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GinMame · 09-06-2012, 07:50 PM

Hi Everyone,

For those that are interested, here are the window and weights stickers for the 2012 F150 EcoBoost Lariat that I test drove just before the 2012 F250 Diesel. I'm also attaching the window sticker for the F250. Unfortunately, the F250 loading sticker didn't come out well and I prematurely deleted the photos of the RAM and GMC. Which I now wish I hadn't, but that only gives me an excuse to go look at them again. At this point, while I like the Ford products and have been a long time Ford man, I'm beginning to lean towards the GMC / Chevrolet a little bit more. Mostly due to the DuraMax / Allison combo. I don't completely trust Ford on either their Diesel or EcoBoost engines yet and I switched to Ford from Dodge decades ago due to problems with their transmissions and breaks.

On a side note, I hope that someone from Ford is reading this, having to drill out spark plugs at 100K miles or having to replace turbochargers at 50K or having exhaust valves fall apart under normal driving conditions doesn't say good things about Ford trucks. Ford here is your opportunity to wow all of us and prove that Quality really is "Job 1".

Cheers All,
Rion

rp709 · 09-06-2012, 10:49 PM

I sold my previous 2008 GMC Sierra Duramax 4x4 in 2010 as a two year old. My phone was ringing off the hook at 40k from guys in Canada and the Great Lakes. The first thing everyone asked was 'is it a 4x4'? If you tour the dealerships, you will be hard pressed to find a Ford or GM 3/4 ton that has 2 wheel drive. ( I saw a few Ram's with 4x2 and Laramie package). I have never seen one in the high end packages at Ford. You can order a 4x2 equipped the same as a 4x4, but then it becomes a pretty rare animal. I selected a 4x4 then and with my 2012 Denali last month because even if I use the 4x4 rarely, the resale value will exceed the cost. There are large numbers of 1/2 ton trucks sold with 2 wheel drive. But, here in California, very few 3/4 ton trucks don't have 4 wheel drive. An interesting item for those considering a GM 3/4. I checked with several dealers and determined that the Z71 suspension option has the exact same components as the standard 3/4 ton! There are differences in shocks, jounce bumpers and sway bars for the 1/2 ton, but not the 3/4. Those parts all have the same part number! The Z71 gives you skid plates (but those are standard on the Deali) and decals. So, on a Denali, you are paying $200 for decals!

r carl · 09-07-2012, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colberjs

I realize I am biased toward Ford. But.....GM bought all three vehicles that participated in the competition. Therefore they chose the location and other specifics of the face off. I think they had to know that the Ford would not perform as well at elevation (when making runs closer to sea level the Ford actually won). The Ford engine braking also performed better at other speeds.

I really don't think it's a coincidence that Chevy wins the events when they are the ones that put the money out there to host it.

Just my opinion.....

Im still waiting for ford to come out with a comparison video..

Chevy Silverado HD2HD | Pickup Truck Comparison | Chevrolet.com

dznf0g · 09-07-2012, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rp709

I sold my previous 2008 GMC Sierra Duramax 4x4 in 2010 as a two year old. My phone was ringing off the hook at 40k from guys in Canada and the Great Lakes. The first thing everyone asked was 'is it a 4x4'? If you tour the dealerships, you will be hard pressed to find a Ford or GM 3/4 ton that has 2 wheel drive. ( I saw a few Ram's with 4x2 and Laramie package). I have never seen one in the high end packages at Ford. You can order a 4x2 equipped the same as a 4x4, but then it becomes a pretty rare animal. I selected a 4x4 then and with my 2012 Denali last month because even if I use the 4x4 rarely, the resale value will exceed the cost. There are large numbers of 1/2 ton trucks sold with 2 wheel drive. But, here in California, very few 3/4 ton trucks don't have 4 wheel drive. An interesting item for those considering a GM 3/4. I checked with several dealers and determined that the Z71 suspension option has the exact same components as the standard 3/4 ton! There are differences in shocks, jounce bumpers and sway bars for the 1/2 ton, but not the 3/4. Those parts all have the same part number! The Z71 gives you skid plates (but those are standard on the Deali) and decals. So, on a Denali, you are paying $200 for decals!

