EV tow vehicle

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Golden Ears

@ gypsydad, just as you argue when you want people with actual experience to speak about things. Here’s my actual experience. I was stuck in the winter in my car with about 75% charge- there was a multi car accident as a truck had tipped over and the trailer contents were blocking the road.

I keep a Kingsong 16x in the car so I hopped on that , tossed on my snowboard clothes and went about 4 miles up the road to the wreck and came back. My Kingsong is a personal EV that goes about 30 mph with about 70+ miles if range and typically fits in my passenger foot well. It is easy to learn to ride this bicycle as this is self balancing and doesn’t require the coordination of steering and peddling at the same time. I charge it off my car battery.

I’m no spring chicken I’m almost 60 and it was just like skiing down 6 ski runs in a row in the cold.

. The gas vehicle people had to run their cars intermittently because we didn’t know how long we would be there with the road closure on I 70. If they run their cars continuously they’ll be out of gas somewhere between three and six hours.

I put my car into “camp mode”, crawled into the back onto my 4 inch thick Exped Meganmat Duo mattress 52’ x 77.75”. And crawled under the sheets with my GF . and we slept for 6 hours. When we woke up to the sounds of service crews we were well rested and had used 5% of our battery keeping the interior at 75 degrees in 15 degree weather. We had pulled off the road not to be in anyones fume path and have a Carbon monoxide detector in the car anyhow.

We woke up and watched a few things on Netflix, and got some food out of my Dometic CFX3-35 fridge freezer that I keep in the back trunk well under the mattress. I pulled out some burgers that I cooked up with my camp chef Everest that I keep in the trunk .

It sure would have been nice to have an airstream to take a shower in and have food prep area and a real sink instead of just jug water. But had we been in my girlfriends Subaru or her brothers Ford Raptor life would have been absolutely miserable.

Or if the accident happened when we were close to our next charging stop and had less than 10% charge we might have run down to 5% and have to,use the built in 30 or so reserve to get to a charger. If we had been stuck for say 2 days with 25% charge we still wouldn’t freeze to death like people in ICE cars .

In an airstream , you would just walk to the back and turn on your propane and generator.

But sometimes, you are in your car detached from your airstream and you could get stuck like this in an ICE car iced over after 6 hours.

Wow! Hope you have film of all that; many of us are still evaluating if we can balance on a Kingsong..at 71! Sounds like all you need is a portapotty and your set; who needs an AS, right? LOL

Actually, learned a lot of new things from your experience and resourcefulness...still, would have been a great post to see all these in action via video! I remember when I lived in LA area when the Grape Vine would shut down for same reasons; longest I remember was 6 hours due to snow and fog, but that was many years back...before Kingsong's and EV's! Again, thanks for sharing!

I still am wondering how the infrastructure for charging multiple EV's, towing TT's will be efficiently designed accommodate? I am sure someone is working on this; would love to see plans.

[Dennis C]

Glad to see some discussion of small, personal EVs for assorted uses. My wife and I have two Segway electric kick scooters that we take camping sometimes. They fold down to a relatively compact size, they're lightweight, they charge in a few hours on a standard 120V outlet They have a ~40 mile range on a full charge. They're not good off-road, but for campsites that are a few miles outside of town with a bike path or sidewalk, they're awesome.

[PB_NB]

Recently, I have been looking at Bluetti who is a manufacturer of portable power solutions and they have launched one of their new products that offers a few miles of charge for EV’s sort of like a gas can of electricity. These units are designed to provide portable power for all sorts of AC devices. They are solar charged when away from an AC outlet.

Adding the extra charge to get you down the street is a great option.

With my BMW EV, I could sit in it with the seat heaters running for weeks, the HVAC system draws about 1kWH so I would have enough juice to run the heater for 24 hours at full blast.

Mine is a bit older so the battery is a smaller than the newer ones.

When we got the BMW, we also got the little 34hp backup generator which consumes about 2 gallons of premium every 6 months as we rarely use it (this also doubles our range) so we have that if we can’t find a charging station. I know that the goal would be to run 100% of the time with electric but this little generator makes using an EV stress free for us.

