Workhorse website, it can only do 80 miles on electric, but has a gasoline engine that will allow another 310 miles. This is not an electric vehicle.

Nice idea, maybe, some day in the remote future.

"Extended range electric vehicle" brought to the mix by Chevy Volt.

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by pteck

In the great gas vs diesel debate, diesels are not always the best option. Each motor and platform should be considered on its own merits. As we know, not all gas motors are created equal. Some are economy oriented, while others breathe fire. Same with diesels. So the argument is never so simple.

Here's an interesting case study that diesel is not always a great answer, even one with 310 hp and 555 lb-ft torque.

Take the diesel Titan XD. It has generally gotten really bad marks, with Car and Driver saying "most disappointing new vehicles we've evaluated." For lackluster acceleration (9.4 seconds to 60 mph, unladen), ponderous motions, questionable reliability issues (injector, EGR, DEF system), thirst for DEF, and expensive maintenance. But Cummins you say?



Compared to its identical 5.6L gas powered Titan brethren (390hp, 394tq):

- The 5.6L gas Titan XD, has a lower tow rating, but 500lb HIGHER payload rating on account of its engine being lighter
- Gas Titan XD is WAY quicker - 0 to 60 mph in 7.4 seconds (vs 9.4sec) , and quarter-mile in 15.8 seconds (vs 17 sec)
- TFL IKE Guantlet towing test - Diesel was 46 seconds slower!!, towing same heavy load

For those of you that misunderstand the meaning of torque.

I give you Horsepower (it includes torque!). And Weight.

Most likely there will never be agreement between gas VS. diesel or for that mater 1/2, 3/4, or 1 ton. Some are for gas, some are for diesel, some are for 1/2, some for 3/4 ton, some for 1 ton, and then there are some for bigger tonnage. Apples to apples is reasonable and fair. The small diesels VS. the big diesels is not an apple to apple comparison. W/which MFG., ones pick is each persons personal choice. What you tow and what you choose for a TV is personal to each and everyone of us.

Regarding DEF thirst on the Cummins, have not seen this w/ours. Up keep is more than gas, however not that much. I have worn out many gas big blocks. I would not be surprised if our current TV will out live us. Now I have other concern's what to do w/the AS if I have to tow a battery?

Best regards and safe travels to you all. Sorry I can not help it, it is a smile and laugh night.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by mojo

With a payload of 2000 lb+, tow rating of 11,000 lb+, and a range of 500+ miles?

Vehicles for that application are in the vast minority. Majority of vehicles are cars used for commuting.

This discussion is ridiculous.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

Fire up those shuttered coal fired power plants and nuclear reactors 'cause we gonna need a mega load of electricity to power all those electric vehicles...

There is plenty of electric capacity. And power plants create jobs right here. There is nothing wrong with utilities selling more electricity. My 401k will love it. The smoke belching power plant is a fable from 100 years ago.

Don’t worry, no one is going after your diesel pickup. Vast majority of EVs will be for commuting. I’m guessing the pickups retirees use for camping will be powered by internal combustion for a long time to come.

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

There is plenty of electric capacity.

Not if/when everyone is driving EV's.

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

The smoke belching power plant is a fable from 100 years ago.

Tell that to the thousands that have lost their jobs in coal fired power plants that have been shut down and dismantled over the last several years.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

"Extended range electric vehicle" brought to the mix by Chevy Volt.

And after that, see the BMW i3 with a motorcycle engine to recharge.

Mojo, think of the confusion coming when Mazda releases their Skyactive X engine, with compression ignition, running on gasoline. Will we call it a gas engine or a diesel?

[mojo]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Vehicles for that application are in the vast minority. Majority of vehicles are cars used for commuting.

This discussion is ridiculous.

Gee, thanks for pointing that out.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Jeez, I was hoping I'd last more than five more years.🤔

Seriously, an electric vehicle is coming to a driveway near you, sooner than you'd think.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

I have been listening to that sirens song for the last twenty five years. Without subsidies even the measly market in existence today would collapse.
The smaller once make a great second urban car however most people needing a second car can't afford one. You can get a reliable used IC small car for under 10 grand or less.
We have been tinkering with electric cars longer than the IC cars and haven't made much headway in a 100 years.
Until it becomes as affordable and convenient to own as an IC vehicle its not going to make any headway in the market place.

Its like solar panels and Lithium batteries. Got to spend 10 grand plus to boondocks 5 days. And you better not let the batteries freeze.
I can spend a thousand on a good generator and boondock to my hearts delight.

[NCMEDIC]

I'm not a fan boy for any of the manufacturers, but I'm quite happy with our Ram 3500. I deleted the EGR and DPF, and got a boost in both HP and MPG.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

Not if/when everyone is driving EV's.

Tell that to the thousands that have lost their jobs in coal fired power plants that have been shut down and dismantled over the last several years.

EVs won’t be prevalent enough to cause a strain on the grid until long after the grid is upgraded, which is needed now.

Coal power plants are much cleaner now than in the past. That was my point.

