Fantasy Tow Vehicle - May the Forces Be With You

[xrvr]

Can 20 inch tires be had with enough load rating? Jim

[Andrew T]

The 245/45 20's have around 600 pounds per axle of excess capacity also since they are a high speed tire they dissipate heat well and run nice a cool at towing speeds. Our Charger which has extensive towing, and you don't want to know what it has been asked to do over the years has the same size.

[mstephens]

Andrew,
That's quite a recommendation on the 300.

Q: Did you mount an extra transmission cooler?
Qid you have to fabricate the hitch, or is it a off the shelf Class IV?


I am really keen on buying one. Any additional info on the hitch would be great. Right now, I am having trouble convincing the wife that this will tow the trailer. She seems stunned that a lowly sedan would tow anything, let alone our baby. I guess I did a good job two years ago selling her the Suburban!

I did find one sore spot on the 300 design. The visibility is poor. And yes, that goofy shifter is just ridiculous and has no obvious functional advantage from what I can tell.

Thanks for commenting in this thread. I am going to have my wife read it first thing this morning!

If I can manage to pull this off and get rid of the 'Burb I will feel like I have entered the Tech Era in towing.

[dkottum]

We use a 2012 Ram Hemi 1500 for the Airstream, a VW Jetta TDI when home for trips, a Suzuki Samaria for zipping about our little town. All work very well but looking to have one less vehicle and have an eye on the Dodge Durango.

Am impressed with Andrew T's report on the Chrysler 300 3.6 V6 eight speed transmission, but I think we need more interior space. The 2014 Durango has this engine/transmission standard rated to tow 6200#, 1200# less than the V8. The V6 and V8 use different transmissions, both ZF eight speeds. Otherwise they seem to share the same chassis. Both are available with the same 20" wheels/tires.

The 6200# tow rating is close to our traveling Airstream, so I have thought I needed the V8. Now I'm wondering if the V6 would do nearly as well in the heavier, less aerodynamic Durango as in the Chrysler 300?

Also have considered the new Jeep GC diesel, but looks like the $4500 diesel option and probable higher maintenance costs would erase any fuel savings; the only advantage would be high torque at low rpm when going up steep grades.

Anyone pulling an Airstream with one of these new 8 speed V6 SUV's have a report?

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by mstephens

If I can manage to pull this off and get rid of the 'Burb I will feel like I have entered the Tech Era in towing.

Burb

About 15 years ago we got the idea to get back into RVing and thought about a TV. My first thought was to buy an older Burb and go to work on it. Marine cam, headers, rims, tires, gear set, suspension kit, performance brake kit etc, etc. Then I thought about the time and cost to put the project together and did a quick back step. Soon after that my first visit to Can Am shed new light on the TV thing.

Decided to simply set up our Nissan Mini van as a TV and in the end it was so much the right decision. Great ride, reliable, and compared to a Burb great fuel economy which is important when living in Canada.

[mstephens]

Happy Camper Today!

I hunted and hunted and looked and looked and then I found it. A gorgeous 2012 Chrysler 300 S model, with everything, and in "like new" condition. I believe the word is "cream puff." I bought it and will pick it up Saturday am.

It has the V6 and 8-Speed with paddle shifters - an almost impossible find! It has 265/45/20 tires, and it just drives like a dream. I was amazed at how quite those low profile 20s were. Much quieter than the plain 300 I drove with 18" tires. On top of all the mechanical goodies it has Garman Nav with a beautiful 8" screen, and some kind of massive stereo (which I don't care about, but maybe the wife will like it). Power seats on both sides, memory seats, and very nicely stitched black leather. It has 32,000 miles.

I just can't wait to get a hitch on this thing and see how it tows. I have really high expectations.

As for roominess, sure, it will be a little tighter than the 'Burb, But, we are only two adults and a small dog. The trunk is very large and as a bonus the rear seat backs fold almost flat down. I think we will be fine on space, but it will take a little more care in packing.

Andy, if you are still reading, I may prevail on you to just suggest a proper brand of receiver and any hints you might pass on about welding the receiver. It might be time for me to change hitch to the EazLift.

[m.hony]

I just sold my EazLift...

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by mstephens

Happy Camper Today!

Congratulations mstephens.

Will look forward to hearing about your 1st towing report. We were lucky when we bought our Infiniti. Mr. T had it hooked up and towing in a very short time. The modern V6's have so much power. I still get giddy thinking of the first drive with the Airstream in tow.

[mstephens]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

Congratulations mstephens.

