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Old 02-13-2013, 10:17 PM   #1
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Dodge Releasing the 1500 Diesel Half Ton

Saw this on USA Today. Ram 1500 half-ton to get diesel http://usat.ly/UgdyXx
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:29 PM   #2
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Interesting. I hope the date of its availability doesn't turn out to be the same moving target that Fiat's re-introduction of Alfa Romeo to the US market has been, but I guess they can't afford to screw with their money-making truck like they can with what will always be a niche sporty car line.

This is great, I've been thinking that a new truck is in the cards around 2015, that should be enough time to find out if this new V6 diesel is going to do well in the truck. It's nice that they're using the same 3-liter from the Grand Cherokee, so a) it's imperative that they make it reliable and b) it's not going to be some stupid "mine's bigger'n yers" numbers game, they've realized that 420 lb-ft is enough! (especially in front of an 8-speed transmission.)

As much as I love Cummins' engines, I'm not going to buy a Panamerica and fill it with lead so I just won't need that much engine, so I'm excited about this 3-liter option. I've said and written (on this forum in fact) that we really need a right-sized diesel in a full-size truck.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:45 PM   #3
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It's hard for me to imagine a better match for my Airstream than this Ram 1500 diesel or the recently introduced Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel. Excellent towing potential and fuel economy, as well as decent daily drivers.

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Old 02-13-2013, 11:41 PM   #4
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It's hard for me to imagine a better match for my Airstream than this Ram 1500 diesel or the recently introduced Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel. Excellent towing potential and fuel economy, as well as decent daily drivers.

doug k
Imagine this....

Ford f150 with ecoboost.



Shane
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:58 PM   #5
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At one point in time, there was even hope for modest sized diesel for the Ford Ranger class pickups. Ford selected one of their smallest engines to try and it was tooooo small so the truck could barely move itself let alone 500 pounds in the back. It was, to put it kindly, a flop.

Because the diesel engine is built heavier because of the pressures in the combustion chamber, the diesel version always weigh more than the equivalent displacement gasoline engine. The big gotcha will be the net honest payload weight after the weights for the Dodge accessories to makeup the specific model with towing capability, the weights for real people for driver and passenger, full fuel, and some miscellaneous items in the back are added up. One would hope to see perhaps 1,500 pounds remaining in payload after the afore mentioned items were calculated.

My 25FB, like many AS units in wide body (8.5' wide) format has a nominal 1,200 pound tongue weight despite the Airstream sales literature mentioning 833 pounds for that weight. Thus, the theoretical payload probably needs to be close to 2,200 pounds.

In my previous posts about the F150 Eco-Boost in a fully dressed King Ranch model, the literature in one location said there could be 1,900 payload, but that was clarified in another document with the fact that number was for a bare truck and we had to deduct about 420 pounds for the trim level, options, tow package specific stuff etc which left the net payload around 1,480 pounds. My tongue weight plus just the wife and me blow past that number so the truck would be over GVW.

I can envision this Ram 1500 diesel as being an ideal tow vehicle for the 23' and shorter models of Airstream trailers where the weights of the trailer and specifically tongue weights are more modest. The new steel technology released in the 2013 Dodge models has helped shave vehicle weight that translates into more payload capability.

This will make for interesting fall model introductions! Perhaps even Ford and especially GM, as a co-partner in the company that will make the v6 diesel, will have diesel news in the 1/2 ton arena as well.

YMMV
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:59 PM   #6
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Imagine this....

Ford f150 with ecoboost.



Shane
That's what I've considered my default choice up to now, and unless Ram comes out with some different configurations for the 2014s, the F150 will still be the clear payload winner (in the 157" wheelbase HD Payload config) but that VM Motori 3-liter diesel V6 makes it a competition, and the EB F150 previously didn't really have any in the half-ton space.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:54 PM   #7
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That truck would be able to handle any A/S. The numbers game is only a start on understanding how to set up a tow vehicle (the usual spread-sheet with manufacturer bits & pieces). There is more to it to get the best overall performance.

TW is generally seen as the limiting factor . . but there is more than one way to skin that cat in re-distribution.

The diesel is about ten years overdue in the 1/2-T. This is unfortunate as the emissions devices now necessary make for a very expensive package.