Grid upgrades are already needed.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

I have been listening to that sirens song for the last twenty five years. Without subsidies even the measly market in existence today would collapse.
The smaller once make a great second urban car however most people needing a second car can't afford one. You can get a reliable used IC small car for under 10 grand or less.
We have been tinkering with electric cars longer than the IC cars and haven't made much headway in a 100 years.
Until it becomes as affordable and convenient to own as an IC vehicle its not going to make any headway in the market place.

Its like solar panels and Lithium batteries. Got to spend 10 grand plus to boondocks 5 days. And you better not let the batteries freeze.
I can spend a thousand on a good generator and boondock to my hearts delight.

Yeah, a range increase from 20 miles to over 200 is not much of an increase.

Somebody please present some data on subsidies. And I mean real data, not regurgitated internet garbage.

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by NCMEDIC

I'm not a fan boy for any of the manufacturers, but I'm quite happy with our Ram 3500. I deleted the EGR and DPF, and got a boost in both HP and MPG.

The environment thanks you!

This thread is awesome.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

The environment thanks you!

This thread is awesome.

Best post in the whole thread!

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Yeah, a range increase from 20 miles to over 200 is not much of an increase.

Somebody please present some data on subsidies. And I mean real data, not regurgitated internet garbage.

Its impossible to come by. Subsidies should end after they sell something like 250 k units. I believe it varies however they keep gerrymandering the numbers and it never ends.
One would think the subsidies should have expired on the Prius but no.
Even so, you can by a very nice IC car name the brand of your choice, similar in size to the Electrics and Hybrids for under 20 k. Great transportation economical and reliable. That's 30 % under any electric type of car.
And people at that price point are the majority of the car buyers. At the end of the day it isn't what one wishes for it is what one can afford. And that is at the hearth of the matter.
I live on Anna Maria Island in FL. People are buying golf cart type of run around vehicles shelling out upwards 12 k. for a nice 4 seater that can barely go at 30 mph however it is fashionable but at the end of the day it makes no sense aside from just another toy. You can by a nice full size beater for two grand. I keep running my 1998 Explorer I bought new at one time.

[HeadWest]

Going back to the diesel verses gas debate, a lot of people compare a naturally aspirated gas engine to a turbo charged diesel. I only have 3 trucks that I have a lot of experience with towing, a '13 F150 5.0l gas, a '13 F150 3.5l gas turbo, and an F350 6.7l diesel turbo. The 3.5l turbo has a day and night difference over the 5l V8. It has so much more power, especially under loads and at altitude. I'm enjoying the F350 with the diesel and am happy to have switched from the F150 with the 3.5l gas. However, the difference I feel between this two vehicles is substantially less then the difference between the F150 5.0l and the F350.

[Rocinante]

Interesting point. Our RAM 1500 with a 5.7 Liter Hemi is not turbocharged. Honestly, though, it doesn't seem to care much, and pulls our 27FB up and over the Rockies without any drama.

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Interesting point. Our RAM 1500 with a 5.7 Liter Hemi is not turbocharged. Honestly, though, it doesn't seem to care much, and pulls our 27FB up and over the Rockies without any drama.

Just curious about the rear end gear ratio you have in your RAM?

Thanks!

[Rocinante]

Don't really know. It's the standard Max Tow package that was available for the 2014 RAM 1500. 8 speed transmission, all that sexy stuff.

[Florida 55]

Originally Posted by Hans627

For those who use diesel as their TV a few questions:



Do ever have trouble finding diesel fuel as you travel on back roads (not the interstate highways) in rural parts of the country?



Also is getting to the diesel pumps a problem with an AS in tow (again in stations in rural America)?



Thanks!

I have a 2011 F250 diesel. The factory fuel tank is only 26 gallons. At 13 mpg towing, the range is roughly 340 miles. We had one instance driving, from San Antonio to Fort Stockton, where we encountered high headwinds and no stations with diesel along the interstate. We arrived in Fort Stockton and put 24.5 gallons in the tank. I now carry two 2 gallon Rotopax with diesel in the bed of the truck when we are traveling in remote areas. If the truck were new I’d definitely go to the expense of exchanging the OEM tank for the 50 gallon Titan replacement tank. Ford finally increased its F250 standards diesel tank to 34 gallons in 2017.

I’ve never had trouble finding fuel on the backroads, though I’m very careful about refueling when the fuel gauge approaches 1/2 empty. I’ve been on a number of back roads in the West and Great Plains where I’ve gone 50 - 75 miles between stations with diesel.

I have a 27 foot Airstream. Many farmers, loggers, construction workers, and oilfield workers in rural areas tow long work trailers so stations must accommodate them. I rarely encounter a station in rural areas where I can’t maneuver to the diesel pump with the Airstream in tow. Sometimes I do have to wait in line when a station is busy and has only one diesel pump.

My biggest fear with the diesel is getting bad fuel. I try to refuel at stations that pump a lot of gallons. I do carry extra fuel filters with me.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Somebody please present some data on subsidies. And I mean real data, not regurgitated internet garbage.

Not exactly EV, but you could start here.