I don't believe your guy is correct on the Z71 comments....I'll check.

r carl · 09-07-2012, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GinMame

Hi Everyone,

On a side note, I hope that someone from Ford is reading this, having to drill out spark plugs at 100K miles or having to replace turbochargers at 50K or having exhaust valves fall apart under normal driving conditions doesn't say good things about Ford trucks. Ford here is your opportunity to wow all of us and prove that Quality really is "Job 1".

Cheers All,
Rion

It appears Ford purposely created the spark-plug problem that would happen just after the warranty expired! Potential $3000 to $4000 spark-plug change on a v-10 for the dealers to cash in on. Its not likely you could find an engineer that would specify 3/8" of threads in an aluminum head for the spark-plugs. My God, a Briggs&Stratton 3hp has more threads than that!!!!!
It make you wonder....

dznf0g · 09-07-2012, 06:33 AM

There's a Z71 appearance package available ONLY with the Z71 off roda package. The off road package includes several differences in suspension as well as includes some items which would be free float options if not in the package, like skid plates and locking diff, etc.

Z71® Appearance Package
The Z71® Appearance Package, available with the Off-Road Suspension Package, includes a body-colored front bumper, chrome grille with body-colored surround, 18" forged polished aluminum wheels with LT265/70R18E all-terrain blackwall tires, body-colored outside mirrors and door handles, front fog lamps, unique "Z71" decals and sillplates.
Aluminum wheels can be upgraded to 20" forged polished aluminum wheels1 with LT265/60R20E all-terrain blackwall tires. This package is not available in Regular Cab models or with exterior colors Blue Granite Metallic, Mocha Steel Metallic, Blue Topaz Metallic or Blue Ray Metallic. Mirrors are Black if equipped with the available outside heated power-adjustable vertical camper mirrors.

Z71® Off-Road Suspension Package
For the true off-roader. The Z71® Off-Road Suspension Package gets serious capability from twin tube shock absorbers and a 33 mm front stabilizer bar. Jounce bumpers are designed specifically to handle huge suspension variants so you can hit the deep stuff. The skid plate package includes a frame-mounted shield to help protect the underbody, oil pan, differential case and transfer case. And don’t forget the automatic locking rear differential that sends maximum drive power to the wheel with grip whenever rear-wheel slippage happens. As a finishing touch, Z71 decals are included on both rear quarters.

The package requires trailering equipment and LT265/70R17E, LT265/70R18E or LT265/60R20E all-terrain, blackwall tires; it is not available with pickup box delete.

rp709 · 09-08-2012, 08:43 PM

If you check the part numbers using VIN numbers of vehicles with and without Z71 (HD trucks only!) you will find identical shocks, jounce bumpers and stabilizer bars. Those items are added to the HD trucks as standard and it is called Z85 suspension. The skid plate package is standard on the Denali with or without Z71. The locking differential is also standard on some trim levels with or without Z71. The Z71 appearance package is cosmetic only on some trim levels. Sorry, Z71 does not equal different suspension on the GM HD trucks. You do get decals though!

GinMame · 09-09-2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rp709

If you check the part numbers using VIN numbers of vehicles with and without Z71 (HD trucks only!) you will find identical shocks, jounce bumpers and stabilizer bars. Those items are added to the HD trucks as standard and it is called Z85 suspension. The skid plate package is standard on the Denali with or without Z71. The locking differential is also standard on some trim levels with or without Z71. The Z71 appearance package is cosmetic only on some trim levels. Sorry, Z71 does not equal different suspension on the GM HD trucks. You do get decals though!

Hooray for decals!

Thank you for the information. I wonder though, I've read elsewhere in these forums about the Z71 package being the cause of greater rivet loss. Maybe that is only on the 1/2 ton trucks?

