Ford F-150 Lightning- All Electric Truck

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

You’re so vain.

With apologies to you Carly Simon, I could not resist making the following observations:

If you are over the age of, say 55, Ford, Tesla, Rivan, and for that matter any other EV manufacturer is not targeting you. The folks in their marketing department figure you are over the hill, set in your ways, and with very very few exceptions unlikely to purchase any electric vehicle. They have done lots of marketing research and the posts herein seem to bear this out. Instead, they are interested in the 30 somethings.

While I have not performed a scientific survey, it does seem to be that many airstream owners are fans of Ford, and now suddenly Ford fan boys are taking electric vehicles seriously. Ford, however, is late to the party and is being pulled, kicking and screaming, largely because of Tesla, an American company, employing Americans, building an American vehicle, in America, founded by an visionary(and yes, strange) American who had the guts to invest billions of dollars in research and development to disrupt one of the oldest industries in the world, And despite extremely long odds, appears to be succeeding and leading not only in mind share, market value, and technology, but in real world applications.

It is going to be up to the brave early adopters who are willing to trade some conveniences and value by purchasing early in the product cycle to carry this forward, long after many of us have sold our trailers.

The age breakdown for buyers of electric vehicles based on a January 2019 survey is as follows: <1% are 24 and younger, 46% are 25-54, 22% are 55-64, and 32% are 65 and older. The numbers were slightly different for purchasers of PHEVs: <1% are 24 and younger, 54% are 25-54, 22% are 55-64, and 23% are 65 an older.

https://www.truecar.com/blog/which-g...s-going-green/

Your premise is debatable, but I do agree that people that tow are probably not their target market although I would ask, “Why did Ford send out ads the F150 Lightning pulling and Airstream?”

Quote from the article:

According to TrueCar data, Gen X is buying the most EVs, at 39.8%, followed closely by Millennials at 34.9%. However, Boomers are actually the ones buying the greatest mix of all green vehicles, which includes Electric, Hybrid, Plug-in Hybrid, and Fuel Cell vehicles. That’s right, the generation that can remember a time before the Internet is embracing green vehicles more than the electronic generation itself

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by DewTheDew

People, including the commenter about boondocking, are forgetting about solar power. You can re-charge your truck at your campsite (you cannot fill up with gas at your campsite).

If you are in the South where the sun is more nearly overhead, otherwise, you lose power.


If it is summertime. Otherwise, you lose power.



If you have a sunny day. Otherwise, you lose power.


If your campground is not shady. Otherwise, you lose power.


If you have a shaded campsite in northern Washington state and it is raining, you lose a LOT of power.


Solar is not the end all/be all for most of the country. If you live in the southern Mojave desert, it is all good.

[Bcc75]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

You’re so vain.

With apologies to you Carly Simon, I could not resist making the following observations:

If you are over the age of, say 55, Ford, Tesla, Rivan, and for that matter any other EV manufacturer is not targeting you. The folks in their marketing department figure you are over the hill, set in your ways, and with very very few exceptions unlikely to purchase any electric vehicle. They have done lots of marketing research and the posts herein seem to bear this out. Instead, they are interested in the 30 somethings.

While I have not performed a scientific survey, it does seem to be that many airstream owners are fans of Ford, and now suddenly Ford fan boys are taking electric vehicles seriously. Ford, however, is late to the party and is being pulled, kicking and screaming, largely because of Tesla, an American company, employing Americans, building an American vehicle, in America, founded by an visionary(and yes, strange) American who had the guts to invest billions of dollars in research and development to disrupt one of the oldest industries in the world, And despite extremely long odds, appears to be succeeding and leading not only in mind share, market value, and technology, but in real world applications.

It is going to be up to the brave early adopters who are willing to trade some conveniences and value by purchasing early in the product cycle to carry this forward, long after many of us have sold our trailers.

Elon is certainly an Entrepreneur, and a risk taker , no doubt. I’m sure he and Tesla will enjoy much success. But they have been around 10 years or so. Ford...100 years. Ford will succeed with this. In time.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

You’re so vain.