This EV is one of our service vehicles which gets used every day. We have a charging station at our office so we never need to use the outside charging network.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

....I still am wondering how the infrastructure for charging multiple EV's, towing TT's will be efficiently designed accommodate? I am sure someone is working on this; would love to see plans.

Lots of progress. Drive through chargers. Chargers spaced out from the rear of the parking stall so that operators can nose in. Physical layout is not a significant issue, it can be addressed. They are building charging stations rapidly, so new designs can be incorporated.

One issue to solve is the peak demand. Local utilities may have sufficient power, but struggle with the peaks. Everyone wants to cook dinner at the same time. Some insights into this came from the most recent Megacharger installations, going in now for the first Tesla Semi fleets (Pepsi/Frito Lay). Tesla has installed Megapacks (very large utility grade batteries) along with the chargers. They also reportedly increased the Megacharger charging rates from 1 mW to 1.5 mW (Current Superchargers peak at 250 kW). The batteries will handle peak loads.

https://driveteslacanada.ca/semi/tes...mi-deliveries/

More info on the latest Megapack installation in Texas, designed for power grid stabilization, here. Some discussion above of snowstorms, so this installation, which was driven by the Texas winter grid collapse, seems appropriate. Tesla has an advantage in terms of designing and producing BEVs, building out a charging network, and being in the utility power business.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-angl...-preparations/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybkbfoVYIh8

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by jcl

Lots of progress. Drive through chargers. Chargers spaced out from the rear of the parking stall so that operators can nose in. Physical layout is not a significant issue, it can be addressed. They are building charging stations rapidly, so new designs can be incorporated.

One issue to solve is the peak demand. Local utilities may have sufficient power, but struggle with the peaks. Everyone wants to cook dinner at the same time. Some insights into this came from the most recent Megacharger installations, going in now for the first Tesla Semi fleets (Pepsi/Frito Lay). Tesla has installed Megapacks (very large utility grade batteries) along with the chargers. They also reportedly increased the Megacharger charging rates from 1 mW to 1.5 mW (Current Superchargers peak at 250 kW). The batteries will handle peak loads.

https://driveteslacanada.ca/semi/tes...mi-deliveries/

More info on the latest Megapack installation in Texas, designed for power grid stabilization, here. Some discussion above of snowstorms, so this installation, which was driven by the Texas winter grid collapse, seems appropriate. Tesla has an advantage in terms of designing and producing BEVs, building out a charging network, and being in the utility power business.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-angl...-preparations/

Yes, they are moving HQ to TX also; The new giga factory is just down the road...close to Circuit of the Americas, outside Austin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eWyH1hH2E0&t=234s

My question though is how are these charging stations going to be efficient for folks like us who are towing a TT? I understand it can be done; just don't see the practicality nor convenience to the folks who want an EV, tow a TT, and will have to wait an hour or so to recharge. Other concerns surely are the campgrounds...already there are discussions about EV's using electric to charge beyond a standard TT or RV's consumption. Not saying it ain't happening...just don't see it being an easy transition anytime soon.

[Golden Ears]

@gypsydad

I figured it out, but unfortunately I can’t share it.

Let’s just say , if you gave me a F-350 and a free gas card free oil
Changes and free repairs . I’m still better off in my Tesla model X with a TT

And it has nothing to do with towing , comfort , handling , resale value . Or even liking the car . Having this set up solves the worst problem with TT.

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by Golden Ears

And it has nothing to do with towing , comfort , handling , resale value . Or even liking the car . Having this set up solves the worst problem with TT.

And just what IS the worst problem with TT?

[Mattedfred]

For those wishing to educate themselves regarding getting stranded in an EV during a snowstorm.

https://youtu.be/02YRQyj3Hdg

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Golden Ears

@gypsydad

I figured it out, but unfortunately I can’t share it.

Let’s just say , if you gave me a F-350 and a free gas card free oil
Changes and free repairs . I’m still better off in my Tesla model X with a TT

And it has nothing to do with towing , comfort , handling , resale value . Or even liking the car . Having this set up solves the worst problem with TT.