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Old 02-15-2013, 07:20 AM   #8
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That's good news for us consumers that there is another choice in tow vehicles. If they can back it up with some decent tow/payload specifications like the f150 I think they will sell. Ford seemed to have found a nice niche for the f150 ecoboost and now there might be some competition.
Now if the cost of diesel would only fall more in line to where it should be. I get tired of paying 50 cents to a dollar premium for diesel fuel.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:19 AM   #9
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I am a believer in small V6 diesels for 1/2 ton truck and SUV applications. It's about time someone other than the Europeans had something on the market (even if it is sourced from Europe). I strongly considered buying a GL320, but the combined Mercedes and diesel premiums were more than I wanted to spend. They need to get that diesel in the new Durango as well.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:28 AM   #10
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Two things.....short runs on any diesel is not good. If your an occasional traveler, and do a 9-5'er during the week..then the diesel won't last. Egr's will kill you.

Plus the price of diesel is not good or gonna get better.

Plus why loose the payload when/if needed. I don't see the advantage? Cheaper maybe...but not less than 3 grand...to me doesn't make sense.


Don't forget about DEF fluid either. 100 dollar oil changes.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:41 AM   #11
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Two things.....short runs on any diesel is not good. If your an occasional traveler, and do a 9-5'er during the week..then the diesel won't last. Egr's will kill you.

Plus the price of diesel is not good or gonna get better.

Plus why loose the payload when/if needed. I don't see the advantage? Cheaper maybe...but not less than 3 grand...to me doesn't make sense.


Don't forget about DEF fluid either. 100 dollar oil changes.
Shane
You're missing a digit.

Dodge 1500 crewcab Laramie (5.7L hemi) bases around $38,000.
Dodge 2500 crewcab Laramie (6.7L Cummins) bases at $51,000.

That's a 13 grand delta. I'm guessing the VM Motori V6 is probably going to be a $3k-$4k premium if they actually want to sell any. It'll deliver better-than-Hemi torque and but less horsepower, so it'll be a better tow rig but a worse dragster. I agree that the truck is a better economic choice for people who are doing a lot of towing than for people who drive it to their white-collar job, but I live in the DFW area where LOTS of morons put WAY more miles on their HD diesel pickups commuting to their white-collar jobs than they do towing their boat or 5th wheel.

What Dodge needs to make this truck competitive is a package that gives it decent payload in a useful configuration, like Ford's combo of F150 Supercrew+6.5' box+3.73 LSD at around 2300 lb payload.

EDIT: Well duh. You live in Arlington. You see them, the F250s and Duramaxes in office parking lots. When I bought my F150, the salesman was talking about his diesel SuperDuty. I asked him what he tows with it and he looked at my like I was crazy and said "Oh, I don't have a boat or anything, I just like the truck."
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:57 AM   #12
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My second car purchased used, when I was 20, was a 1958 Mercedes 180 D (diesel). From then until about 2000 I always had diesels. Then gas engines got so good, and diesels became so much more costly (including fuel) that I went back to gas. These days gas engines are so good with computer management, 100k plugs, no points, etc that many of the diesel advantages are moot points. Sure, if the diesel rig is some huge F350 towing a monster 5th wheel, yep, but I am not convinced that there is any real economy in them otherwise.

BTW, at least 500K of diesel driving in all those years I had them.

I are old, gots lots of opinions.... grin.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:09 AM   #13
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Not everyone has a short commute. Mine's 30 miles one way.

I broke my crystal ball last week so, I'm not going to bother with forecasting the future relative costs of diesel vs. gas. At today's gas and diesel prices, the diesel would have to get 18.5 combined to be cost equivalent to a gasser getting 17 combined. I'm betting it will beat that by more than enough to cover DEF.

V6 diesels weigh about the same as small block V8's and have only slightly higher oil capacities so that cost (while legitimate with your F250 Superduty) is not a significant concern.

3.0L VM Motori - 498 lbs
5.7L Hemi - 485 lbs
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:50 AM   #14
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Yeah, ThePill and I are talking about different things. Re-reading, I think you were saying gas TVs are better for lots of people, which I somehow read as him saying there is no case for half ton diesels because there are 3/4 ton diesels. I blame the wine.
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:29 AM   #15
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Not everyone has a short commute. Mine's 30 miles one way.

