Dodge Ram 2500 Vs. Ford F250

[JimGolden]

Steve,

Pulling a little trailer like that doesn't allow the diesel to show it's advantage. You don't need the torque.

You should repeat the test with a 34 footer loaded to the gills. The half ton would be lucky to move it, whereas the diesel would still get 13mpg.

But, if you're not pulling a big load, the diesel's many advantages are just not needed. My buddy has a Ram Hemi with the cylinder deact and he gets 24mpg with it. My diesel has never gotten that much....21 is the best I've ever gotten, and I can barely scratch 20 with the new fuel.

My Ram is the 04 1/2, 305hp with 555 ft-lbs. I've had no problems with it at all. Just turn the key and drive. On dry pavement, with the 34 footer hitched up, if I hit it too hard, I'll light the tires up. OK, I could chip it and do all kinds of stuff...but if I can light them up now, what would 300 more hp do? I do want to put a Banks PowerPack on it after the warranty expires. It's nothing to pull 500hp and 800 ft-lbs out of one of these. That's a very mild mod build. But, it does really well now.

But if I weren't towing a big trailer, I'd get a Hemi half ton. Smaller, lighter, cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, easier to get fuel, etc. But I do tow a big trailer, and I'm keeping my Cummins!

[gaylejoe]

Boy, am I glad that I have a 2006 Dodge 2500 2WD. Hard combination to find since most of the trucks are 4WD. The 2006 was the last of the good mileage diesels and I know a few people who have been trying to find a nice 2006 for sale. I couldn't be happier with mine.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by JimGolden

Steve,

Pulling a little trailer like that doesn't allow the diesel to show it's advantage. You don't need the torque.

You should repeat the test with a 34 footer loaded to the gills. The half ton would be lucky to move it, whereas the diesel would still get 13mpg.

But, if you're not pulling a big load, the diesel's many advantages are just not needed. My buddy has a Ram Hemi with the cylinder deact and he gets 24mpg with it. My diesel has never gotten that much....21 is the best I've ever gotten, and I can barely scratch 20 with the new fuel.

My Ram is the 04 1/2, 305hp with 555 ft-lbs. I've had no problems with it at all. Just turn the key and drive. On dry pavement, with the 34 footer hitched up, if I hit it too hard, I'll light the tires up. OK, I could chip it and do all kinds of stuff...but if I can light them up now, what would 300 more hp do? I do want to put a Banks PowerPack on it after the warranty expires. It's nothing to pull 500hp and 800 ft-lbs out of one of these. That's a very mild mod build. But, it does really well now.

But if I weren't towing a big trailer, I'd get a Hemi half ton. Smaller, lighter, cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, easier to get fuel, etc. But I do tow a big trailer, and I'm keeping my Cummins!

Jim,

My point of my post was, and obviously you missed it, is that I've been reading on here as long as I've been on here, that Diesels make way better mileage than gasoline trucks, and that is NOT TRUE of the newer Diesels. My gasoline truck made one to two miles per gallon better mileage than this '08 Diesel does under the same driving conditions.

Driving on the interstate at 70 MPH, the gas truck got 18mpg, the Diesel 16.4. Pulling the 17er, the gas truck got 15, the Diesel gets 13.4. Doing 80, the gas truck got 15/16, the Diesel gets 13.

No, I have not pulled a 34 footer, nor do I intend to. I haven't even pulled our 6500 pound 25er yet, but pulling the same small 17er at the same speeds, the gasoline truck got better mileage. I'm almost afraid to see what the Diesel does pulling the 25er at this point.

[Safari-Rick]

Gee,
I'm getting 18 mpg in Los Angeles and 20.7 on the freeways. (and sometimes better!) with my 6.7L TD.

Towing to Yosemite and all other places I'm getting 15-16 towing my 25 Safari with stuff in the P/U bed.

I guess the other "diesel" needed a tuneup.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by Safari-Rick

Gee,
I'm getting 18 mpg in Los Angeles and 20.7 on the freeways. (and sometimes better!) with my 6.7L TD.

Towing to Yosemite and all other places I'm getting 15-16 towing my 25 Safari with stuff in the P/U bed.

I guess the other "diesel" needed a tuneup.

Rick,
What year model is your truck, and does it have the DPF (Diesel particulat filter) and the EGR system?

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by SteveH

I just traded an '07 1/2 ton GMC pickup (5.3L gas) for an '08 3/4 ton GMC Duramax Diesel 4X4. Took a short trip to New Mexico to pickup a small trailer (17 footer), and AVERAGED 14.9 MPG on the entire trip. The best mileage running empty was 16.8, and the worst pulling the little trailer was 13.6. This is actual mileage dividing miles driven by gallons used, not by the dashboard computer, which by the way, agrees.

This stuipid thing gets WORSE fuel mileage than my 1/2 ton gas truck did.

