Engine blew up!

[tbashin]

Guy at work said his 3.0 just started ticking then gradually is becoming a knock. HAs 26k miles. He's trading it in for a Ford.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

What do you mean "never fully warming up" and what is a "short trip"? I drive mine 15 miles each way every morning to the gym when not Airstreaming...I start with the remote keyfob 5-7 min before leaving and average speed is about 65; rarely if ever, stomp on the gas...no need. It is always pretty warm when I get in; seats on and wheel are very warm...(colder weather of course). Are you suggesting that is not enough time to warm up a diesel 6.7L?

It depends on the ambient temperatures and the load you apply to the engine, but 15 miles should warm it up. Let's say you get it warm after 8 or 10 miles on your gym trip each morning. That means that 1/2 to 2/3 of your driving on this route is with a cold engine, or at least one not fully up to temperature. That is hard on any engine, more so a diesel, and I would be using a different type of vehicle for that use.

I would never start a vehicle with a remote. It is very hard on the engine. Best practice is to start it up, wait until you have oil pressure to the top end, wait until the windshield is clear if that is an issue, and then drive it. Usually 10 seconds for me, plus any windshield clearing time. Use a light throttle until it is warmed up, and avoid high revs. Engine wear when starting from cold, which is most of your engine wear, is related to the time spent running cold, and running it with no load on it (eg idling in the driveway) just extends the warm up cycle, with resultant increased engine wear.

Obviously some of us need to do short trips. In that case, those short trips need to be interspersed with longer trips where the engine does get fully up to temperature, and importantly, spends enough time at that operating temperature to get rid of all the moisture in the crankcase. It isn't just about getting it up to temperature, it is running it at that temperature.

If cold start issues relate to perceived vehicle interior temperatures, use an electric car warmer. I use electric seats and have a steering wheel heater. The only issue is no heated seats in the rear.

My 3.0 gas engine has never been warmed for more than 10 seconds, including when I have been in -30 C ambients. I regularly take it up to 5000 rpm (7000 rpm redline) but not until it is fully warmed. It has 170,000 km on it. It has oil changes at 20,000 - 24,000 km, slightly more frequently than the manufacturer calls for. It doesn't use any oil at all in between those changes. This is exactly as I expect.

I regularly see posts talking about how towing a trailer will wear out a smaller engine prematurely. I don't agree with that. I see few posts about how suboptimal use (idling, short trips) will shorten engine life. That is too bad.

[J. Morgan]

My vehicle procedure has been simple. I drive em’ like I’m going to drive em’, don’t dog em’ too much, change he oil when it seems right and that’s about it.

The vehicles I drive generally last a good long time with minimal issues.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

What do you mean "never fully warming up" and what is a "short trip"? I drive mine 15 miles each way every morning to the gym when not Airstreaming...I start with the remote keyfob 5-7 min before leaving and average speed is about 65; rarely if ever, stomp on the gas...no need. It is always pretty warm when I get in; seats on and wheel are very warm...(colder weather of course). Are you suggesting that is not enough time to warm up a diesel 6.7L?

It does not need to idle that long...a Diesel engine does not warm up by idleing...a couple minutes and go ..soft pedal it for a ways...a small load will warm it up faster..idleing causes lots of problems and counts against you...I run mine like the big truck...1-2 minutes and we are moving slowly to the main road, ease thru town,..and hit the interstate by then she is 180 degrees..

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by jcl

it depends on the ambient temperatures and the load you apply to the engine, but 15 miles should warm it up. Let's say you get it warm after 8 or 10 miles on your gym trip each morning. That means that 1/2 to 2/3 of your driving on this route is with a cold engine, or at least one not fully up to temperature. That is hard on any engine, more so a diesel, and i would be using a different type of vehicle for that use.

I would never start a vehicle with a remote. It is very hard on the engine. Best practice is to start it up, wait until you have oil pressure to the top end, wait until the windshield is clear if that is an issue, and then drive it. Usually 10 seconds for me, plus any windshield clearing time. Use a light throttle until it is warmed up, and avoid high revs. Engine wear when starting from cold, which is most of your engine wear, is related to the time spent running cold, and running it with no load on it (eg idling in the driveway) just extends the warm up cycle, with resultant increased engine wear.

