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Old 05-20-2021, 01:03 PM   #41
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It seems no one remembers the Chevy Volt, all electric drive-train with a generator under the hood for extended range.
It seems no one BOUGHT the Volt, either. I don't understand why, it seemed a good package overall, but it's a series plug-in hybrid, not an "all-electric vehicle" and it may be that very "neither fish nor fowl" aspect that killed it. I can't see why anyone would've bought a high-trim Cruze or Malibu over a Volt, for example, since the incentives made them fairly competitive, but the Volt was always a slow seller.
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Old 05-20-2021, 01:11 PM   #42
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I'll admit, I do kinda like the idea of a hybrid, having electric motors with an onboard generator (I think I might suggest a diesel, instead of gasoline). I think it'd have been a great way to go with for a pickup. GM said no, they'd not do another hybrid, tho'....

Supposedly the next Tundra will be available as a hybrid...
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Old 05-20-2021, 01:14 PM   #43
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I think the BMW i3 is an electric vehicle with a small gasoline engine that can be used to charge the battery and extended the range. I don't think it's a strong seller for BMW. Having the gasoline engine doesn't seem quite right on an EV, at least not to me.
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Old 05-20-2021, 01:32 PM   #44
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I think the BMW i3 is an electric vehicle with a small gasoline engine that can be used to charge the battery and extended the range. I don't think it's a strong seller for BMW. Having the gasoline engine doesn't seem quite right on an EV, at least not to me.
It doesn't help that the i3 is a weirdly repulsive plasticky little spud that appears to have been cobbled together from pieces of other cars of different models...

The range extender is optional for the i3, it costs $4k and makes the thing SLOWER... minimum starting price for the range-extender version is $48k, though I suppose it might still be eligible for federal rebates since it doesn't seem to be a big seller.
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Old 05-20-2021, 01:43 PM   #45
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It seems no one BOUGHT the Volt, either. I don't understand why, it seemed a good package overall, but it's a series plug-in hybrid, not an "all-electric vehicle" and it may be that very "neither fish nor fowl" aspect that killed it. I can't see why anyone would've bought a high-trim Cruze or Malibu over a Volt, for example, since the incentives made them fairly competitive, but the Volt was always a slow seller.

Pretty easy to understand. If you could get a decked out Cruze for (at the time) around $24-$28k and got about 36MPG highway, and the Volt was $42k (less with various incentive) and was rated at 38 miles electric, then 38-40 on gas (depending on what gen you bought). Add to the fact that GM never really did much advertising or pushing for the car, it wasn't something folks, except a few were interested in and why would GM, they were most likely loosing money on each car built (sold or not). Person in the here and now sees $26k vs $42k, unsure on incentives and long term savings and unsure of the technology, naturally goes with the less expensive Cruze....but long term......

With state and federal incentives and tax credits, I picked up a new 2015 for about $30k loaded, yes the cars value sank like a rock, but I have over 85k of pure electric miles driven on it out of around 92k total miles. Compared to my V8 it replaced, i have saved about $14k in those 85k miles. So really one way to look at it, that Volt cost me so far $16k (numbers vary based on vehicle replaced)...and costs me maybe .25 to charge and go nearly 60 pure electric miles in the summer and about 45 in the winter. As a commuter car, long term, it's hard to beat.

Still it's hard to not wonder if they had put Voltec into a truck or SUV, towing or not, could it have done better than 11-12mpg?

But folks are right....the day is coming.
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Old 05-20-2021, 01:55 PM   #46
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It doesn't help that the i3 is a weirdly repulsive plasticky little spud that appears to have been cobbled together from pieces of other cars of different models...

The range extender is optional for the i3, it costs $4k and makes the thing SLOWER... minimum starting price for the range-extender version is $48k, though I suppose it might still be eligible for federal rebates since it doesn't seem to be a big seller.

i3 is a nice piece of engineering, however besides what has been described, the fatal flaw is that it's nearly impossible to repair based on design and materials used...nearly but not entirely impossible, which all boils down wicked costly to fix if it gets into an accident.

Don't know if the insurance companies take that into account yet. My neighbor just bought a used one and we talked for about an hour about the pros and cons.
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Old 05-20-2021, 02:04 PM   #47
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I went to the John Deere dealership couple of months ago and the guy there, seeing my EV started talking away about all things EV. It seems he reads a lot of Car & Driver type mags which I do not. He said one idea was rather than focusing on charging so much, there were people out there thinking about a system of battery exchanges. You pull into a town, low on "fuel" and swap your depleted battery for a charged one. Now I have no idea about the details around this, but, I think, it's the kind of outside the box thinking we need to condone. If you're not buying an EV because you drive more than 150 miles every once in a while, maybe there's a car borrowing/rental system. Or you swap out your battery when it gets low. I would hope that charging will get faster and batteries will get more storage in time. In any case, I agree with the yea sayers, it is a start! Certainly the Model T had some shortcomings in comparison to the old grey mare in the beginning.
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Old 05-20-2021, 02:14 PM   #48
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Re:i3 repairs my kids have several bmw s and that is true of all of them.
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Old 05-20-2021, 02:20 PM   #49
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Ford F-150 Lightning- All Electric Truck

Living Vehicle trailers have room for over 2600 or 3000 watts of solar and can already do L2 charging of your Tesla if you spec that option. Comes with 24kwh of batteries too in the MAX and 48 kWh in the Pro..and can be spec’d with a built in generator. Not cheap- but getting closer.

