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Old 09-18-2019, 09:49 AM   #21
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Hi

Since you have what you have, I would not go shopping for another truck. I also would not load up the trailer with a whole bunch of stuff from the truck either. Get aggressive about leaving stuff at home !!!

A reasonable target would be to get the axle weights down to 80% of the max ratings. Like pretty much everything else mentioned it's just a rule of thumb. The idea is that you then have some "room" if you load things a bit differently on this or that trip.

Bob
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:17 AM   #22
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If anyone was in doubt about whether to get a 1500 or 2500, this should clear it up.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:25 AM   #23
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Before I get into it, want to know if TT has 1 or 2 axles?
I assume 2 so tandem-axle, then most weight is distributed to front of TV with WDH engaged.

And what is the GAWR of each axle?

Front still has 200 lbs left, and you , even if 250 lbs weighing, on the driversseat only give about 150 lbs max on frontseat, because your gravitypoint i( about at your belly button) is placed almost in the middle between front and rear axle.

About the differences in total weight , it could just be because of inacuracy. Even a calibrated scale is allowed 1 step ( think here 20 lbs) off, and becsuse rounding to nearest step, it can mean 30 lbs different from real weight per weighing unit.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:58 AM   #24
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Two words - Haul Guage. Check it out. It costs about $100 and plugs into your diagnostic port and the app on your phone gives you the wight of your truck loaded, unloaded, each axle weight, the weight of your wd set up with the axle wt of your front and rear axle and the weight of your trailer axles. Problem with CAT scales is that your wts constantly change. With this device, it gives you real-time measurements that are dynamic and, in my opinion, using this device - right on. An added plus is that you can plug it into other vehicles to check their wts as well. My friend has a Bambi and he didn't believe the tongue wt it was showing so we had him sit on his Explorer with the tailgate up and it showed his additional wt exactly. Made him a believer and changed his perspective on the weight distribution on that trailer. Nothing wrong with CAT scales, you can use them as a back up to this device but you can't have those scales after loading your tanks and putting additional gear in the back of your truck each and every time you adapt to changing circumstances. I don't sell them, only bought one and used it and my experience was a very good one. Yours might be different. Check it out in any event and evaluate it yourself.
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:36 AM   #25
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Hi

If a calibrated scale is "not accurate enough" the low bidder sensors in your truck are *not* going to be the better answer ..... They most certainly are not designed for a high level of accuracy.

Bob
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Old 09-20-2019, 05:08 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauerg View Post
Two words - Haul Guage. Check it out. It costs about $100 and plugs into your diagnostic port and the app on your phone gives you the wight of your truck loaded, unloaded, each axle weight, the weight of your wd set up with the axle wt of your front and rear axle and the weight of your trailer axles. Problem with CAT scales is that your wts constantly change. With this device, it gives you real-time measurements that are dynamic and, in my opinion, using this device - right on. An added plus is that you can plug it into other vehicles to check their wts as well. My friend has a Bambi and he didn't believe the tongue wt it was showing so we had him sit on his Explorer with the tailgate up and it showed his additional wt exactly. Made him a believer and changed his perspective on the weight distribution on that trailer. Nothing wrong with CAT scales, you can use them as a back up to this device but you can't have those scales after loading your tanks and putting additional gear in the back of your truck each and every time you adapt to changing circumstances. I don't sell them, only bought one and used it and my experience was a very good one. Yours might be different. Check it out in any event and evaluate it yourself.
Great info, thanks
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Old 09-21-2019, 07:19 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

Since you have what you have, I would not go shopping for another truck. I also would not load up the trailer with a whole bunch of stuff from the truck either. Get aggressive about leaving stuff at home !!!

A reasonable target would be to get the axle weights down to 80% of the max ratings. Like pretty much everything else mentioned it's just a rule of thumb. The idea is that you then have some "room" if you load things a bit differently on this or that trip.

