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Old 11-09-2022, 12:25 PM   #1
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Ford-150 Camshaft phasers - Question

I have a 2017 F-150 Lariat. At 40,000 miles, the engine would sometimes "roar" when I turned it on along with rough idling/knocking noises. I took it to Ford who checked it and said it was fine. At 49,000 miles, I brought the truck back to Ford with same complaint. This time they said there was a "notice" on this problem and fixing it would involve me leaving the truck with them for 3 days to replace the camshaft seals. There was no charge as I was still within the 50,000 mile warranty.
At 82,000 miles, the truck started roaring and knocking again and I took it to Ford. They said my camshaft seals needed to be replaced again and would cost $6400. I asked what would happen if I did NOT get it repaired. I ended up talking to a Ford mechanic in their garage area who said nothing bad would happen but "it might get noisier." I asked him if this repair would be required in another 42,000 miles and he had no idea.
I didn't let them repair it but did call the Ford Customer Service Line and told the tech rep what happened. She assigned me a case number, got the name of the Ford dealership I used, said she was my rep, and gave me her email and direct phone number; and that she would contact me within 48 hours. I never heard from her again. Emails came back as undeliverable. Her phone's voicemail was full. I tried on four different occasions to reach her but no joy.
Here is the question: Can someone with knowledge of camshaft phasers and seals tell me why I want to get this fixed? And/or what is the worst thing that could happen if I don't get it fixed?
Thanks.
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Old 11-09-2022, 12:57 PM   #2
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Sorry not first hand info. But look at https://m.youtube.com/c/FordTechMakuloco and search videos for cam phasers.
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Old 11-09-2022, 01:15 PM   #3
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3.5 EcoBoost?
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Old 11-09-2022, 03:26 PM   #4
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I have 2011 ecoboost. At 142000km timing chain failed. Had it replaced at Ford. Soon after I started to get the rattle at start up(intermittently). Have not had anything done about it and now have 272000km on engine. As soon as oil pressure rises the noise is gone. It is the cam shaft phase shifter that makes this noise. It is annoying but I don’t think it is a serious problem. Not worth replacing the shifters now. Would need to replace 4.
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Old 11-09-2022, 04:30 PM   #5
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I have a 2017 F150 3.5 Ecoboost with 88,000 miles. Recently had the cam phasers replaced under the extended warranty. Cost me $100, without the warranty they said it would be in the $3,000 range. A friend with the same model year truck also had his replaced at around 65,000 miles. You'll find lots of info using Google about this known issue.

Cam phaser failure has to do with an internal oil leak. They make a loud knocking/clacking noise for about a second or so when making a cold start. Even if sitting for an hour or so. The sound is comparable to what an older diesel engine makes at idle. What I've been told is eventually they wear to a point where they don't properly advance or retard the valves resulting in an error that causes the computer to shut off the engine.
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Old 11-09-2022, 06:30 PM   #6
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There are lockout kits and kits plus tunes that are not that difficult to install if you are mechanically inclined. Even listed on Amazon. Very common problem that I read up on when looking at F150 a while back. I would post a link but there are so many that better you do a search on your own.
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Old 11-09-2022, 10:44 PM   #7
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Yes, but just addresses the symptoms , and of course the engine is forever handicapped in its power potential. I was told by the mechanic who repaired my truck that the replacement parts are different and that he's never seen a failure in the new parts.
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Old 11-10-2022, 07:02 AM   #8
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GCinSC2 many thanks for the link:
This link is equivalent to a Public Service Announcement and would have saved me from having to get a second camshaft replacement done again. It all comes down to bad parts. Apparently, Ford has a large leftover stock of the old style camshaft phasers that they have authorized dealerships to keep using to replace bad ones with - even though they have new style phasers available that would cure the defect permanently. Are you kidding me?
So, what they did (per the Ford Repair Specialist in the video) is 'fixed' my camshaft problem under warranty with the same defective part which set me up for repeated repairs every 40,000 to 60,000 miles. People sue for less and if I was litigious and had the time and money, I might go after Ford for this.
So moving on, the most valuable part of this video is the repair guy provides the parts number for the new style camshafts that Ford has made to replace the old style ones; and does a side-by-side comparison of the old and the new. Big difference in quality.
I have always used an independent shop to maintain my vehicles but when the owner retired two years ago, I decided to give a local Ford dealership a try. That "try" is over and I will never go back. Dishonest. Predatory. Arrogant. Expensive. Always adding additional services not asked for. Replacing bad parts with bad parts. Reminders to give them a 5-star rating no matter how discourteous, abrupt and impersonal they were.
I am all done with Ford.
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Old 11-10-2022, 07:32 AM   #9
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Iím not a Ford guy but I have watched several of FTMís hands on no BS videos and rate his info pretty highly.

