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Old 07-07-2017, 09:19 AM   #1
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F150 Lariat 2.7 Ecoboost and 23' Flying Cloud FB

Any advice would be greatly appreciated... recently purchased a new 2016 Ford F150 2.7 Ecoboost Lariat with standard tow package. The majority of the time would be 2 average sized adults using the camper. The yellow sticker says combined weight of occupants/cargo shouldn't exceed 1443 pounds. The other sticker says GVWR is 6,500 pds. The tongue weight is 550 pds.

Would this truck be able to tow a 23' FB Flying Cloud? Or is it getting into the danger zone. Specs are:
Unit weight w/LP and Batteries: 4,806
GVWR: 6,000
Net carrying capacity: 1,194
Hitch weight: 457


Or would the 22' FB Sport be a better option:
Unit weight w/LP and Batteries: 3,634
GVWR: 4,500
Net carrying capacity: 866
Hitch weight: 393

I do prefer the Flying Cloud but don't want to overtax the truck. Wasn't sure if there were any mods that could be made to make towing the Flying Cloud work.

Many thanks for your input!
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:10 AM   #2
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Meant to add the truck has tow package and 3.55 gearing.
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:20 AM   #3
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You'll likely be told sometime soon that you're courting disaster by not having an F450, but I think the 2.7 should handle either of the trailers you're talking about, and I think the bigger window opening and other nice features of the Flying Cloud line are worth it. The only real issue I have with the Sports is the very small portion of the window area that actually opens.

I suspect that if you dig into the documentation, the 550-lb tongue weight limit is for towing without a weight-distributing hitch, and having a '17 F150 myself, I'd recommend a weight-distributing hitch even though you're just under the limit. Between cargo you may load in the front of the trailer, cargo you may load in the box and the sway control you can gain with a midrange or better WD setup (Blue Ox, Reese Dual Cam, Equal-I-zer, etc) I think you'll have a much better towing experience with a good WD hitch.

Since you don't seem to have the extra payload package, you probably have similar non-LT tires to the ones I have. My trailer is quite a bit heavier than either of the ones you're looking at, and I feel like the truck tires are a bit softer than I'd like but they do better at the sidwall max pressure than at the standard recommended inflation, so I'll wear some tread off them before I upgrade to LTs. With the lighter trailer you may never notice the softer sidewalls though.
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:23 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Bar01 View Post
Any advice would be greatly appreciated... recently purchased a new 2016 Ford F150 2.7 Ecoboost Lariat with standard tow package. The majority of the time would be 2 average sized adults using the camper. The yellow sticker says combined weight of occupants/cargo shouldn't exceed 1443 pounds. The other sticker says GVWR is 6,500 pds. The tongue weight is 550 pds.

Would this truck be able to tow a 23' FB Flying Cloud? Or is it getting into the danger zone. Specs are:
Unit weight w/LP and Batteries: 4,806
GVWR: 6,000
Net carrying capacity: 1,194
Hitch weight: 457


Or would the 22' FB Sport be a better option:
Unit weight w/LP and Batteries: 3,634
GVWR: 4,500
Net carrying capacity: 866
Hitch weight: 393

I do prefer the Flying Cloud but don't want to overtax the truck. Wasn't sure if there were any mods that could be made to make towing the Flying Cloud work.

Many thanks for your input!
Hi

The difference in hitch weight is 64 lb. That's all the bigger trailer will take away from the "payload" numbers you are looking at. Put the beer and cooler in the trailer rather than in the truck bed and you'll be fine.

The "towing capacity" of the F-150 with 2.7 is something like 8,500 lb. That should be adequate for either trailer.

Indeed there is a bit more to it all than this, bottom line is still the same - go for the 23' FC .... or maybe the 25' ...hmmmm.....(yes, it adds a little more at the tongue)

Bob
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:53 AM   #5
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Go for the 22'.
The 23' trailer will exceed the tongue weight capacity of the truck.
Or trade the truck right back in on a 3.5...
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:12 AM   #6
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Go for the 22'.
The 23' trailer will exceed the tongue weight capacity of the truck.
Or trade the truck right back in on a 3.5...
No, this is false.

The quoted 550-lb tongue weight is for non-weight-distributing hitches (Ford actually says 500 in the towing guide.) 2016 F150 with a factory receiver hitch is 1220 lb for weight-distributing hitches.

2016 Ford towing guide.
Bottom of page 4.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:16 AM   #7
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No matter which rig you choose consider a WD hitch. We use the Blue Ox with our F150 3.5 Ecoboost and the 23FB and it tows great and sits level...you hardly know it's there ��. We will be using the same TV and rig for the new 26 U we are picking up next week!
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:26 AM   #8
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FWIW, our 2012 F150 3.5L Ecoboost with max tow pulls our 2014 25' FC with absolutely no problems through the Colorado Rockies.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:36 AM   #9
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It is possible to hold the tongue weight of the 23 at around 600#s. To stay at 550#s will require running quite light. That requires no fresh water, no storage under bed, leave spare at home, or use of only one tank of LPG. It also requires staying at below 5500#s gross on the coach to stay at a 10% tongue weight for stability.