Gee...what could the "worst problem with TT" be? Perhaps you can't boondock? Is it that the RV park manager won't allow you to "fuel" your Tesla without additional cost for charging your Tesla? Is it that you modified your Tesla to tow a 5000lb+ TT but now you have to camp alone cause your way beyond your payload specs and couldn't bring along the family and the dog? Just wondering what it could be?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Gee...what could the "worst problem with TT" be? Perhaps you can't boondock? Is it that the RV park manager won't allow you to "fuel" your Tesla without additional cost for charging your Tesla? Is it that you modified your Tesla to tow a 5000lb+ TT but now you have to camp alone cause your way beyond your payload specs and couldn't bring along the family and the dog? Just wondering what it could be?

I read that the Model X solved the "worst problem with TT", not that it created it.

I figure this Model X has free Supercharging. So no energy costs on the road.

I always thought the worst TT problem was figuring out how to respond to all the people saying "You Can't Tow With That!"

[Golden Ears]

One other irksome thing and it also
Might affect cyber truck .

Elon was Complaining to Sandy Munro of Munro and associates about the current 12 V systems within cars in the losses in such a low voltage system. He mentioned that he wanted to have a 48 V system in the cars. This dates back all the way to model S because at one point there was a concern that model X would have all of its accessory‘s and heated seats run off the 400 V traction battery pack.

Well that never happened and model S and model X share a 12 V battery pack that run all the low-voltage electronics.

However the new refresh models of model S and model X will be 16 volt accessory Powered as opposed to 12 V. The will no longer have an AGM 12 volt battery , the new accessory battery will be a 16V lithium based battery .

Does anybody know if there are any brake controller‘s that operates reliably in the 16 V range?

My hopes is that there would be an integrated brake controller in the new model S and model X and of course Cybertruck.



However I don’t see how that would work unless the umbilical that goes to it already has a step down transformer to 12 V.

[Mattedfred]

TFL finally got a Rivian R1T and has created a new channel called TFL EV.

https://youtu.be/yPyKlVU6LVI

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by Mattedfred

TFL finally got a Rivian R1T and has created a new channel called TFL EV.

https://youtu.be/yPyKlVU6LVI

That is a cool truck. I hope I’m still pulling an AS around the country when they get all the issues with charging etc worked out. (Not just the Rivian, but all EVs)

[Mattedfred]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

That is a cool truck. I hope I’m still pulling an AS around the country when they get all the issues with charging etc worked out. (Not just the Rivian, but all EVs)

I'll be all over the R1T if they actually produce their 'Max Pack' 400 mile range battery. Based on our trailering for the last 6 seasons I predict that we'd only have to charge it anywhere than our home and a campground during three trips. Easily manageable for us. Can't wait!

[Mattedfred]

The Rivian R1T just smoked a Ram TRX, then a Tesla.

https://youtu.be/mkhPNFHkBes

[gypsydad]

Anyone else see the CSPAN EV program last evening? Very interesting; similar to the discussion here...EV's foot print on the environment is actually worse than an ICE during normal lifetime use, according to several experts here who have done the research. Also, as we all know, the "grid" is not/will not be able to handle should the "mandate" to EV's become national anytime soon, without great expense and new technology. They also discuss the inconvenience of fueling up vs charging up, the time/equipment needed to adequately replace existing fuel stops is just not there, as we have been discussing here. Good news, is ICE's will be around for at least my lifetime so towing my AS without planning well around charging stations on my rout, nor adding additional day or 2 for travel/charging, will not be an issue anytime soon for me. Very enlightening for sure.

https://archive.org/details/CSPAN_20...in_Agriculture

[waninae39]

unlike the picture in Andy's document, i have not seen any EV chargers that allow you to pull aside and charge.

all the ones I've seen are back in parallel spots.
thus it looks like most times , one would have to detach the AS each time you wanted to charge up.

Royal pain (;

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Anyone else see the CSPAN EV program last evening? Very interesting; similar to the discussion here...EV's foot print on the environment is actually worse than an ICE during normal lifetime use, according to several experts here who have done the research.