And looks like with total channel views of 206M he must know something.

Good luck.
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Old 11-10-2022, 07:51 AM   #10
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The camshaft phasers operate primarily with oil pressure. Phasers change the way the cams rotate at different engine speeds. On start up there is no oil pressure. For that condition, there is a spring in the phasers to hold the adjustment in the start position. The problem is that the spring fails. A way to deal with this is to run the engine in flood mode for a few seconds prior to starting to build oil pressure. Flood mode is holding both the brake and the throttle to the floor while pushing the start button. No fuel is supplied so the engine turns, but will not start. That builds oil pressure to operate the phasers. After a few seconds, start the truck normally. YouTube channel Ford Boss Me has info on this.

There was a service action on these engines asking you to have the Powertrain Control Module reprogrammed. It is program 21N03 and Field Service Action 21B10. If you had that reprogram done by the end of 2021, you have an extended warranty that should cover 33% of the cost (and hopefully get warranty rates on the repair). Search "ford customer satisfaction program 21B10" for more info. Ask your dealer if this was done.
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Old 11-10-2022, 08:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatLee View Post
GCinSC2 many thanks for the link:
This link is equivalent to a Public Service Announcement and would have saved me from having to get a second camshaft replacement done again. It all comes down to bad parts. Apparently, Ford has a large leftover stock of the old style camshaft phasers that they have authorized dealerships to keep using to replace bad ones with - even though they have new style phasers available that would cure the defect permanently. Are you kidding me?
So, what they did (per the Ford Repair Specialist in the video) is 'fixed' my camshaft problem under warranty with the same defective part which set me up for repeated repairs every 40,000 to 60,000 miles. People sue for less and if I was litigious and had the time and money, I might go after Ford for this.
So moving on, the most valuable part of this video is the repair guy provides the parts number for the new style camshafts that Ford has made to replace the old style ones; and does a side-by-side comparison of the old and the new. Big difference in quality.
I have always used an independent shop to maintain my vehicles but when the owner retired two years ago, I decided to give a local Ford dealership a try. That "try" is over and I will never go back. Dishonest. Predatory. Arrogant. Expensive. Always adding additional services not asked for. Replacing bad parts with bad parts. Reminders to give them a 5-star rating no matter how discourteous, abrupt and impersonal they were.
I am all done with Ford.
As soon as I saw this I watched the video and checked the repair receipt from the dealership for my truck's recent cam phaser replacement. With relief I saw they installed the new model intake and exhaust cam phasers. Hopefully the claim about the practice of replacing bad parts with bad parts is over.
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Old 11-10-2022, 03:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
As soon as I saw this I watched the video and checked the repair receipt from the dealership for my truck's recent cam phaser replacement. With relief I saw they installed the new model intake and exhaust cam phasers. Hopefully the claim about the practice of replacing bad parts with bad parts is over.
Or, maybe they ran out of the bad parts.
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Old 11-11-2022, 05:32 AM   #13
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Get it fixed by a competent mechanic shop. It does not need to be ford that does the work if they are capable of doing the job.