Obviously some of us need to do short trips. In that case, those short trips need to be interspersed with longer trips where the engine does get fully up to temperature, and importantly, spends enough time at that operating temperature to get rid of all the moisture in the crankcase. It isn't just about getting it up to temperature, it is running it at that temperature.

If cold start issues relate to perceived vehicle interior temperatures, use an electric car warmer. I use electric seats and have a steering wheel heater. The only issue is no heated seats in the rear.

My 3.0 gas engine has never been warmed for more than 10 seconds, including when i have been in -30 c ambients. I regularly take it up to 5000 rpm (7000 rpm redline) but not until it is fully warmed. It has 170,000 km on it. It has oil changes at 20,000 - 24,000 km, slightly more frequently than the manufacturer calls for. It doesn't use any oil at all in between those changes. This is exactly as i expect.

I regularly see posts talking about how towing a trailer will wear out a smaller engine prematurely. I don't agree with that. I see few posts about how suboptimal use (idling, short trips) will shorten engine life. That is too bad.

agree......

[Shermy1987]

You guys are making driving sound like hard work. You start the thing, idle it for a while if it's freezing, then drive it!!!

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by jcl

It depends on the ambient temperatures and the load you apply to the engine, but 15 miles should warm it up. Let's say you get it warm after 8 or 10 miles on your gym trip each morning. That means that 1/2 to 2/3 of your driving on this route is with a cold engine, or at least one not fully up to temperature. That is hard on any engine, more so a diesel, and I would be using a different type of vehicle for that use.

I would never start a vehicle with a remote. It is very hard on the engine. Best practice is to start it up, wait until you have oil pressure to the top end, wait until the windshield is clear if that is an issue, and then drive it. Usually 10 seconds for me, plus any windshield clearing time. Use a light throttle until it is warmed up, and avoid high revs. Engine wear when starting from cold, which is most of your engine wear, is related to the time spent running cold, and running it with no load on it (eg idling in the driveway) just extends the warm up cycle, with resultant increased engine wear.

Obviously some of us need to do short trips. In that case, those short trips need to be interspersed with longer trips where the engine does get fully up to temperature, and importantly, spends enough time at that operating temperature to get rid of all the moisture in the crankcase. It isn't just about getting it up to temperature, it is running it at that temperature.

If cold start issues relate to perceived vehicle interior temperatures, use an electric car warmer. I use electric seats and have a steering wheel heater. The only issue is no heated seats in the rear.

My 3.0 gas engine has never been warmed for more than 10 seconds, including when I have been in -30 C ambients. I regularly take it up to 5000 rpm (7000 rpm redline) but not until it is fully warmed. It has 170,000 km on it. It has oil changes at 20,000 - 24,000 km, slightly more frequently than the manufacturer calls for. It doesn't use any oil at all in between those changes. This is exactly as I expect.

I regularly see posts talking about how towing a trailer will wear out a smaller engine prematurely. I don't agree with that. I see few posts about how suboptimal use (idling, short trips) will shorten engine life. That is too bad.

I would never start a vehicle with a remote. It is very hard on the engine.
Guess I am confused at this comment; tell me the issues related with using the remote start vs hitting the start button? Never heard this was an issue with any engine...I don't have -0 weather here in Austin (yet!) and I am not driving back/forth to MT anymore in winter, so really cold weather for me is +20-25 perhaps...over a 3-4 day period once or twice in winter. How is using the remote start an issue? The seat warmers and steering warmer come on automatically and I typically see the temp come up after 5-8 min of idle...I do drive it slowly for about 1/4 mile till I have to step on it to get into traffic leaving my development. Interested to understand your comments and data on the remote start. I appreciate the information.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

I would never start a vehicle with a remote. It is very hard on the engine.
Guess I am confused at this comment; tell me the issues related with using the remote start vs hitting the start button? Never heard this was an issue with any engine...I don't have -0 weather here in Austin (yet!) and I am not driving back/forth to MT anymore in winter, so really cold weather for me is +20-25 perhaps...over a 3-4 day period once or twice in winter. How is using the remote start an issue? The seat warmers and steering warmer come on automatically and I typically see the temp come up after 5-8 min of idle...I do drive it slowly for about 1/4 mile till I have to step on it to get into traffic leaving my development. Interested to understand your comments and data on the remote start. I appreciate the information.