With apologies to you Carly Simon, I could not resist making the following observations:

If you are over the age of, say 55, Ford, Tesla, Rivan, and for that matter any other EV manufacturer is not targeting you. The folks in their marketing department figure you are over the hill, set in your ways, and with very very few exceptions unlikely to purchase any electric vehicle. They have done lots of marketing research and the posts herein seem to bear this out. Instead, they are interested in the 30 somethings.

While I have not performed a scientific survey, it does seem to be that many airstream owners are fans of Ford, and now suddenly Ford fan boys are taking electric vehicles seriously. Ford, however, is late to the party and is being pulled, kicking and screaming, largely because of Tesla, an American company, employing Americans, building an American vehicle, in America, founded by an visionary(and yes, strange) American who had the guts to invest billions of dollars in research and development to disrupt one of the oldest industries in the world, And despite extremely long odds, appears to be succeeding and leading not only in mind share, market value, and technology, but in real world applications.

It is going to be up to the brave early adopters who are willing to trade some conveniences and value by purchasing early in the product cycle to carry this forward, long after many of us have sold our trailers.

While I'm not a "Tesla short" type, I foresee some EXPENSIVE payouts over Elon's awful decision to let their new cars decide when to shift into gear and which gear to shift into. It's a terrible idea and it's going to wreck a few cars and probably kill a few people before they backtrack and have the software force you to select the gear option (with the dumb touchscreen.)

I have really liked the Model S, but that's the first one on which they're doing away with the manual selector. No stalk, knob or buttons... the new Model S will "intelligently" decide whether you want forward, reverse or park and when. To override that you'll have to go into the center touchscreen and fiddle. It's an ergonomic trainwreck. Less-bad dumb gear selectors in other vehicles have already killed people.

The Cybertruck mystifies me, but I generally don't understand why people who don't need a truck would buy a truck. It's not going to have any better range when towing than the Lightning (likely less, if I were going to place a bet on it, because they're getting their 300 mile highway range at least partially on the surprisingly decent aerodynamics of the weird doorstop shape, and a trailer is going to steal every bit of that advantage and then some. It's going to be impossible to get anything out of the forward portion of the box without climbing into "the vault" because the reach-over from the sides is crazy. If Musk keeps pushing for the magical "AI" gear selection, Cybertruck may hit the market (and a few walls and vehicles and shopping carts) with that.

Ford, likely bringing the first or second electric pickup to market in any serious way (assuming Rivian delivers a bunch in Q3 as scheduled) is "late to the party"? It's an interesting interpretation. They're late on the car/crossover side, I guess, but they've also abandoned the whole car market so I'm not sure about their decisionmaking there.

For the way most half-ton buyers actually USE a truck, the Cybertruck will do fine... because most Americans drive their empty truck to the mall and the office most of the time. No one's going to buy a fleet of Cybertrucks unless it's a marketing stunt, but I suspect Ford and GM will sell quite a few into fleets unless they prove to have problems. Rivian is going to make their real money (in the near term) with their Amazon delivery trucks; their pickup (like the Lightning Platinum) is too expensive for big volume.

[skyguyscott]

Originally Posted by Bcc75

Elon is certainly an Entrepreneur, and a risk taker , no doubt. I’m sure he and Tesla will enjoy much success. But they have been around 10 years or so. Ford...100 years. Ford will succeed with this. In time.

Well, yes, I would counter by pointing out that Tesla has been laser focused on researching, developing, building, testing and perfecting the EV for over ten years now. While Ford has a century of experience with ICE vehicles, labor relations, avoiding bankruptcy, fixing Lincoln, axing Mercury, and managing various fires that break out from time to time.

I would also point out that Henry Ford, another American Entrepreneurial Genius, inventor of the assembly line, paying his workers a generous wage so they could buy what they were building, among other innovations, has much more in common with Elon than any of his successors at the company, including current management.