Added link:

https://www.livingvehicle.com/models

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While I think there are a many good use-cases for electric vehicles (even electric F150s) I don't think solar charging while camping is going to be a game-changer anytime soon. A good solar suitcase is about 200W... let's say you have 2, for 400w. The long-range Mach-E has an 88 kWh battery pack (I'd expect the F150 pack to be bigger but this will do for now), so 400w at 100% efficiency would require 220 hours of sunlight for a full charge. Of course you never need the full charge, but you'd never get 100% efficiency either, and even if you're aiming the panels, the amount of energy you'll get out of them is lower early and late in the day, etc. It would take several days to get a useful amount of charge from portable panels.
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Old 05-20-2021, 02:24 PM   #50
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I went to the John Deere dealership couple of months ago and the guy there, seeing my EV started talking away about all things EV. It seems he reads a lot of Car & Driver type mags which I do not. He said one idea was rather than focusing on charging so much, there were people out there thinking about a system of battery exchanges. You pull into a town, low on "fuel" and swap your depleted battery for a charged one. Now I have no idea about the details around this, but, I think, it's the kind of outside the box thinking we need to condone. If you're not buying an EV because you drive more than 150 miles every once in a while, maybe there's a car borrowing/rental system. Or you swap out your battery when it gets low. I would hope that charging will get faster and batteries will get more storage in time. In any case, I agree with the yea sayers, it is a start! Certainly the Model T had some shortcomings in comparison to the old grey mare in the beginning.
If/when we get a tremendous breakthrough in battery tech, the battery-swap thing could be a viable model. It's been discussed for decades, but there are issues. The practical one is that battery packs are HEAVY and for designed-as-electric platforms, tend to be integrated into the structure of the vehicle. Another issue is maintenance/variability. Do you want to swap out the brand new battery pack that came with your fancy car for whatever random pack happens to be at the local power-swap shop? That one may be a refurb, or have been abused by a previous user, or have a hidden defect...

If batteries became much more light, cheap and durable per kWh than the current best technology, we might start to see them as fungible. Weirdos like me will probably still look askance at the idea of swapping in some random pack, though... I try not to buy gas at a place that looks like they may not maintain their tanks and filters, or may not sell enough fuel to keep it fresh.
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Old 05-20-2021, 03:16 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by DKB_SATX;
It doesn't help that the i3 is a weirdly repulsive plasticky little spud that appears to have been cobbled together from pieces of other cars of different models...

The range extender is optional for the i3, it costs $4k and makes the thing SLOWER... minimum starting price for the range-extender version is $48k, though I suppose it might still be eligible for federal rebates since it doesn't seem to be a big seller.
We owned an i3 with range extender. Only needed to use the range extender twice in 2 years. It was an interesting concept to combat range anxiety. Ultimately range was never an issue with us because we have at-home charging, so we would just keep it plugged in when at home and it was always ready to roll.

I think i3 (love or hate the looks) is a pretty remarkable car actually - full monocoque carbon fiber unibody. Light and strong. It was surprisingly roomy inside with great visibility. It was / is a technology proving ground for BMW.
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Old 05-20-2021, 03:27 PM   #52
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I remember a Tesla demo where they swapped the battery pack on a Model S in less time that it took to fill the gas tank on a traditional car. I know Tesla was considering this, but I think they've abandoned that strategy.
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Old 05-20-2021, 04:26 PM   #53
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Verge article

Just sharing this one as one of the promotional pics show it towing an Airstream: https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/19/2...ck-specs-price

