Equalizer hitch really needed on a F-250 Superduty?

[hhendrix]

Originally Posted by m.hony

My Equal-i-zer was not properly set up by the dealer.
It was set up a little closer, but still not perfect at Jackson Center.
After 2 years of trial and error I got it the best it can get- good weight distribution and good sway control.
I had to go beyond the generic Equal-i-zer instructions- 6 washers in the hitch head and the L-brackets raised to get sufficient sway control.
I had to figure it out with no help from Progress Manufacturing- all they could do is recite the same generic instructions I already had- what "should" work-
Every rig is different.
There is no one-size-fits-all.
I think I would like a ProPride hitch, but it isn't nearly the priority it once was since I got the Equal-i-zer dialed in.

Exactly the problem. Most dealers don't know how to properly set up a WD system no matter what the brand. Even manufacture's web site/youtube videos mention nothing about using scales to fine tune WD systems. I've probably "re-tuned" at least a dozen WD systems that were dealer installed. The problem is three fold. 1. Using public scales is inconvenient due to locations. 2. Using any scale is time consuming and the hourly rate can add a lot to the system. 3. Buying a accurate reliable scale system (I've been tempted to do many times) is expensive, generally at least $2000.

I just did one installed by a major nationwide RV dealer that was so far out of adjustment, the torsion bars were screaming in agony due to the misalignment and overloading.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by jcrango

I pull a FC27FB with a Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi. It has a payload of 3025 and factory airbags. I use electronic sway master. With the auto leveling air bags the 800 # tongue weight is nothing for that payload rating. It is as if the trailer is not even there. If I am not careful I find myself doing 75 mph and not noticing it. Ok go ahead tell me I need a WD hitch. I don't think so.

Well - you don't seem open to the discussion so I don't consider it my mission to tell you what you do or don't need.

I will say that the 800#TW means 800# against your 3025# payload - big dent or small there is relative and doesn't matter - it's irrelevant as to why you would investigate whether you want/need WD. Your airbags may in fact provide a perfectly level ride - great to keep your headlights out of the trees (which probably doesn't even happen with this configuration) - but this too has nothing to do with whether you'd want/need WD. Your electronic sway master is, I hope, an effective tool to manage sway. Again - that is not going to tell you whether you do/n't want/need WD.

I can't actually tell you that you need it. A trip to the scales and a reading of your user manuals can do that for you.

Have the day of your choosing [emoji3]

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by m.hony

If you are going 65 mph following distance will take care of itself.
Every other vehicle on the road will be going 70 mph or more.
As they pass you and move back into the right lane their higher speed will automatically cause them to pull away from you creating the recommended 6 seconds or more following distance.
Just go the posted limit up to 65 mph and 60-65 mph when the speed limit is greater than 65 mph with weight distribution and sway control.
....

Hi

Well, I wish that were true on the roads up here. Going down 90% of the interstate highways here, you will get a mix from 40 MHP up to 80+. Even when out of the hills, you still will see 55 up to 80+ on a regular basis. It's not just trucks having a hard time. There are a lot of cars that drop to 50 when trying to pass and then head back up to 80 once they are clear. Why they do this, I have no idea at all. Heading down the same stretch, you will have trucks at 75 and other seemingly identical rigs running below 60 ... crazy.

Bob

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Well, I wish that were true on the roads up here. Going down 90% of the interstate highways here, you will get a mix from 40 MHP up to 80+. Even when out of the hills, you still will see 55 up to 80+ on a regular basis. It's not just trucks having a hard time. There are a lot of cars that drop to 50 when trying to pass and then head back up to 80 once they are clear. Why they do this, I have no idea at all. Heading down the same stretch, you will have trucks at 75 and other seemingly identical rigs running below 60 ... crazy.

Bob

Around here people speed up when they are being passed (for some reason older people seem to do this a lot). They slow down again, often way down, after you pass them. I also see a lot of "cruise control passing" by cars and semis. Whenever there are two vehicles, one will always try to pass the other. Sometimes they do this for miles.

[m.hony]

Originally Posted by hhendrix

Exactly the problem. Most dealers don't know how to properly set up a WD system no matter what the brand. Even manufacture's web site/youtube videos mention nothing about using scales to fine tune WD systems. I've probably "re-tuned" at least a dozen WD systems that were dealer installed. The problem is three fold. 1. Using public scales is inconvenient due to locations. 2. Using any scale is time consuming and the hourly rate can add a lot to the system. 3. Buying a accurate reliable scale system (I've been tempted to do many times) is expensive, generally at least $2000.