Just because a company has been around for a while is no guarantee of success, see Sears v Amazon, Pan Am v Southwest, Kodak and Polaroid v Apple, Google, Facebook et.al.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

.....I do agree that people that tow are probably not their target market although I would ask, “Why did Ford send out ads the F150 Lightning pulling an Airstream?”

For the same reason that Jeep ads show their vehicles on the Rubicon Trail, when the vast majority of purchasers are likely only driving to the mall. And why vehicle ads regularly show empty roads in cities, with no traffic congestion.

The truth doesn’t sell as many vehicles.

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by jcl

For the same reason that Jeep ads show their vehicles on the Rubicon Trail, when the vast majority of purchasers are likely only driving to the mall. And why vehicle ads regularly show empty roads in cities, with no traffic congestion.



The truth doesn’t sell as many vehicles.

Bingo. Car salespersons only lie when their mouth is moving. You can take that to the bank…

[gandttimes]

As a former car and truck salesperson, I take great exception to that statement.
What the true statement was is " buyers are liars"

Originally Posted by rmkrum

Bingo. Car salespersons only lie when their mouth is moving. You can take that to the bank…

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by gandttimes

As a former car and truck salesperson, I take great exception to that statement.
What the true statement was is " buyers are liars"

Apologies for over-generalizing. The above is a personal opinion based on 60+ years of experience and a long string of car purchases.

[OTRA15]

How about this broader brush?

"Human beings exaggerate,
over-generalize,
and over-dramatize
almost everything,
including car purchase negotiations,
and online discussions."

[civeng99]

Why all the interest on this topic? We all know anything less than a one ton diesel 4x4 cannot possible tow an air stream.

[farafield]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

You’re so vain.

With apologies to you Carly Simon, I could not resist making the following observations:

If you are over the age of, say 55, Ford, Tesla, Rivan, and for that matter any other EV manufacturer is not targeting you. The folks in their marketing department figure you are over the hill, set in your ways, and with very very few exceptions unlikely to purchase any electric vehicle. They have done lots of marketing research and the posts herein seem to bear this out. Instead, they are interested in the 30 somethings.

While I have not performed a scientific survey, it does seem to be that many airstream owners are fans of Ford, and now suddenly Ford fan boys are taking electric vehicles seriously. Ford, however, is late to the party and is being pulled, kicking and screaming, largely because of Tesla, an American company, employing Americans, building an American vehicle, in America, founded by an visionary(and yes, strange) American who had the guts to invest billions of dollars in research and development to disrupt one of the oldest industries in the world, And despite extremely long odds, appears to be succeeding and leading not only in mind share, market value, and technology, but in real world applications.

It is going to be up to the brave early adopters who are willing to trade some conveniences and value by purchasing early in the product cycle to carry this forward, long after many of us have sold our trailers.

I have to disagree. There are many/most here (presumably over 30) who are excited and supportive of the Ford move. Sure, there are some pointing out problems, but that doesn't mean they aren't supportive. I felt the unveiling was balanced and seemed to reach out to all kinds of people. Bill Ford et al. were "dressed up," not in t-shirt and jeans (like Silicon Valley folks.) And if they have done the research, as you said, and I'm sure it's true, then surely they would know that anyone towing an Airstream is closer to 50 on average.

To your point about Ford being late to the party, I have had a Ford Focus EV for 6 years. The reason I bought it was because the NY Times called it "the Tesla for the masses." They have stopped making that model unfortunately. It makes sense to me that they would focus their F-150—because that is their best selling model by a long shot.

[Dennis C]

I’m 55, so I guess that puts me firmly into the old guy category. I bought a Jaguar I-Pace electric vehicle last year. This car may be marketed towards 30 somethings, but I don’t think that’s the whole story. Most 30 somethings aren’t shopping Jaguar, and most aren’t buying a $90K+ car. Old guys buy most of Jaguar’s cars.

I’m happy for Ford and I’m glad to see them diving into EVs. That said, I probably won’t buy one. I’m more of a GMC guy when it comes to trucks, and they will undoubtedly launch an electric truck in the future after the HUMMER.