I would find out what was needed to increase the tongue weight (upgrade hitch, tires, brake pads, rear suspension air bags or ?). If you just need to run a WDH to increase the tongue weight, there are several that will do the job. The Blue Ox Sway Pro is an excellent design as it uses spring force and not friction to control sway. Consider the 750# bars.

If you are happy with the 22 Sport, go for it. There are several threads that compare the 22 and 23. Worth spending time with those discussions. The 22 can be a very nice coach if it works for you. However it is a mistake to buy small and trade up later. Figure out what you want/need and make it happen.

Standard disclaimer applies - do not believe anything someone tells you until you validate the information yourself. RV towing is a full time participant sport and you need to be informed to do it safely.

Good luck with your analysis. Pat
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:39 AM   #10
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The payload and GVWR numbers you posted are useful when hauling and not towing with a weight distribution hitch. Ridiculous when towing with a quality, properly set up weight distribution hitch. But what can the mfg do, they must post a single number so they post something generic that supposedly covers both towing and hauling. Quite different conditions.

The individual axle ratings GAWR are on the door placard and are a better indicator of what the truck can carry when using a weight distribution hitch. Hitched and ready to travel, it is a good idea to take your combination through a CAT scale to verify your truck and trailer axle loads are within the placard GAWR for each.

Based on our experience extensively towing 20' and 25' Airstreams, your F150 will do very well with the 23' and nearly as well with a 25'. Satisfaction will be determined by the quality of your weight distribution setup and your expectations of performance. There is also a great deal of satisfaction in using the tow vehicle you already have, unless you're rich.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKI View Post
It is possible to hold the tongue weight of the 23 at around 600#s. To stay at 550#s will require running quite light. That requires no fresh water, no storage under bed, leave spare at home, or use of only one tank of LPG. It also requires staying at below 5500#s gross on the coach to stay at a 10% tongue weight for stability.

I would find out what was needed to increase the tongue weight (upgrade hitch, tires, brake pads, rear suspension air bags or ?). If you just need to run a WDH to increase the tongue weight, there are several that will do the job. The Blue Ox Sway Pro is an excellent design as it uses spring force and not friction to control sway. Consider the 750# bars.

If you are happy with the 22 Sport, go for it. There are several threads that compare the 22 and 23. Worth spending time with those discussions. The 22 can be a very nice coach if it works for you. However it is a mistake to buy small and trade up later. Figure out what you want/need and make it happen.

Standard disclaimer applies - do not believe anything someone tells you until you validate the information yourself. RV towing is a full time participant sport and you need to be informed to do it safely.

Good luck with your analysis. Pat
Nothing but a WD hitch is required. The 2016 F150 with a hitch receiver is rated for 1220 lb tongue weight with weight distribution.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:49 AM   #12
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. . . The Blue Ox Sway Pro is an excellent design as it uses spring force and not friction to control sway. Consider the 750# bars.
Pat, I have wondered about the Blue Ox Sway Pro's ability to transfer as much weight as their bar rating indicates. They have very flexible spring bars, but isn't some of the tension applied held in the spring bars and not transferred to the truck's front axle? In other words, can the BO 750 lb bars actually apply 750 lbs lift to the tow vehicle receiver? Or if you needed 750 lbs of lift, would you need larger rated spring bars?

I have used an Equal-I-Zer hitch, and the transfer of weight was direct and immediate to the tension applied. However the extremely rigid spring (w.d.) bars gave quite a rough ride to the combination.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:50 AM   #13
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Hi

Why would you buy a nice new AS and *not* get some sort of WD hitch? It's not like they cost a fortune compared to an AS or even compared to the cost of trading in a perfectly fine truck. Despite all the yack you don't *have* to buy a Hensley.....There are a lot of sub $1K (including installation) options. Many of them are pretty darn easy to use.

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Old 07-07-2017, 12:06 PM   #14
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Pat, I have wondered about the Blue Ox Sway Pro's ability to transfer as much weight as their bar rating indicates. They have very flexible spring bars, but isn't some of the tension applied held in the spring bars and not transferred to the truck's front axle? In other words, can the BO 750 lb bars actually apply 750 lbs lift to the tow vehicle receiver? Or if you needed 750 lbs of lift, would you need larger rated spring bars?