So, let's see now.....the fuel is about 20 cents a gallon more expensive, and it gets worse mileage????

Sorry folks, I just don't see any savings here. On the contrary, it will cost more to drive this Diesel. The only good thing is, it does have lots more power.

How many miles on the deezul?
It will get better w/more miles.
I suffered the same question when we first got our diesel...not now!
24 mpg unladed highway
15mpg towing with heavy loads...
Never faster than about 73 mph...
A diesel will improve with miles, gassers tend to degrade...

I can't ever see going gasser again, the diesel is such a pleasure to tow with.

Any how, back to the OP; small block and HD truck just seems like an oxymoron to me.
If you are thinking of stepping up to a 3/4 ton, go BB gasser, or better yet-deezul!

Bill

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by BillTex

How many miles on the deezul?
It will get better w/more miles.
I suffered the same question when we first got our diesel...not now!
24 mpg unladed highway
15mpg towing with heavy loads...
Never faster than about 73 mph...
A diesel will improve with miles, gassers tend to degrade...

I can't ever see going gasser again, the diesel is such a pleasure to tow with.


Bill

Bill,

It's an '08 GMC Duramax and it has 55K miles on it.

[BillTex]

Steve, I guess the first question that comes to mind is; how hard were you pushin’ it? I have spent quite a bit of time foolin’ around with speeds and RPM. Vern did a great analysis of same with his Cummins a little while back also (Cummins are known for their excellent fuel efficiency).
Diesels make peak power around 1800 RPM. Peak efficiency will be at slightly less than that. Try to cruise in this range.
Diesels make power differently than gas engines. Drive the diesel like a Harley; roll into it, don’t stomp on it like a gasser.
Check the obvious items also; fuel filter, tires, etc.
I think one good pull will convince you that you have made the right choice. Hook up the big trailer and go! You’ll forget that little ½ ton real quick!

Bill

[tslanier]

What is the thinking and experience on here relative to adding a chip for better mileage?

[Wingeezer]

Originally Posted by SteveH

I just traded an '07 1/2 ton GMC pickup (5.3L gas) for an '08 3/4 ton GMC Duramax Diesel 4X4. Took a short trip to New Mexico to pickup a small trailer (17 footer), and AVERAGED 14.9 MPG on the entire trip. The best mileage running empty was 16.8, and the worst pulling the little trailer was 13.6. This is actual mileage dividing miles driven by gallons used, not by the dashboard computer, which by the way, agrees.

This stuipid thing gets WORSE fuel mileage than my 1/2 ton gas truck did.

So, let's see now.....the fuel is about 20 cents a gallon more expensive, and it gets worse mileage????

Sorry folks, I just don't see any savings here. On the contrary, it will cost more to drive this Diesel. The only good thing is, it does have lots more power.

Something strange going on! We just moved from a 1/2 ton gas GMC Sierra pulling a 4000# (low profile, light wt) trailer to a 3/4 ton diesel GMC Sierra pulling a 7300# AS, and I am getting at least 10-15% better fuel mileage with the new setup. And as you say - much more hauling power.


Brian.

[JimGolden]

Jim,

My point of my post was, and obviously you missed it, is that I've been reading on here as long as I've been on here, that Diesels make way better mileage than gasoline trucks, and that is NOT TRUE of the newer Diesels. My gasoline truck made one to two miles per gallon better mileage than this '08 Diesel does under the same driving conditions.

Driving on the interstate at 70 MPH, the gas truck got 18mpg, the Diesel 16.4. Pulling the 17er, the gas truck got 15, the Diesel gets 13.4. Doing 80, the gas truck got 15/16, the Diesel gets 13.

No, I have not pulled a 34 footer, nor do I intend to. I haven't even pulled our 6500 pound 25er yet, but pulling the same small 17er at the same speeds, the gasoline truck got better mileage. I'm almost afraid to see what the Diesel does pulling the 25er at this point.



I still maintain this is not an apples to apples comparison. A half ton truck with a gas V8 weighs probably 3000 lbs less than a big 3/4 ton diesel. The 1/2 ton has five or six lug semi floater hubs with smaller bearings; which means less rolling resistance. Everything on a 3/4 ton HD or 1 ton (usually not much difference between them other than springs) (deeper frame, full floater axles, 8 lug hubs heavy bearings, etc) is made heavier which results in more weight and rolling resistance.

A fair comparison is take a 3/4 ton HD truck from whichever brand you like, and try one of their diesels vs. one of their gas engines. In this case, the diesel is always going to win.

But the field is wide open. You can pull a 25' stream quite happily with a 1/2 ton gasser. On flat ground, you might come close to breaking even. Anything smaller than that, you're definitely going to either break even or beat the diesel.