My point here is that it’s tough to pinpoint or stereotype the EV buyer because the technology transforming the entire automotive industry. There are early adopters in every age group and demographic.

[steilkurve]

I find this truck awesome. The features, the look, etc. I would have pulled the trigger. Would have hoped for better range though. My experience towing a Bambi 22FB with a Model X is you loose roughly 50% of range. Enough for most weekend getaways. Requires more planning for longer treks.

The range announced by Ford is actually lower than the most recent Model X and 100 miles less than the upcoming long range Rivian, if they deliver the promised goods. To boot, the peak charging rate is slower lengthening charging stops. Really tempted but range and charge rate are not what I would have hoped.

Holding out for the Rivian but will keep an eye out for the second gen of the Lightning and I command Ford for doing this. Overall a most decent product.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by steilkurve

I find this truck awesome. The features, the look, etc. I would have pulled the trigger. Would have hoped for better range though. My experience towing a Bambi 22FB with a Model X is you loose roughly 50% of range. Enough for most weekend getaways. Requires more planning for longer treks.

The range announced by Ford is actually lower than the most recent Model X and 100 miles less than the upcoming long range Rivian, if they deliver the promised goods. To boot, the peak charging rate is slower lengthening charging stops. Really tempted but range and charge rate are not what I would have hoped.

Holding out for the Rivian but will keep an eye out for the second gen of the Lightning and I command Ford for doing this. Overall a most decent product.

I don't know about the charge rate comparison, but in "automotive writer" tests, the Mach-E has tended to exceed Ford's range claims and Teslas generally don't quite hit those marks, so range is likely to be at least what's claimed.

(Note that here I'm referring to the range in normal driving, afaik none of them are even making any towing-range claims)

[skyguyscott]

Whenever the Lightning, Cybertruck and Rivian actually ship and are put to work in the real world, under everyday use, only then will we know their limitations, best-case uses, and comparable strengths and weaknesses. Until then, it's all hype and speculation.

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

Ford, however, is late to the party and is being pulled, kicking and screaming, largely because of Tesla

In reality, Tesla has pulled virtually every automaker kicking and screaming.

Companies like Mercedes, Audi, Volvo, GM and particularly GM had zero plans for electric. In terms of GM it was Bob Lutz that forced the issue, which led to Volt when he made a direct point of asking how a little startup with no auto industry experience can make a car and be selling so well? Of course, it's well documented where Bob also said Tesla is out of business in 3-5 years as they will run out of money.....

**add on comment**

As I've said before, when it comes time to replace my 3/4 truck, I was firmly of the belief that I would get a 3/4 diesel. Up until a year ago, I was pretty firm on that path. I have about 5-8 more years out of this truck and by then, my personal prediction will be that I will be considering an electric tow vehicle. For the record, I am also in my early 50s.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by panamerican

In reality, Tesla has pulled virtually every automaker kicking and screaming.
. . .

Thank you for making this point once again, along with skyguyscott's many valuable recent comments.

Hard to remove blinders from the eyes of ancient crustaceans IMO.

[Dennis C]

I think it's important to think about real world range as opposed to published range. In a year of owning an EV, I've found that range varies considerably based on driving style, ambient temperature, and topography. Additionally, in the real world you'll charge a vehicle long before the battery state of charge reaches 0%. You'll likely be charging closer to 20% or more.

[DewTheDew]

Originally Posted by jcl

For the same reason that Jeep ads show their vehicles on the Rubicon Trail, when the vast majority of purchasers are likely only driving to the mall. And why vehicle ads regularly show empty roads in cities, with no traffic congestion.

The truth doesn’t sell as many vehicles.

But the point is still that the Lightning CAN tow. It cannot tow for 500 miles without a charge but that is not what the ad is showing. Towing the trailer shown is within the capacity of that pickup to do. Maybe it has a range of 150 miles towing, I don't know. But I do 90% of my camping within 150 miles of my house, generally only taking a long trip for Christmas.