I have used an Equal-I-Zer hitch, and the transfer of weight was direct and immediate to the tension applied. However the extremely rigid spring (w.d.) bars gave quite a rough ride to the combination.
The way Blue Ox customer support personnel describe it, the bar rating should relate to your tongue weight, not the amount of weight you'll actually be transferring, and it's an "up to" thing. So, my trailer's actual tongue weight full of propane and fresh water is about 950 lb... over 750 lb but less than 1000 lb, so Blue Ox recommends the 1000-lb rated bars. Running those bars with the 10th link from the loose end of the chain in the notch on the rotating brackets gets me a level rig, within a few pounds of 100% of the original weight on my steering axle and good behavior driving down the road.
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Old 07-07-2017, 12:25 PM   #15
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We "only" have a 19' International but our F150 with a 2.7 (and similar configuration) tows it nicely. This includes a fair amount of Cascade and Rocky Mountain travel. I also think the Blue Ox system works well, though others may be just as effective.
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:08 PM   #16
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-- snip --isn't some of the tension applied held in the spring bars and not transferred to the truck's front axle? -- snip --
DK - It is not logical that tension applied is held in the spring bars and not transferred. It is logical that there is additional spring force available to restrict lateral movement of the coach. Note, that the head tilt in the BOSP reduces force on one side as it adds force on the other in a turn or sway event. Consequently, the available force must be at least slightly more than the force used to transfer weight. Suspect the spring bar rating is relative as opposed to a literal measurement of available force. Pat
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:29 PM   #17
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For a data point... on that 10th link, my "1000-lb" bars transfer 540 lb off the drive axle, with 140 lb going to the trailer axles and 380 lb back to the steer axle. It returns the steer axle to within 20 lb of the unladen weight, or 99.38% of unladen. I can live with that. It felt a little too "loose" in certain conditions on the 9th link, but it's more settled on the 10th link with 51 psi (sidewall max) on the stock rear XL tires.
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:43 PM   #18
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DK - It is not logical that tension applied is held in the spring bars and not transferred.
It seems to me some of the energy applied to lifting the spring bars goes into the bending of the bars, and some goes to transferring weight. So the flexing bars store some of this energy. I referenced our Equal-I-Zer bars which have almost no flexibility, so little energy is stored in the bars.

With any w.d. hitch spring bar, there is only so much distance to travel vertically. If we use some of that distance to flex the bars (and in some vehicles there is also flexibility in the receiver and truck frame which must be overcome with weight transfer), we simply cannot get enough weight transfer of trailer hitch weight and equipment loads in the back of the tow vehicle?

This is something we have noticed with various hitches and vehicles, so I am bringing it up as a question and point of discussion.

I like the idea of using hitch head tilt to resist and correct some trailer lateral movement. I also wonder why not do the same thing with a less expensive, basic w.d. hitch such as an Eaze-Lift? The difference seems to be the energy that can be stored in the Blue Ox spring bars, which also seems to reduce the ability of the BOSP to transfer weight?
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Old 07-07-2017, 04:03 PM   #19
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It seems to me some of the energy applied to lifting the spring bars goes into the bending of the bars, and some goes to transferring weight. So the flexing bars store some of this energy. I referenced our Equal-I-Zer bars which have almost no flexibility, so little energy is stored in the bars.

With any w.d. hitch spring bar, there is only so much distance to travel vertically. If we use some of that distance to flex the bars (and in some vehicles there is also flexibility in the receiver and truck frame which must be overcome with weight transfer), we simply cannot get enough weight transfer of trailer hitch weight and equipment loads in the back of the tow vehicle?

This is something we have noticed with various hitches and vehicles, so I am bringing it up as a question and point of discussion.

I like the idea of using hitch head tilt to resist and correct some trailer lateral movement. I also wonder why not do the same thing with a less expensive, basic w.d. hitch such as an Eaze-Lift? The difference seems to be the energy that can be stored in the Blue Ox spring bars, which also seems to reduce the ability of the BOSP to transfer weight?
I suspect that if you want to compensate for (for example) 500 lb of stuff you carry in the back of the tow vehicle and you have (for example) a 950-lb tongue weight, you'd buy the 1500-lb bars instead of the 1000-lb ones. If you just ask Blue Ox for a recommendation, they're going to base it on what you report as your tongue weight.
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Old 07-07-2017, 04:45 PM   #20
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It seems to me some of the energy applied to lifting the spring bars goes into the bending of the bars, and some goes to transferring weight. So the flexing bars store some of this energy. -- snip -- energy that can be stored in the Blue Ox spring bars, which also seems to reduce the ability of the BOSP to transfer weight?
DK - the force that bends the spring bar is the same force that transfers the weight. The spring bar stores all of the energy used to deflect it. There is not one force that bends the spring and another force that transfers the weight. It is that physics thing at work. It's the same mechanism as the lever action of other WD designs. The lever is just more flexible with the BOSP. There is a parameter - spring rate. As a spring is deflected the force required increases with the spring rate - x lbs of force per increment of deflection. When you run out of deflection, you are at the capacity of the spring and need to move to the next larger bar. Pat
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