F250 diesel vs. F150 gas tow comparison

[pappy19]

Costco gas $3.59
Diesel @ gas stations $3.99

San Antonio area

[ElCamino Man]

Im not gonna start start an argument or be involved with one, but im gonan put this to rest as best I can. All statements are being made about NEW vehicles.

If you want good mpgs while towing, both gas and diesels get nearly the same towing. If you want the ground pounding torque to merge into traffic effectively, its hard to beat the 700 ft lbs that Super Duty is cranking out, even though the EcoBoost is making 420, the best in its class. Gas trucks offer nothing in terms of exhaust/engine braking, but the diesels do. A simple intake, exhaust, and chip will put the diesel at over 20 mpg and give you more than enough power to hook onto a mobile home and use it as a camper (not really... dont do that). Same can be said with the gasser although gains are far less. With a diesel, remove all the smog bull spit and gains go through the roof again. By this point youve got a couple grand more dumped into an already $45,000+ truck, where a gasser F-150 starts at about $30,000 for an XLT 4wd. The diesel should get a couple mpg more than the gasser, but if they get the same then theres the gas vs diesel cost comparison. Diesel RARELY costs the same as gas here in the states. Its usually $.30 more, but can be anywhere from cheaper than gas, to $.50 more. Right now in my town gas is $3.85 and diesel is $3.98 or $3.99. I dont remember. Then maintenance... If you change both gas and diesel oils at 5000 miles, the gasser is far cheaper. Gas uses about 1.5 gallon, diesels chug 3 gallons using a more expensive oil.

So there ya go: diesels cost more in the long run BUT give you power to burn and have a ton of potential if you wanna pay for it. Not to mention they run FOREVER.

Gassers are less expensive, offer similar mpgs towing, better unhitched, and costs of ownership is less.

[pappy19]

I hate to tell you but diesels don't run forever. The folks that sell um and buy um tell you that, but in reality, they on the average last about as long as a gasser. Ever heard of the Ford 6.0? Chevy injector rails? Cummins injector pumps? Turbos going kaput? $250 per oil change? Trannys going kaput from over torque? No thanks, been there done that, I'll take a good gasser any day, especially my V-10 Ford.

Pap

[NorthernWind]

OK, I've been watching this thread and seeing the information get skewed for both based on which vehicle the member has, that's good everyone should be happy with their vehicle, that justifies the purchase we all made.
As I mentioned in a earlier post, since 1978 I have purchased 12 Ford trucks (and 1 Dodge power wagon, but I'm still trying to get over that mistake) of the 12 Fords 3 have been diesel, the others gas. The diesels hands down have a huge power advantage over the gas and I have had the straight 6, 6.4, 7.3 6.0 and 10 and all the others as well each has had it's good and bad but as for power and mileage the 6.0 has been the best.
I have never had a $250 oil change? they are usually about $125 or about $80 if I do it myself. You can buy a 20 liter pail of oil at most big box stores, buy fuel filter and oil filter at Parts Source take it to Mr Lube and for $25 they will change your oil. (this is for the diesel and it's 24.5 liters of oil) I change the oil every 10,000 Klm and have put over 400,000 on each diesel, except the 2006 which only has 360,000 on it so far. I have never replaced injectors before 250,000 k and do the fuel filter every 50 k they are 25 bucks at parts source and take about 10 minutes to change.
All my gas engines have lasted well my 1999 F150 I still use for plowing in the winter and it has 565,000 k on it but they do not have the torque to pull, they have speed and power but not pulling power. I have never had transmission problems with any truck but I do change the tranny oil and filer every 100,000 k. I have never had problems with a turbo but I always let it cool by idling for a few minutes after running it hard on the highway. I had the 2001 6 liter infamous diesel which gave me problems but Ford replaced the motor and tranny at 125,000 kl and I never had another problem.