I just did one installed by a major nationwide RV dealer that was so far out of adjustment, the torsion bars were screaming in agony due to the misalignment and overloading.

Everyone should take the time to understand how these hitches work and how to set them up on their own.
Just like no one I hire washes my car like I do, cleans the house like I do, or does the yard work like I do.
They don’t have a vested interest in my belongings/possessions.
If you want a job done right...
Most people are not interested in the job, only the paycheck...

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

You're replying to yourself to complain twice about an effective hitch with detailed instructions?🤣. You don't use one, you don't have a point of reference, so why the bashing? Did Bambi and Thumper teach you nothing? 🤣

And back to the topic...for DarrelT

The only way to really know is to weigh it at the scales. Too many x-factors - but if your F250 manual has a range where WD is not required/recommended and the 26U tongue weight doesn't lift more off the front than that - you may be able to do without. Odds are good you'll still need it though. I have a 3/4T (Chevy) and sorting through all the manuals, towing a 27FB with 980# of tongue lifts about 500# off the front axle and the manual wants 50-100% of that back. At 50% even 75% restored, there was some porpoising. At 100% restored, it's very smooth.

Good luck!

I have no idea who Bambi and Thumper is. Are they the sales crew for ProPride and Hensley ?

It is way too obvious to ignore when whatever thread seems to fit the slightest those hitches are blowiated about. There are are thousands of other excellent hitches out there doing a great job everyday and you don't see their users plugging them at every opportunity.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by m.hony

Everyone should take the time to understand how these hitches work and how to set them up on their own.
Just like no one I hire washes my car like I do, cleans the house like I do, or does the yard work like I do.
They don’t have a vested interest in my belongings/possessions.
If you want a job done right...
Most people are not interested in the job, only the paycheck...

Hi

One of the most basic issues in playing with these hitches are the tools involved. Unless you work on tanks or artillery as a hobby, they may not be in your inventory I have major reservations about the "sneaky" ways to try and fake the torque numbers on a hitch. Each of them has a "gotcha" associated with it.

Bob

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by DarrellT

Do we realize benefit from our Equalizer setup on a F-250 TV? Have never towed our 26U without it but wonder if we really need it? Of course the dealer sold it as if we needed it

Thoughts?

Darrell

It's an adequate hitch, but not the best, even in its class.

It's the lash-up that matters most.

Few things are as funny to me as the usual 25' AS nose-down hopping along on the front axle behind a one ton. Have seen it so often it's cliche. One may assume this is the default for those who move from half ton to one ton (unless they've the scale tickets posted to show otherwise).

Trailer dead level is basic. Eyeball, measure heights and scale (ask CAT Scalemaster to help with a split-axle weighing).

The advantage of using a WD hitch is twofold: TW is a static measurement of force. That force varies in driving. By spreading it over three points versus one, the combined rig is more predictable. 1] Steering is "better", overall, and, 2] trailer braking force is "better" due to WD.

Three Pass Scale procedure. Gets most of the numbers right in a simple manner. The more difficult numbers (about handling at speed) involve more work. A high speed double lane-change is the standard.

Airbags or other TV rear suspension aids do nothing to counter the lightened TV front end. A bad idea versus a good one. Actually works against best performance with a truck-based vehicle.

Anti-sway is a separate question.

Belt & suspenders answer to that is a VPP hitch and trailer-based electronic anti-sway.

.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

I have no idea who Bambi and Thumper is. Are they the sales crew for ProPride and Hensley ?

Gotta hand it to ya, Frank - that's damn funny! [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3]

Well played![emoji106]

[VaTravelers]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

If you have an AS and hang out on this board then absolutely, positively you need wd and sway control or you will surely die and your children be tossed away like leaves on a stormy sea.
If you are one of the millions of people who have SOBs, cargo, van, equipment or utility trailers and tow them billions of miles a year then you don't need those expensive add ons.

Seriously?

[VaTravelers]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

Got something against machismo?

No. Got something against common sense?

[switz]

Have my own two sets of four wheel scale systems. Setting them up and getting each scale under a wheel takes a lot of time. But I am not inconveniencing anyone else so do not rush the job.

Cost of the two scale systems was over $7k.

I know the weight numbers and still am pleased to be using the Jim Hensley designed hitch systems.

Works for me.

YMMV

[wildhorses]

I may be just a frugal redneck, but whenever I hook any trailer up to my TV for the 1st time I try to do so on a level surface. I use a tape measure to check the height of the hitch from the ground before and after connecting. I also check the height of the trailer rear bumper to see how much it changes.