If I’m not looking directly at the oil pressure gage I don’t start it.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Shermy1987

You guys are making driving sound like hard work. You start the thing, idle it for a while if it's freezing, then drive it!!!

Idling it for a while if it’s freezing is abusing the machinery. You are simply extending the warmup cycle and causing unnecessary wear.

Idle it if you need to wait to clear the windshield, for safety reasons. Otherwise, drive it moderately and warm it faster.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

I would never start a vehicle with a remote. It is very hard on the engine.
Guess I am confused at this comment; tell me the issues related with using the remote start vs hitting the start button? Never heard this was an issue with any engine...I don't have -0 weather here in Austin (yet!) and I am not driving back/forth to MT anymore in winter, so really cold weather for me is +20-25 perhaps...over a 3-4 day period once or twice in winter. How is using the remote start an issue? The seat warmers and steering warmer come on automatically and I typically see the temp come up after 5-8 min of idle...I do drive it slowly for about 1/4 mile till I have to step on it to get into traffic leaving my development. Interested to understand your comments and data on the remote start. I appreciate the information.

I should have been more clear. When I say start with a remote I mean start remotely. If you are in the driver’s seat and ready to depart once it fires up, it doesn’t matter which mechanism you use.

Instead of idling for the time you note, try driving moderately and see if you can reduce the duration of the warm up cycle. That is the objective, to spend the least amount of time running cold as is reasonably possible.

Also recall that when you warm up an engine by idling you aren’t warming other systems like transmissions and differentials. You should drive moderately until those components are warm in any case, which makes the idling redundant. Let’s say you drive 2 or 3 blocks and then punch it. Rhetorically, what are the temps of the diffs and transmission at that point, relative to operating temperatures?

A clarification on waiting for oil pressure. I don’t hit it when the oil pressure gauge shows activity. I want the oil to circulate to the top end, and that isn’t what the oil pressure gauge is indicating.

Warming up by idling being good for an engine is a common myth that has been around for decades. 1960s owner’s manuals specifically cautioned against it. With modern diesels, the consequences can just be more severe.

With diesels some like to emulate semi trucks which are often seen idling. Those units often idle to keep the sleeper warm, or run ancillaries. Auxiliary power units are a better choice.

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by jcl

...

With diesels some like to emulate semi trucks which are often seen idling. Those units often idle to keep the sleeper warm, or run ancillaries. Auxiliary power units are a better choice.

I worked in a job where there were three shifts. Sometimes in the winter it was so cold you had to leave the car idling until the next shift drove off to avoid the risk of car not starting for the next guy. In an eight hour shift the vehicle was idling at least 50% of the time. A lot of people thought those cars were a good buy at the auction because they were traded at low mileage, but in reality the engines had at least double the wear indicated by the odometer.

[J. Morgan]

“They” say a lot, but in the end whether a person “warms it up”, or just drives away it really doesn’t matter,,,,,,, ESPECIALLY on this forum where most owners by far will never see a hundred thousand miles on their tow vehicles, let alone two hundred thousand miles. #JustSayin [emoji4]

(This post may seem a bit sarcastic, and it is a little, but nonetheless, it’s still true..... lol )

[jcl]

Seems to me that if people want to take the time to read a thread about premature engine failure in a tow vehicle, they might also want to discuss what the contributing factors are to that type of failure.

Sure, one can not worry about it, and as mitigation one can always trade it early. That is a valid approach. But there are other approaches. And they cost less, pollute less, and increase reliability.

[Shermy1987]

Jesus. As stated. I've been rebuilding modern diesels for 15 years. None of the engines I've been rebuilding have failed due to how the vehicle has been warmed up. It's hardly a conversation worth talking about. Cycle times are hardly a conversation worth talking about either. It' is 2018 after all.