Will look forward to hearing about your 1st towing report. We were lucky when we bought our Infiniti. Mr. T had it hooked up and towing in a very short time. The modern V6's have so much power. I still get giddy thinking of the first drive with the Airstream in tow.

I am going to try to have it ready for our Christmas trip to Death Valley. But, finding really good hitch guys is not easy.

My wife is still highly skeptical. "That thing can tow our trailer?" I do feel a bit like I have stepped out on a limb. I just hope I don't hear the sound of a chain saw behind me!

I pick it up this morning and begin the search for a hitch setup. Which model of Infinity do you have? In 1991 I owned a Q45 and really like it a lot. The wife (not this one) rear ended a Buick on the freeway, and totaled the Buick. Crumpled it up. The Q45 did not have a scratch - not kidding. The insurance guy couldn't believe it zero damage to car or wife!

[Chuck]

I just can't believe that I'd have enough room for all my crap stuff in such a vehicle. My particular trailer has no externally accessible storage for all those dirty hoses, cords, etc, so everything needs to go in the tv. not to mention patio chairs, bikes, a grill, and so forth.
Another issue I have is a long, long driveway that I need to snow-plow in the winter. So I've always been "stuck" on the idea of a 4wd truck of some sort...need a vehicle that can be a mom-mobile, pull the trailer, and plow the driveway--limiting.
W has decreed that the next vehicle shall not be a pick-em-up. She hates being stuck with the present beast (we have an efficient commuter-car, too, but I'm the one that commutes. so I take the high mpg car to work; she is stuck w/ the pig).
I finally decided to think a little more outside the box, and go with a 2-vehicle solution: bought an old (but very serviceable) jeep wrangler to plow the driveway. (this is actually my "fantasy" plow vehicle--super-maneuverable, which was a big complaint I had w/ my loooong wheelbase pickup.). Even with the added costs of a 3rd vehicle, this is still going to be a cheaper solution than a full sized suv.
We haven't decided exactly what the next tug will be, but right now, its looking like we're going to go mini-van.

[mstephens]

Originally Posted by m.hony

I just sold my EazLift...

Because you didn't like it? Or? Tell me about it! I am only considering it because of the round bars.

[SteveH]

mstephens, Just wondering here.....did you test drive the Chrysler with 8 people in it to see how it rode, handled, and stopped?

That would be the equivalent load to the tongue weight or your trailer, plus the hitch, plus you and your wife, and not even considering towing the trailer.

[SteveH]

2012 Chrysler 300 S

Weights and Capacities

MAXIMUM TOWING CAPACITY** 1000 lbs. EPA INTERIOR VOLUME 122.6 cu.ft. GROSS WEIGHT 5100 lbs. DRAG COEFFICIENT 0.32 Cd CURB WEIGHT 3999 lbs. CARGO CAPACITY, ALL SEATS IN PLACE 16.3 cu.ft. ** When adequately equipped, which may require engine and/or other drivetrain upgrades.

DriveTrain

DRIVE TYPE Rear wheel drive TRANSMISSION 8-speed shiftable automatic
Engine & Performance

BASE ENGINE SIZE 3.6 L CAM TYPE Double overhead cam (DOHC) CYLINDERS V6 VALVES 24 VALVE TIMING Variable TORQUE 260 ft-lbs. @ 4800 rpm HORSEPOWER 292 hp @ 6350 rpm TURNING CIRCLE 38.9 ft




Let's see here....3999 curb weight + tongue weight of 850 + hitch weight 100 + 2 passengers (@ 150lbs) 300 = 5250, or 150 pounds over gross weight before adding fuel and a screw driver, and a pair of pliers.

Good luck, and I hope it works out for you.

[Garfield]

Congrats mstephens! Sounds like you picked out a sweet TV. Finding a good hitch shop isn't easy. Hopefully Andy T. can provide some guidance for whomever you end up using. You might ask if he'd consider shipping you the custom parts needed to help take the guess work out of it.

[dkottum]

Minus 300 pounds weight distribution to Airstream.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Minus 300 pounds weight distribution to Airstream.

Maybe 250 best case. Would still be way to close for my comfort.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by mstephens

I pick it up this morning and begin the search for a hitch setup. Which model of Infinity do you have? In 1991 I owned a Q45 and really like it a lot. The wife (not this one) rear ended a Buick on the freeway, and totaled the Buick. Crumpled it up. The Q45 did not have a scratch - not kidding. The insurance guy couldn't believe it zero damage to car or wife!