Cheers

ElCamino Man · 09-09-2012, 09:11 AM

Any 3/4 ton rides rough though. Its the nature of the beast lol

dznf0g · 09-09-2012, 10:45 AM

I pulled with a 2500 HD Z85 last year and a 2500 HD Z71 this year. Z71 is rougher. Just shocks, I believe. Springs are the same. (btw, there are 3 part numbers for front shocks and 2 for rear shocks for a Silverado HD 2500, but I'm too lazy to cross reference production codes with option codes) For towing, I'd recommend the Z85, unless your truck has to do double duty in true off road applications.

SteveH · 09-09-2012, 11:04 AM

This may or maynot be of interest on this thread....I test drove a 2010 2500 Ram truck yesterday with the Cummins Diesel engine, and it didn't seem to have anywhere near the power of my '08 GMC Duramax. I was disapointed in it.

GinMame · 09-11-2012, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g

I pulled with a 2500 HD Z85 last year and a 2500 HD Z71 this year. Z71 is rougher. Just shocks, I believe. Springs are the same. (btw, there are 3 part numbers for front shocks and 2 for rear shocks for a Silverado HD 2500, but I'm too lazy to cross reference production codes with option codes) For towing, I'd recommend the Z85, unless your truck has to do double duty in true off road applications.

Just out of curiosity, but what is the Z85 package? I don't intend to use the truck for real off-road boulder bashing, just a daily driver pulling an Airstream.

Cheers

dznf0g · 09-12-2012, 06:57 AM

Z85 is the regular, non-off road suspension package. I agree, when I buy, I will not get Z71. Now, if your truck does double duty on construction sites, farm...etc. you may want Z71. But for most of us RV'ers, whos off road use is pretty much confined to pulling into and out of sites and even the occasional fire road, I would opt for Z85.

Kosm1o · 09-12-2012, 07:01 AM

Unless you are off roading, I would also suggest you get different tires than spec for Z71. Those tires are really, really noisey.
Kos

**moosetags** · 09-12-2012, 07:50 AM

Our 2011 Siverado 3500 4x4 has the Z-71 suspension package. We have found that the Michelin AT's that came on the truck are not particularly noisy on the highway.

Brian

BillTex · 09-12-2012, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

This may or maynot be of interest on this thread....I test drove a 2010 2500 Ram truck yesterday with the Cummins Diesel engine, and it didn't seem to have anywhere near the power of my '08 GMC Duramax. I was disapointed in it.

IIRC 2010 Dodge was pretty far behind the hp/tq wars...I think they just caught up this year.

I am sure one of the Dodge Guys will comment.

B

dznf0g · 09-12-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moosetags

Our 2011 Siverado 3500 4x4 has the Z-71 suspension package. We have found that the Michelin AT's that came on the truck are not particularly noisy on the highway.

Brian

I like them too, but you can order the 18" polished chrome with the Michelins as a free float option without Z71. I had that setup last year in the Silverado I was driving. This year it's the same tire and wheel with Z71. I don't think the tires are noisy at all....compared to many of their competitors. OF COURSE they are noisier than a highway tire though.

colberjs · 09-12-2012, 11:08 AM

Michelin A/T's get great wear mileage!!!

SteveH · 09-12-2012, 11:16 AM

I had Michelin M/S 2 on my truck, and they were very noisy, and did not wear all that good....only got about 50K out of them when they are supposed to be a 60K mile tire. Rode rough too.

rp709 · 09-12-2012, 11:55 PM

Remember, the Z71 suspension is the same as the standard 2500HD parts. The AT tire choice is a separate line on the build sheet--not included with 'Z71'. If you get a Silverado LTZ or Sierra SLT, Z71 will include skid plates and a decal--that's it! I have a 2012 GMC 2500HD Denali 4x4 with Duramax/Allison and spent months researching this. Salesmen have no clue about the suspension differences. I had 4 fleet and 2 parts managers at 4 different (2 Chevy, 2 GMC) dealers look into this and we all learned how GM does it. Good luck!