The only thing I can say about idle times is. Unlike pre emissions engines where it was acceptable to leave a diesel idling for large amounts of time. Today it is not. This is simply due to the fact that an EGR will still cycle at idle on many engines which can shorten DPF lifespan and coke up the intake side of an engine. Still. This hardly leads to a rebuild type of faliure. I have spent many hours de carboning intakes tho.

[jcl]

The types of engine failure under discussion don’t have to be limited to rebuilding. Anything that increases the likelihood of unplanned interventions, even before we get to it costing more, should be avoided.

What does Jesus drive?

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by jcl

What does Jesus drive?

A Hummer.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[VernDiesel]

Lol Robert you must be following someone who did a full delete with extra fueling for max power or at minimum a 20 year old International 7.3. (because they are still running which is far more environmentally friendly than having had to be long recycled as an average gasser) Todays small diesels are clean quiet & smooth. Most passengers or pedestrians never realize its a diesel.

JCL If you are committed to true environmental stewardship you should enjoy watching Cowspiracy on Netflicks. The ICE would not make it close to the top of a real environmental priorities list. The ICE is used as a scapegoat under "environmental" legislative taxation & control bills to forward ideological priories for the international elite socialists groups. Yea I know they should not be running any of our government. We have less each day of the people by the people for the people and or our BOL bill of rights to protect us from them. Step by step they are getting people to inadvertently vote to replace the BOR with the ten planks.

my3sonsdad, You know you can simply remove clean and reinstall at no cost. And or other options. 490k on mine and I have spent nothing on this scary thing you present. Not that their is nothing there but their is always people organizations with a way to get you to part with your money. Often there is better more cost effective solutions for those that seek them.

67, No lotto winner here already lots of 200k Ecodiesels on the road. Also a higher looks like 3 to 4% again too high failure rate by 100k. Looking forward to the 2nd gen of this little gem of a motor to properly remedie these bearing failures. Baring abuse etc the 1st gen because of this tends to be a zero or hero by luck of the draw.

For freezing temps I utilize factory plug in oil heater and start remotely. The GDE tune has an automatic 1,200 rpm cold idle warm up. I click the remote start a few minutes before going out to a truck thats warm enough to blow warm air and a short easy roll down the road with weather front has it up to normal operating temps. With this truck thats 204 coolant with oil temp being a little warmer than the coolants.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

JCL If you are committed to true environmental stewardship you should enjoy watching Cowspiracy on Netflicks. The ICE would not make it close to the top of a real environmental priorities list. The ICE is used as a scapegoat under "environmental" legislative taxation & control bills to forward ideological priories for the international elite socialists groups. Yea I know they should not be running any of our government. We have less each day of the people by the people for the people and or our BOL bill of rights to protect us from them. Step by step they are getting people to inadvertently vote to replace the BOR with the ten planks.

Thanks, but I will pass. Questionable statistics. They appear to be using total Ag and Forestry sector numbers for GHG, not breaking out forestry, and not considering the carbon sink offsets, which reduce the net Ag GHG significantly. Your EPA has Ag at 9%, less than 1/3 of transportation emissions of GHG. Transportation is listed as the single largest category of GHG emissions in the US. Sure, there are others, but the thread is about diesels. I think that 9% fpr Ag is a more reasonable assessment. Still, it's a good idea to include non-meat options IMO. And beef is the largest offender, so it shows up infrequently for us. YMMV.

But if you liked the movie, recommend you read Michael Pollan, particularly Cooked. He is listed as a subject matter expert.

Can't agree with your assertion that the ICE (I would say the fossil fuel industry, and not blame just the ICE) is being used as a scapegoat by international elites. Or the Marx reference. And by virtue of citizenship I am not part of "we" when you refer to your BOR. I think all of us should start thinking about GHG and climate change issues as security issues, and economic issues, and not political ones. But this appears to be straying to politics, so perhaps we could agree to disagree.

[Jim Flower]

New long block is working perfectly, just like the original eco Diesel was before it imploded. My old Jeep CRD came for a visit today. It is having some intercooler piping issues (again). My son has a new hose that we will install tomorrow and see if that resolves the going into limp mode.

Jim

[Jim Flower]

New hose installed. Engine now running normally again.