We are using a G35 sedan shown here (post 60) http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-105356-5.html

Also at the same link (post #71) there is a Q45 towing an Airstream.

Note our 1993 Nissan mini van had the same tranny Nissan put in the Q45's. It towed for 1,000's of klm's and was problem free at 465,000klms.

[mstephens]

Steve H,

No, I didn't put 8-people in the car and drive it around. Did you read the whole thread? Let me review briefly, just to cut to the chase. There are two ways of selecting a TV. One is by authority, the other is by empirical - e.g. experimental means.

In the authority method, you read the numbers published by the manufacturer (authority), do a little arithmetic, and then choose the vehicle meeting the computation. That's how people end up with a 3/4T diesel truck for towing a 25-foot Airstream. We could also call that the classical method. Everyone here understand that method.

In the empirical method - which could also be called the "scientific method" you analyze, hypothesize, experiment and then observe the results. You find a vehicle that has attributes you want, you try some different arrangements and then you observe how it all works out. In this case, someone has done all of the above using the Chrysler 300, and has dozens or maybe hundreds of people applying this knowledge.

In the empirical method, we can discount all the discussion of why this car or that car has this or that rating. Because, in fact, we are going to test it directly. That rules out all the possible guesswork on why it was rated. Maybe for economics, maybe for marketing, maybe this, maybe that. It doesn't matter if you are going to directly test it.

Now, I didn't do this testing. I am relying on the reports and experience of other testers of whom I have placed some trust and credibility. If there's a place to criticize me, that may be the place. It surely could be said I am too trusting of these other people. I can live with that. If it comes out that they were lying, misinformed, or wrong, then it's on me for trusting them.

Aside from trusting their testing, I did my own analysis on paper to see if the idea made sense. Since I have 20,000 miles towing experience with my current rig, I have some idea of how that rig works. My Suburban is 130" wheelbase, 5400 pounds curb and 320 horsepower with a 4-speed. The new setup is 120" wheelbase, 4000 pounds curb, 300 horsepower and 8 speed. So power to weight ratio is favorable and the power application through transmission is favorable and the wheelbase and overhang are favorable. Good start. The Suburban is 77" high with a 68" track - very tall with a high center of gravity. The new rig is 58" high with a track of 63" and features a very low center of gravity. I have not the slightest doubt that the new rig will out handle the Suburban by a substantial margin in any emergency maneuver. The Suburban is a live axle, the new rig is independent rear suspension. The new rig has 4-wheel discs, as does the Suburban. The new rig has more aggressive tires than the Suburban.

What remains is an area we can speculate about - the axle strength and associated strength of other components. Will the axles break? Will the wheels fall off? Will the springs break? I have two answers. My first, is that I somewhat trust the reports of ACTUAL DIRECT EXPERIENCE by Andy T. who has been in the RV business 30 years and has configured hundreds of tow vehicles. Secondly, I trust my personal intuition about the 30 or 40 cars and trucks I have owned in the last 40 years. I have done all sorts of things from racing to loading trucks and never experienced a broken axle or spring. My own belief is that cars and trucks carry an enormous safety margin in all engineering aspects.

In the end, I have to ask, what is the upside, for which I am taking this risk to achieve?

• Safer towing with vastly improved maneuverability
• Improved tow driving comfort
• Improved towing economy in better MPG
• Vastly improved non-towing mileage over my Suburban
• Fun

I am a pretty cautious guy. If I get it rigged and it doesn't work, I will be the most critical observer, and I will be an outspoken experimenter.

So, I don't mind disagreement - I welcome it. But let's not compare this method to the "authority" method. We all know that one thoroughly. I have chosen purposely to set the authority method aside. I welcome all disagreement then based on the EMPIRICAL method being used.

[mstephens]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

We are using a G35 sedan shown here (post 60) http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-105356-5.html

Also at the same link (post #71) there is a Q45 towing an Airstream.

Note our 1993 Nissan mini van had the same tranny Nissan put in the Q45's. It towed for 1,000's of klm's and was problem free at 465,000klms.

Oh that's nice! How many miles have you towed with the G35?

[mstephens]

"Canadian Low Riders"

I really loved that expression Steve H. I just read it in Road Ruler's link. Cool.

Ok, I wanted to add one more thing. I haven't sold the Suburban yet, and it is looking like I will have both TVs for a period of overlap. So, if it turns out the Chrysler doesn't cut the mustard, I can bail out of it and just keep driving the Suburban. I would be out a few grand, but it won't be the end of the world.