Bob
Yep; I'm too cheap to buy another truck now and since we have a fair amount of headroom with trailer weight I can move a few things (and leave a few things!). So far I hadn't made any effort at all so with not too much I can get this sorted, but I am eyeing those "moved to an F250" threads with some envy.... :-)

To answer the other question, it is a dual-axle trailer.
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Old 09-21-2019, 07:21 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by m rafferty View Post
If anyone was in doubt about whether to get a 1500 or 2500, this should clear it up.
Yes; that was part of the reason I posted this was so I could refer to it when people ask if an F150 is sufficient. It is, but it requires some thought about how one loads and what one brings.
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Old 09-21-2019, 03:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewTheDew View Post
Yep; I'm too cheap to buy another truck now and since we have a fair amount of headroom with trailer weight I can move a few things (and leave a few things!). So far I hadn't made any effort at all so with not too much I can get this sorted, but I am eyeing those "moved to an F250" threads with some envy.... :-)

To answer the other question, it is a dual-axle trailer.
The F250, or any other 3/4 ton truck, is not always the right answer. If it is under geared and/or under powered it still is not enough. I bought a brand new 3/4 ton pickup that was not geared properly for towing. It struggled towing my 6,400 lb Safari in the mountains.
I paid a lot for this education.
Towing capacity is about how the truck is equipped.
1/2 ton or 3/4 ton is about the vehicle's ability to carry a load. Either can be a good tow vehicle, if equipped properly.
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Old 09-21-2019, 05:04 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by A W Warn View Post
The F250, or any other 3/4 ton truck, is not always the right answer. If it is under geared and/or under powered it still is not enough. I bought a brand new 3/4 ton pickup that was not geared properly for towing. It struggled towing my 6,400 lb Safari in the mountains.
I paid a lot for this education.
Towing capacity is about how the truck is equipped.
1/2 ton or 3/4 ton is about the vehicle's ability to carry a load. Either can be a good tow vehicle, if equipped properly.
I agree! My truck now has sufficient power with the 3.55 axle. A 3/4 ton with a 3.55 should be fine, especially if it is a diesel. Even the 6.2V8 is likely fine; I don't live in the west with big mountains (of course the 2020 also has the 7.3V8 option with a ten speed!). But I would need to look at the sticker on the door jamb to see how much it would exceed my current 1,500lb payload capacity. If it only goes up a couple hundred pounds then it isn't worth it. Right now that is my limitation.
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Old 09-21-2019, 06:07 PM   #31
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RAM calls for 50% FALR on their 2500 and 3500, but only 33% FALR on their 1500. Might be a limitation of the strength of the stock receiver.
For 2020 GMC DuraMax, the operator's manual states that WD hitch is not required for trailer weights up to 20,000 lbs (which is the max trailer weight with conventional hitch). If you choose to use WD, it calls for only 25% FALR.
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Old 09-21-2019, 08:40 PM   #32
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First weigh of truck and AS

Yeah the thing is with the diesel, the front end is already so heavy (my front axle weight is 4,600lbs with nothing in the truck) that you simply aren’t going to remove or add much weight when you drop 1,000 lbs on the ball or ratchet up WD. Maybe +/- 150 pounds. There is just too much mass across a long lever (wheelbase) you are trying to move in either direction with the tongue weight of an airstream.

Understeer just isn’t a concern with 4,500 lbs +/-on the front axle.

That being said you definitely want sway control. Whether the truck reacts to it or not a trailer will sway naked on the ball.

I recently moved to a ProPride for this reason. I have very little weight distribution action - just not really needed... but I am safeguarded with sway control / elimination.

Fully fully loaded wet ready for camping with passengers and trailer attached the my 2500 weighs in at ~10,500 lbs and sits pretty level with about 1” more height in the rear vs the front which is what I want (I run about 5,800lbs on the rear axle with still more headroom as the GAWR is 6,200.)

Btw - the 2020 GMC 2500 duramax has exactly the same gross axle weight ratings as the previous generation (like my ‘17). It has a slightly higher GVWR interestingly enough though...
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:05 AM   #33
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Yeah the thing is with the diesel, the front end is already so heavy (my front axle weight is 4,600lbs with nothing in the truck) that you simply aren’t going to remove or add much weight when you drop 1,000 lbs on the ball or ratchet up WD. Maybe +/- 150 pounds. There is just too much mass across a long lever (wheelbase) you are trying to move in either direction with the tongue weight of an airstream.