Don't watch CSPAN, but have reviewed multiple studies that do not agree with your statement that lifetime environmental impact of EVs is worse than ICE vehicles. There is a lot of money being spent by legacy fossil fuel interests to defend themselves and create FUD. All "experts" are not created equal. The breakeven point will depend on where the vehicle and battery are manufactured, and how the local grid produces electricity. That said, the balance is pretty unequivocal.

The overstatement of EV environmental impacts vs ICE vehicles are pervasive enough that the EPA created a resource to debunk these myths

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/el...-vehicle-myths

Here is one article:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/life...perts-say.html

Here is another, based on Argonne Lab data: https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2021-06-29/

Here is a reviewed study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s418...r=www.cnbc.com

I agree with your statement that ICE tow vehicles will be around for your lifetime. Don't know your age, but I am in my early sixties. Let's use 30 years, although perhaps not all of it still towing. If I go back 30 years, that is 1992. There are certainly 1992 vehicles on the road today, and one could tow with one if one wanted to. It may not make sense for other than nostalgic reasons, and and parts/fuel/service may not be available, but it will most likely be possible to use a current vehicle 30 years in the future.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by waninae39

unlike the picture in Andy's document, i have not seen any EV chargers that allow you to pull aside and charge.

all the ones I've seen are back in parallel spots.
thus it looks like most times , one would have to detach the AS each time you wanted to charge up.

Royal pain (;

It can be a pain today. Not so much over time IMO. On a recent trip, not towing, we used 10 different Supercharger locations. All of them had one or two pull-by spots. One had half the stalls pull in, half reverse in, as well.
Most fast chargers installed to this point have been Superchargers. That is changing. Tesla designed their vehicles with a rear quarter panel charge port. There were few if any tow options, so to accommodate those users with a rear bike rack or similar, most Superchargers had one pull-by charger and the rest were reverse in. The pull in charger worked with a trailer connected in many cases, as the chargers did not front on to busy parking lanes, they were usually set apart. And if your charge port is not at the rear of your vehicle, eg non-Tesla, most Supercharger bays are nose-in.


More recent Superchargers are designed differently. And for those not driving Teslas, we will have to see what other network providers do. Tesla has announced the opening of their Supercharger network to other brands, but it is a limited roll out so far. It is coming.

[DewTheDew]

Originally Posted by jcl

Don't watch CSPAN, but have reviewed multiple studies that do not agree with your statement that lifetime environmental impact of EVs is worse than ICE vehicles. There is a lot of money being spent by legacy fossil fuel interests to defend themselves and create FUD. All "experts" are not created equal. The breakeven point will depend on where the vehicle and battery are manufactured, and how the local grid produces electricity. That said, the balance is pretty unequivocal.

The overstatement of EV environmental impacts vs ICE vehicles are pervasive enough that the EPA created a resource to debunk these myths

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/el...-vehicle-myths

Here is one article:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/life...perts-say.html

Here is another, based on Argonne Lab data: https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2021-06-29/

Here is a reviewed study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s418...r=www.cnbc.com

I agree with your statement that ICE tow vehicles will be around for your lifetime. Don't know your age, but I am in my early sixties. Let's use 30 years, although perhaps not all of it still towing. If I go back 30 years, that is 1992. There are certainly 1992 vehicles on the road today, and one could tow with one if one wanted to. It may not make sense for other than nostalgic reasons, and and parts/fuel/service may not be available, but it will most likely be possible to use a current vehicle 30 years in the future.

Exactly! In fact I read through the testimony and the witness representing Renewable Fuels specifically noted the IEA report that BEVs are about 50% better than ICE vehicles over their lifetime of GHG emissions.

Always keep in mind when watching congressional testimony that each person was invited to give a specific viewpoint by the members of the committee. They are not necessarily "experts" so much as representing a viewpoint and constituency. And the guy from the Manhattan Institute, while noting the long charging time, neglected to mention the ability to charge at home (you cannot refuel at home). As EV owners can tell you, many rarely if ever visit a "gas station" anymore.