[ElCamino Man]

Originally Posted by pappy19

in reality, they on the average last about as long as a gasser. Its RARE to see a diesel die before a gasser
Ever heard of the Ford 6.0? Can be fixed
Chevy injector rails? Easy fix
Cummins injector pumps? Very easy fix
Turbos going kaput? Not the engines fault usually. Aftermarket causes this
$250 per oil change? Never heard of it. Maybe $100 per oil change
Trannys going kaput from over torque? Theyre built to handle the torque. Once again... aftermarket
Pap

Try again lol

[Steve & Mary]

I've had my years of pulling with gas engines and being limited at times of what they were capable of doing. Since we are now nearing retirement I wanted power, torque and plenty of truck to handle what ever situation I may run into. I waited several years for Ford to sort out their power stroke issues and after seeing the performance of the 2011 6.7 I decided to buy a 2012. We have owned our F-250 for six months now and are totally satisfied. I installed my bed cover last month and a new 50 gallon tank which replaced the factory one. The truck is pretty much exactly what I need now. I'm not going to bash the gas engines. They have been good to me for many years. I agree oil changes will be higher on my diesel but I change my on oil and I think I can live with the added cost. We just love the 400 hp and 800 ft. lbs of torque. It is a monster. Don't have anything against the Dodge or Chevy. I've just always have been a Ford man..... steve

[mgriffrus]

I haven't messed with a gas truck, but I did have a 2007 Yukon XL ($26,000 w/75,000 miles in June 2010) and traded it in for a 2008 ($29,000 w/64,000 miles in July 2011) Ram 2500 Megacab 4x4. Here are my results.

Yukon XL had the 5.3 gas engine, half ton chassis, auto tranny and I'm not sure about the rear end ratio. I had a Coleman pop up camper and got about 13 mpg pulling the camper and 20 - 22 empty. Oil changes around between $30 to $50 depending on where and when. I also rented a 27' SOB with slide (7500 lb rated trailer) and drug it a couple hundred miles and got almost 8 mpg. I also almost had a heart attack because of temps/engine rpms/braking under load being so horrible in my experience. It was so bad pulling anything besides the pop up we decided to get rid of it.

Ram with 6.7 Cummins, 6 sp auto, not sure about the rear end ratio and all the smog EPA filter crap still factory on the truck. I pulled a 27' no slide SOB (borrowed from a friend) last year 1600 miles around Texas at 67-70 on interstate -when I remembered the cruise control- and averaged just under 12 mpg. For the sake of arguments we'll say gas was $3.30 and diesel was $3.75. I honestly don't remember and don't really care, it's part of the cost and won't equal restaurants and hotels and sure gives you a whole lot better vacation when you drag your vacation home with you.

So... Gas with pop-up = $.25/ mile x 1600 miles = $400 fuel
Gas with 27'w/slide SOB = $.41/mile x 1600 miles = $660 fuel
Cummins and 27' no slide = $.34/mile (went ahead and rounded down to 11mpg) x 1600 miles = $544 fuel

I'll throw out the gas w/27' SOB because it was only a one trip, even though my results equal my friends results who pulled his 27' no slide SOB (the same one I borrowed) with his Ford Expedition.


For an extra $150 in fuel I was able to pull a much better trailer, not worry about setting up and tearing down a pop up, not worry about traffic/merging/braking/temps. There are plenty of people who will pull anything with anything they can find, as long as they have the right w/d hitch and a trailer brake controller. I personally wouldn't go with anything less than a 3/4 ton truck, but that's just me.

I also pull a 14' cargo trailer filled with tools with a 2008 one ton ford van for work and get 7 mpg....Some may argue that's apples and oranges.

We now have a 1974 Ambassador and are averaging 13 mpg (interstate and two lane roads) but haven't gone on any extended trips to compare with.

Maintenance is a little more expensive, however in my town I can get the oil change and service at the dealer the cheapest at $85.

So the fuel cost in my scenario is actually less and maintenance cost in my opinion are negligible when taken into account the peace of mind and personal towing experience.

I haven't messed with these Ford Ecoboost many people are raving about, but then again there's the physics of a half ton truck vs a 3/4 ton truck. Why push it when you don't have to?

I should also disclose that I also use the truck for other things besides pulling a camper, routinely pull equipment trailers and goose necks with tractors on them, so it's a well-rounded vehicle for what I need it for. Maybe when I am retired and traveling full time I'll have a different angle to look at this, but for right now it boils down for me to "Why haven't I done this sooner!"