Am sure someone can identify it better than me but does have 2 axles
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Old 05-20-2021, 04:33 PM   #54
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Thanks for the link. FWIW there is a similar picture in the second post.
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Old 05-20-2021, 05:27 PM   #55
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I really like the idea but I am an electrical engineer. Have you calculated how many solar panel you need to charge the truck in any reasonable amount of time? The specs I have seen say it has a base 110kwh battery. With 200 watt solar panels do the math and see how long it would take to charge
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Old 05-20-2021, 06:34 PM   #56
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I went to the John Deere dealership couple of months ago and the guy there, seeing my EV started talking away about all things EV. It seems he reads a lot of Car & Driver type mags which I do not. He said one idea was rather than focusing on charging so much, there were people out there thinking about a system of battery exchanges. You pull into a town, low on "fuel" and swap your depleted battery for a charged one. Now I have no idea about the details around this, but, I think, it's the kind of outside the box thinking we need to condone. If you're not buying an EV because you drive more than 150 miles every once in a while, maybe there's a car borrowing/rental system. Or you swap out your battery when it gets low. I would hope that charging will get faster and batteries will get more storage in time. In any case, I agree with the yea sayers, it is a start! Certainly the Model T had some shortcomings in comparison to the old grey mare in the beginning.
One EV developer already has this and using it on their EVs. There was a video Wall Street Journal article. The main problem is standardization. Even charging stations aren’t standardized.
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Old 05-20-2021, 06:43 PM   #57
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Has anyone ever seen a charging station where you can pull in to charge without first unhooking your trailer and leaving it somewhere else? Most all charging station I've encountered are up against a wall or a curb where you have to back in or out. They are going to have to figure that out.
Yes. Some Superchargers have one bay that doesn’t require backing in.

The heavy duty truck charging stations are all pull through.
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Old 05-20-2021, 06:48 PM   #58
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I am dismayed at how many people just want to list reasons it won't work instead of looking at the problem a different way. I am pretty sure that long-haul Airstream owners are not their target market for the near term. What is amazing is that a major manufacturer is announcing an electric pickup truck that will probably be a drop-in replacement for 80% of existing 1/2 tons given how they are used. Who would have bet on that ten years ago? It is incredible!
This.

Not only a major manufacturer, but the manufacturer of the single most popular ICE vehicle sold in North America. If it works, it will greatly increase the rate at which ICE vehicles (not just pickups) are declared obsolete. Nails in coffins.
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Old 05-20-2021, 06:55 PM   #59
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I think EVs are here to stay and a generally good idea. However, my concern is how much of the hype is a result of real world demand, and how much is due to the government carbon talk and car builders trying to create demand. The difference between the Ford Model T and the F150 Lightning is that the Model T offered an entirely different traveling experience. The F150 Lightning only provides a different kind of vehicle engine. That’s entirely different.

In Norway, where EVs are the #1 seller, the government basically has to subsidize so heavily to get people to buy them that they are actually cheaper than gas vehicles.

I still believe the hybrid for a pickup that tows is the better way to go for now; at least until the battery costs, range, and charging issues are solved. Until then an EV pickup will be used for short trip towing applications. And that’s fine. But hybrids are still far more popular and more marketable.

Sales of electric vehicles (EVs) – battery only – grew by 44.8% year over year, reaching nearly 100,000 sales in the quarter, a record. Sales of hybrid vehicles outpaced both the market and EVs, doubling to more than 200,000 in the quarter. The overall automobile market increased by 11.4% in Q1.

I have also heard an environmentalist state that hybrid technology actually would reduce carbon emissions more quickly and have a greater impact than EVs. I suppose that is debatable. I am no expert. But it seems that if the issue is carbon emissions that conversation needs to happen.

I have a Chrysler Pacifica. It has a hybrid engine on the new model. I would first go that direction long before going all EV at this point. It basically runs electric for most driving, until you get on the highway for long trips.

Ultimately it is the consumer that will determine the future of EVs and the type of EVs as with any other product. The car builders have to give what the consumer wants or it is a losing proposition. Just like with anything else there will be early adopters, middle adopters, and hesitant adopters. That is true for any product. But car builders have to get to that 2nd tier or it won’t happen. Not enough profit.
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Old 05-20-2021, 06:59 PM   #60
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You probably think this truck is about you, don’t you?

You’re so vain.

With apologies to you Carly Simon, I could not resist making the following observations:

If you are over the age of, say 55, Ford, Tesla, Rivan, and for that matter any other EV manufacturer is not targeting you. The folks in their marketing department figure you are over the hill, set in your ways, and with very very few exceptions unlikely to purchase any electric vehicle. They have done lots of marketing research and the posts herein seem to bear this out. Instead, they are interested in the 30 somethings.

While I have not performed a scientific survey, it does seem to be that many airstream owners are fans of Ford, and now suddenly Ford fan boys are taking electric vehicles seriously. Ford, however, is late to the party and is being pulled, kicking and screaming, largely because of Tesla, an American company, employing Americans, building an American vehicle, in America, founded by an visionary(and yes, strange) American who had the guts to invest billions of dollars in research and development to disrupt one of the oldest industries in the world, And despite extremely long odds, appears to be succeeding and leading not only in mind share, market value, and technology, but in real world applications.

It is going to be up to the brave early adopters who are willing to trade some conveniences and value by purchasing early in the product cycle to carry this forward, long after many of us have sold our trailers.
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