The diesel will only win the fuel mileage debate against a modern V8 gasser with cylinder deact if the trucks are the same size (like a diesel Jeep Liberty vs. a gasser...my gasser gets 18mpg, the diesels do 28mpg); or pulling a big load. At least that's my opinion.

The guys that pull the 34 footers and get 17 mpg...my hat's off to you. I've never gotten that well. My trailer grosses just under 5 tons, and my wife doesn't leave anything behind, so I'm probably running her at full weight. I get 13mpg on the super slab and 11 mpg in the big mountains. I have a crew cab, long bed, 4wd. But, I defy anybody with a half ton truck to even begin to pull this rig through the mountains.

Truthfully, if I had a smaller trailer, I'd look really hard at a hemi half ton Ram. I think it's a great truck. 390hp, good torque, but I think I'll just get a Charger instead

If you really were inclined, it's not that hard to remove all the particulate stuff off a newer truck either. The info is out there.

But different stroke for different folks. Those who like gasoline, vroom vroom. Those who like oil burners. make some grunt. They're all good!

How 'bout a '65 Sport Fury with a heavily breathed on 447 V8 making 500hp and 500 ft-lbs? Yeah, I got one No hitch on it though....yet.

see ya on the road

[SteveH]

Jim,

One last time....there are reports all over this forum of Diesels getting 20-22 MPG running empty, and they have to be 3/4 toners because there are no 1/2 ton Diesels. My gasser only got 18.5, best case.

The Diesel I now have only gets 16.5 MPG, best case.

So, my gasser got better fuel mileage than my Diesel.

[woppa 4]

After a 7000 M trip (Apr 2008) TV 2008 Tdr L V8; Tw a very LW F Finder. I became more concerned about the limited range after TO; than I was about Ms per G etc. We traveled the SW region through some extremely desolate area's. Upon return; a new D was parked in my G on day 1. Now I have twice the R after TO. I have trouble understanding the 1or 2 etc mileage debate when pulling a HE AS. I think each person should determined their own need's an act accordingly.Myself I want more rather than less, should the need arise.Mel

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by SteveH

Jim,

One last time....there are reports all over this forum of Diesels getting 20-22 MPG running empty, and they have to be 3/4 toners because there are no 1/2 ton Diesels. My gasser only got 18.5, best case.

The Diesel I now have only gets 16.5 MPG, best case.

So, my gasser got better fuel mileage than my Diesel.

Steve, what we are trying to tell you is something is wrong with your diesel...get it checked...injectors, fuel filter...
You are the anomoly, which would indicate some problem.

Bill

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Steve, what we are trying to tell you is something is wrong with your diesel...get it checked...injectors, fuel filter...
You are the anomoly, which would indicate some problem.

Bill

Bill,

At first I thought the same thing. Not knowing much about them, I went to a Diesel forum, Dieselplace.com , and started reading. Seems everyone with the late 07's, 08's, and 09's are getting virtually the same mileage.

Then, the people who have gone to the trouble of removing the Diesel particulate filter, blocked off the EGR system, and bought a reprogrammer to clear the error codes, are getting better mileage. However, this could void the warranty, and is against the law because you are removing emissions control equipment.

[BillTex]

Steve, keep in mind; a lot of those Folks on the diesel forum are chipped out, tire smokin' gear heads...they are all about hp/tq and a lot of them drag race their Durmax powered trucks. Literally.
Seems to me the Folks here, who are using their diesel trucks in a more sane manner, are reporting different performance figures. So again, a complete diagnosis from a Chev dealer may be in order.

Having said that, the reason I pulled the trigger in 06 was that was the last year with none of the new emmissions, and the first year with the 6 spd Alli.
Many would argue, this is the best year DA to purchase.

I would think the next gen of diesels will have all this emissions/ efficiency figured out even better. This urea thing seems...1/2 a#$ed? We'll see how the new Ford does...haven't heard any reports yet. OTH, Ford has never been as efficient as Cummins and Duramax....but let's see if someone with a new Ford chimes in after break-in.

I hate to play Monday morning QB...but if you purchased your truck used (I think you did?) perhaps you should have looked in to this first...and looked for an 06 if efficiency was you major objective...
Many Folks will go as far back as a 98 Cummins to get the 12 valve (no longer made), the most efficent of pick me up deezuls.

I guess my point is; research before you buy..


A couple of things you might do now to improve mileage (you sure won't need any more power!);

• Bio diesel...many Folks report much better mileage with bio.
• A free flowing exhaust.
• I would stay away from chips...most do nothing for efficiency, but profit the chip seller.

I don't believe either of these will effect your 100k mile warranty (read first!). IIRC I looked in to running bio and it was allowed up to a certain %...just not readily avaliable in the NE. As noted; one good pull with a heavy load, and you will know you made the right choice.

Keep us posted, this is an interesting topic.

Bill