Your mileage may vary.

[ElCamino Man]

Originally Posted by mgriffrus

Your mileage may vary.

Gotta throw that disclaimer in there lol

[Bill M.]

"Again, if a person wants a diesel, then go buy one,"

I did, and 5 years and 108000 miles later I ain't sorry yet.

[xrvr]

I can carry two scooters at 550 pounds total, a generator, misc chairs etc and still not come close to my weight limit. Oh and it does not affect my towing mileage when loaded. Try that with your half ton toy truck.lol. Jim

[slowmover]

Gee, how did those poor old folks make it across Africa or Europe back thar in them stone ages with them little tin cans. . . . ?

The thread started as a "comparison" of two different TV's. A weight comparison would have helped in number crunching. Subjective is only worthwhile once objective has been dispensed with as there is otherwise no way of making a comparison.

Past that is an argument about how much extra junk aboard . . which has nothing to do with towing performance, per se.

Someday we'll just have to have a shoot-out.

.

[xrvr]

Nothing subjective about payload capacity and it's effect on towing. Jim

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Nothing subjective about payload capacity and it's effect on towing. Jim

Subjective is "I carry x and y in the back and never have a problem while towing trailer z" or "that was bad but I have no idea what the rear axle ratio was."

[mgriffrus]

For that I apologize.

Seems I missed the point of the thread anyway, I don't even have a Ford. I read some posts and went with a gas vs diesel comparison and decided to jump in with my misguided results.

My bad, sorry about that.

[xrvr]

Yet when I compare mileage figures with a full payload verses a light payload and the figure does not change , that is not subjective. It is a fact. Jim

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Yet when I compare mileage figures with a full payload verses a light payload and the figure does not change , that is not subjective. It is a fact. Jim

All we need do is change the number of acceleration and braking events to show up the differences between loaded and empty. Or, their severity (or both). I agree that for steady-state driving that the CTD (which we both have) is relatively weight insensitive.

[xrvr]

Thank you, jim

[pappy19]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

"Again, if a person wants a diesel, then go buy one,"

I did, and 5 years and 108000 miles later I ain't sorry yet.

Yes, and I bought a gasser, a Ford F-250 2008 V-10, and after 112,xxx miles, it's running as good as any diesel for alot less money, even with my 8.5 mpg towing my AS and 10.3 solo. Oh yeah, my oil changes are $19.95 and fuel filter is $9.95, that's about it.

Pap

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Moflash

Regular $3.74

Diesel $3.94

Bargains

Originally Posted by pappy19

Costco gas $3.59
Diesel @ gas stations $3.99

San Antonio area

Gas is $3.74
Diesel is $4.09

[ElCamino Man]

Are you guys taking into account the mpg savings and not just gas prices?

The following are my hometown gas prices
30 gallons of gas @ $3.85: $115.50
30 gallons of diesel @ $3.98: $119.40
30 gallons of diesel @ $4.09: $122.70

Seeing as gassers get around 10 mpg towing, give or take depending on truck and trailer, and iv never heard of a diesel getting less than 12 towing an AS... Makes that $7 a tank extra for diesel seem a whole lot more worth it IMO.

On the other hand, your gonna pay roughly $4000 extra for that diesel engine initially.

Gasser getting 10 mpg w/ 30 gallon tank: 300 miles per tank
Diesel getting 12 mpg w/ 30 gallon tank: 360 miles per tank
Break it down with some complicated math... Itll take 213 fill-ups to pay off a diesel engine @ 2 mpg better. Which means, if you own a diesel for longer than 77,000 miles, its paid for itself, and I even included the extra $100 MORE per oil change. which is being a bit radical since diesel oil changes cost about $90 and gassers cost about $30.

And thats at ONLY 2 mpg difference towing. My gas 460 gets 12 mpg unloaded and its 7.3 Power Stroke counterpart gets 18 or better unloaded.

I dont guess itd be wroth it... if you traded before 75,000 miles, and thats still being VERY lenient. Youd have to ONLY use your TV to tow and use Royal Purple engine oil lol