I also stand back, pull cellphone out and take before and after connecting pics to see if the pivot angle at the hitch changes dramatically after connecting.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by VaTravelers

Seriously?

They were probably being sarcastic, but I see the point. I hitch a trailer to my F350, and 800 lb tongue load takes maybe 200 lb off the front axle, leaving maybe 3200 lbs downward force. This might explain how so many people tow without WD.

I use it because the ride is better, but never had WD of any kind until last year and towed plenty of trailers.

[hhendrix]

Originally Posted by wildhorses

I may be just a frugal redneck, but whenever I hook any trailer up to my TV for the 1st time I try to do so on a level surface. I use a tape measure to check the height of the hitch from the ground before and after connecting. I also check the height of the trailer rear bumper to see how much it changes.

I also stand back, pull cellphone out and take before and after connecting pics to see if the pivot angle at the hitch changes dramatically after connecting.

That's about as good as an informed dealer will do, but many don't even do that. Typical is the "looks good" installation where the TV and trailer combo looks level. Same instructions in most vehicle manuals and hitch manufacturers. As I stated earlier, scales are the only way to really know what's going on.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

They were probably being sarcastic, but I see the point. I hitch a trailer to my F350, and 800 lb tongue load takes maybe 200 lb off the front axle, leaving maybe 3200 lbs downward force. This might explain how so many people tow without WD.

I use it because the ride is better, but never had WD of any kind until last year and towed plenty of trailers.

I have wondered about this myself. I also towed an untold number of times over 35 years equipment trailers of all kinds with 3/4 and 1 ton pick ups. Most of the time over loaded and on expressways in and around Chicago at high speeds never using a WD hitch. And ditto for all the other construction guys out there. I remember occasional sway issues but I simply corrected for it and did never thought of it as a catastrophic event. I did not know they existed until got our first Airstream. Now I can't see myself without it. I believe its psychological conditioning. Its is hyped beyond common sense.
I also believe it became widely use in early years these because these trailers were pulled mostly by cars.

[Mollysdad]

I don't really care what hitch you use.
But since I've been watching this forum, I watch people on the highways and what hitch they have. I've never seen a WD hitch on a boat trailer, cargo trailer, horse trailer, flat bed, or anything except a travel trailer. One would think those trailers would have similar problems.
Travel trailers almost always have WD hitches.

For me, I have the Equal-i-zer, and I like to set it up my self. I want to know the variables, not just what some "installer" thought. Part of that equation is standing back and just looking. "Does it look level?" "What's wrong?"

I wish I'd have taken a picture, but this week I saw a rig on the side of a busy street. It was a 45' motorhome towing a 50'+ race boat on a trailer. The combined length had to be 100'+. Getting fuel had to be an adventure, or maybe he was waiting for the fuel truck to fill him up there?

[slowmover]

Some of you guys need to do a lot more reading. Or thinking.

What other trailer type has the high center of gravity and the huge sail area of a travel trailer?

Answer: none.

WDH is about making the rig respond well in handling, braking and steering.

Re-distributing TW is about spreading force. Making the combined vehicle act more like one.

"Weight" is NOT the central problem. It's just part of an equation in setting up the rig.

Loss of control accidents involve winds. That's number one.

As to others not using them? Can't fix stupid. Hitch receiver calls for it as does operators manual.

As to never being used?. I've been "looking" fifty years. It's to be seen. Not as often as prudence dictates, so see discussions on boat forums (5% TW), etc. The Internet has been a help to many.

.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by slowmover

..... so see discussions on boat forums (5% TW), etc. .....

.

Hi

Only look at the boat forums if you want to get *really* worried about what others may be doing on the same roads you are driving on. In a lot of cases it's < 20 miles twice a year so the odds of you "encountering" them are pretty slim. 12,000 lb of boat plus trailer behind a Honda Civic .... yikes .....

So yes, you *can* get away with a lot of things. I suspect that most of us have done stuff that involves a bit of risk. We're still here to talk about it. A lot of it is "how lucky do you feel?...".

If the problems were strictly going to impact the owner of the rig, that's one thing. In some cases that is indeed the way it goes down. You take the risk, you suffer the consequences. In a lot of other cases, it's not just the owner who winds up with damage ....That makes the "it's my decision" part a bit less strong of an argument.

Bob

[wildhorses]

I buy salvage vehicles all the time and occasionally look for Airstreams on the salvage auction website. I found this today (notice the expensive WD hitch still attached):
https://www.iaai.com/Vehicle?itemID=26173425