I broke my crystal ball last week so, I'm not going to bother with forecasting the future relative costs of diesel vs. gas. At today's gas and diesel prices, the diesel would have to get 18.5 combined to be cost equivalent to a gasser getting 17 combined. I'm betting it will beat that by more than enough to cover DEF.

s
There will always be people who don't like for what ever reasons a good diesel engine. My commute is about 15 miles highway. Tow my 32' about 4 or 5 times a year within the county. Why did I get a diesel? Best truck I've every had! Got mine when gas was more, now it's cheaper then diesel. Still the best truck I've ever had. Oil change about $50 at the dealer. My diesel will out last any gas engine out there with normal maintenance and general TLC. The best truck anyone could buy who is serious about a long term, strong tow vehicle. DODGE. Lol. No wine needed. .
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:47 AM   #16
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Heh... well, I don't need to blame my interest in the V6 turbodiesel Ram on the wine, just the fact that I couldn't quite figure out what ThePill was saying, and in fact attributed almost the opposite meaning.

I figure the Ram has a good shot at matching the Grand Cherokee's towing mileage, since the governing factor there will be frontal area. I like having the truck bed for dirty and/or smelly cargo, and have a perfectly good wagon (that's hopeless as a TV) so for now I look to half-tons as my first choice in TVs.

If Ram can put together a configuration with payload competitive with my dream truck, they'll be in the running for my business.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:55 AM   #17
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There is still a lot of wariness by my company over how big the desirability of diesels is in the US. Remember, we towing people are a subset of the population and percentage-wise, are much more diesel oriented than the general public.....and they are very expensive to produce. There was a USA Today article on Wednesday (I think it was Wed.) that spoke to the public appetite.

GM just announced the diesel Chevy Cruze last week...but it will be limited numbers at first...because the fear is that the market for small diesel cars is just about the same size as the Jetta sales numbers. It'll be interesting to watch these new announcements. GM's CEO has been quoted lately that "we haven't ruled out a diesel for the light duty trucks". Not sure what that means.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:23 AM   #18
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Heh... well, I don't need to blame my interest in the V6 turbodiesel Ram on the wine, just the fact that I couldn't quite figure out what ThePill was saying, and in fact attributed almost the opposite meaning.

I figure the Ram has a good shot at matching the Grand Cherokee's towing mileage, since the governing factor there will be frontal area. I like having the truck bed for dirty and/or smelly cargo, and have a perfectly good wagon (that's hopeless as a TV) so for now I look to half-tons as my first choice in TVs.

If Ram can put together a configuration with payload competitive with my dream truck, they'll be in the running for my business.

Basically what I am saying,,,Wine man.... Is dont just jump in with both feet before buying a diesel. It a differant animal. There are tons of things to consider,..So I brought some of them up. I have owned and drove diesels for over 13 years. I drive a lot. No office no 9-5...driving for a living in a way. Plus I have towed OVER 20,000 miles in less than 3 years. Diesel I NEED. Others mught want to explore and bite off more than they can chew. My added diesel to my truck was 7,000 dollar upgrade. Dont know what the dodge will be.

Either way,....if you make small trips, not good, the diesel likes to be worked and worked hard,...it need to get up to optimal temps.

When I purchased my First diesel in 1999, diesel was .88 cents a gallon. Plus I was averaging 100,000 miles in two years. The longevity of a gasser and resale would have killed me. So diesel was the choice. NOW, diesel is quite a bit higher and I try to not drive as much, a.k.a. motorcycle..I do worry about diesel failure due to EGR's, again because diesels are made to WORK.

On oil changes, on my 6.7 there are oil changes over 100.00. 14 QTS oil. Plus the filter.


Another side note, on any diesel, when you buy fuel keep your receipts...water in fuel could cost you upwards to 12,000 dollars for a fuel system replacement. It is a catastrophic failure. TIP: just buy from a high volume station and don't ever get fuel while the tanker is filling up the tanks. I also add a Fuel additive a cetain booster, just in case I do get bad diesel...Doesnt hurt to be safe. Getting stranded sucks.Its just added insurance.
Another Necessity I repeat a Necessity is fuel filter replacements...Do it every 20,000 miles religously. There are two of them...close to 130.00,..unless you do it yourself of course.

other things to consider is tire wear, thos diesel engines weigh a lot to hold all of that compression.....you will go through rubber faster.

Hopefully I made myself more clear.

Stream Safe,


SHane
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:48 PM   #19
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Shane, I thought you moved to Spokane . . hows the cold weather starts?
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