Replacing the whole truck, or fixing what you got is an easy choice as trucks are still extremely expensive on the used market still.
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Old 11-11-2022, 08:25 AM   #14
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DCPAS - yes, I received that notice and had the reprogram done at Ford. I have 102,000 miles on the truck and warranty coverage ends before that.
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Old 11-11-2022, 08:29 AM   #15
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OP update: I purchased 4 new-style camshaft phasers (2 intake/2 exhaust) from a Maryland Ford dealer yesterday for $176. I also got a resounding recommendation from a Facebook page for a local auto service shop. They quoted me an estimate for camshaft phaser replacement of $2,000 and will need to keep the truck for several days.
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Old 11-16-2022, 01:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatLee View Post
I have a 2017 F-150 Lariat. At 40,000 miles, the engine would sometimes "roar" when I turned it on along with rough idling/knocking noises. I took it to Ford who checked it and said it was fine. At 49,000 miles, I brought the truck back to Ford with same complaint. This time they said there was a "notice" on this problem and fixing it would involve me leaving the truck with them for 3 days to replace the camshaft seals. There was no charge as I was still within the 50,000 mile warranty.
At 82,000 miles, the truck started roaring and knocking again and I took it to Ford. They said my camshaft seals needed to be replaced again and would cost $6400. I asked what would happen if I did NOT get it repaired. I ended up talking to a Ford mechanic in their garage area who said nothing bad would happen but "it might get noisier." I asked him if this repair would be required in another 42,000 miles and he had no idea.
I didn't let them repair it but did call the Ford Customer Service Line and told the tech rep what happened. She assigned me a case number, got the name of the Ford dealership I used, said she was my rep, and gave me her email and direct phone number; and that she would contact me within 48 hours. I never heard from her again. Emails came back as undeliverable. Her phone's voicemail was full. I tried on four different occasions to reach her but no joy.
Here is the question: Can someone with knowledge of camshaft phasers and seals tell me why I want to get this fixed? And/or what is the worst thing that could happen if I don't get it fixed?
Thanks.

I have a 2019 F150 Sport with the Eco Boost V6. I got a notice about 1 year ago regarding the Cam Shaft Fasers - it was an informational notice and not a recall. I took it to the Ford dealer and they performed a recommended flash adjustment. At the time I only had a noise when the engine started cold - a kind of clunking. The flash worked untill 2 months ago when I started to get a sound on cold starts that sounded like a chain rattling in the engine. It only lasted for a second on startup. I took it to the Ford dealer where I live now and they diagnosed the problem as the Cam Shaft Fasers. They told me that since I had done the Flash fix they could submit a request to Ford to replace the Cam Shaft Fasers under warranty. I asked the same questions as you regarding urgency and down the road problems. They explained to me that the Cam Shaft Fasers are controlled by oil pressure and that they were slowly leaking the oil pressure in them when the engine sat overnight and long term Ford said it would not be a problem. So the noise is the Cam Shaft Chain actually rattling because it is loose until the oil pressure comes up. I told them I thought it best not to have that happening and they submitted the request and got approval from Ford to do the repair. It took a month for them to get the parts, and it was a 3 day job once they got the parts. Bottom line is no more noise and the truck seems to be running a lot better, increased MPG and a little more power. I hope this helps you.
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Old 11-17-2022, 09:07 AM   #17
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lento - thank you. I'm glad you asked them to fix it under warranty, as my Ford dealer wants to charge me $6400 to fix it again.
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Old 11-17-2022, 10:54 AM   #18
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My neighbor replaced his camshaft phasers, still wasn’t right. He found the oil pressure gauge is an idiot gauge it registered normal with 6 lbs oil pressure…he replaced the bearings and it raised the oil pressure so all was fine..100,000 miles
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Old 12-08-2022, 09:44 PM   #19
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The motor is built to actually rotate the camshafts to change the timing, in order to give either good gas mileage or extra power, ……the systems are notorious for failure, which typically is attributed to poor lubrication……in a nutshell, if you don’t fix it, it will result in catastrophic engine failure. The problem is, the repair to fix it is very expensive. Just like GM with the active fuel management fiasco, they will avoid getting into it like the plague, at least until your warranty is out…..
It is said the situation is exasperated by dirty oil, and I have heard of denied repair claims based on poor maintenance……

The sad truth is, the 5.4 3v engine should be avoided at all costs…..the 2v 5.4 is good motor.
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Old 12-09-2022, 05:16 AM   #20
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Update from original poster: I got my F-150 Ecoboost truck back from Chesapeake Truck yesterday, in Upper Marlboro, MD. They predicted it would take 2 weeks to repair. I had asked that while they had the engine apart, that they replace anything else that made sense to replace. It took them 9 days and cost me $5200. They replaced the cam phasers, timing belt/chain, two timing chains/tensioners; water pump; spark plugs, gaskets (lot of gaskets); seal assembly/crankshaft oil; replaced antifreeze; synthetic oil replacement - basically replaced all "one-time use parts." Other "regular" Ford dealerships wanted $6400 and that was just to replace the cam phasers. Highly recommend Chesapeake Ford Truck in Upper Marlboro, Their focus is on BIG Ford truck engines, but they will work on any Ford vehicles as well. They are not a "get it done while you wait" kind of facility. You drop it off and they call you when it's fixed.
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