Understeer just isn’t a concern with 4,500 lbs +/-on the front axle.


My experience with my 2013 Duramax is similar and different to this.

My front end is also 4660 but loses nearly 500# when connected to the trailer with no WD on the ProPride. My tongue weight (calculated from 3-pass scale run) is just about 1000#. I have the extended cab and 6.5’ bed so maybe that’s shorter than others.

At any rate, if it lifted only 150# off the front end, I’d probably end up putting a couple inches on the WD jacks but with the way mine works, I use about 6” to restore most if not all of what left the steer axle. Less than that results in porpoising and noticeably different feel at the wheel for me.

I guess everyone’s mileage can vary on this stuff....this is my experience - not a rule for anyone else to follow
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Old 09-22-2019, 08:00 AM   #34
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A diesel engine and transmission load up the front end quite a bit. When I drop 1000 lbs on the hitch ball I now get even loading on both axles. No weight distribution is necessary. And because I have the full tongue weight on the rear axle the trailer doesn't sway and no sway control device is required.
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Old 09-22-2019, 08:34 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSueMac;
My experience with my 2013 Duramax is similar and different to this.

My front end is also 4660 but loses nearly 500# when connected to the trailer with no WD on the ProPride. My tongue weight (calculated from 3-pass scale run) is just about 1000#. I have the extended cab and 6.5’ bed so maybe that’s shorter than others.

At any rate, if it lifted only 150# off the front end, I’d probably end up putting a couple inches on the WD jacks but with the way mine works, I use about 6” to restore most if not all of what left the steer axle. Less than that results in porpoising and noticeably different feel at the wheel for me.

I guess everyone’s mileage can vary on this stuff....this is my experience - not a rule for anyone else to follow

Very interesting. I have the extended cab and 6.5’ bed as well.I am running 5” on my propride jacks... I consider this “very little” WD - there is absolutely load on the bars, I’m just not cranking it like crazy.

I’ll do another pass on the scales to be sure I’m not loosing my mind
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:29 AM   #36
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A diesel engine and transmission load up the front end quite a bit. When I drop 1000 lbs on the hitch ball I now get even loading on both axles.


Do you know this from the 3-pass method on the scales or some other scale tool - or are you assuming this to be the case?
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:34 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
Very interesting. I have the extended cab and 6.5’ bed as well.I am running 5” on my propride jacks... I consider this “very little” WD - there is absolutely load on the bars, I’m just not cranking it like crazy.

I’ll do another pass on the scales to be sure I’m not loosing my mind


You’re not losing your mind

I’d have to go back and look but 5”, 5.5” and 6” all moved a bit of weight back to the front end. If you’re only lifting 150# off, I’m surprised 5” isn’t putting more than that back on the front end. I don’t 100% trust my first numbers that showed this because I found out the following year the hitch needed some significant adjustments for proper installation...

If you have the time try it at 6” then 5” and see what the difference in weight is. If you’re replacing more at 5” than is lost when you connect, keep going lower by 1” increments and see what you find out. Would be fun to learn what you see!
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:45 AM   #38
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Do you know this from the 3-pass method on the scales or some other scale tool - or are you assuming this to be the case?
I used a truck scale, which I used to confirm my calculations. Both tell me I have close to equal loading on both axles.
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:48 AM   #39
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I actually have a little more load on the rear axle, but I have 78% to 79% of GAWR on both axles. The rear axle has a little bit higher GAWR.
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:48 PM   #40
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I used a truck scale, which I used to confirm my calculations. Both tell me I have close to equal loading on both axles.


I have to assume this means something different than the 3 pass method? I don’t know what calculations you did or what process you used on a truck scale to confirm your calculations but if you’re not using WD you’re not using the 3 pass method.

Are you willing to share your scale tickets that show your truck weights ready for camping both solo and then with trailer attached (and obviously no WD)?
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