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Old 04-02-2019, 05:48 PM   #1
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Do I really need that much??

We just bought the 25FB FC this weekend. The AS dealer told us we should look for a TV that could tow around 11,000 lbs!!! That seems like a LOT! Is the dealer correct in recommending that amount for a trailer that is 7300lbs? I know that we want something that pulls more than the max amount of the trailer, but 3700? We eventually will put in a tankless hot water heater and a couple of solar panels. But if we found a truck that pulled 9500 lbs, is that enough for the trailer and upgrades and 2-4 people in the truck? Sorry for these "newbie" questions, but new to it "all"--owning a truck (well, drove my parents truck when I was growing up in Texas but never towed the boat), owning a trailer, and towing (anything bigger than my folk's flatbed utility trailer)! TIA!!
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:00 PM   #2
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This is a controversial topic. The dealer was not very clear at all by saying 11,000#. Did he mean GCWR? Meaning the total weight of the truck, Airstream, passengers and gear? I believe you will find most would agree that a solid 1/2 ton truck would be fine.

I would say you need to watch the payload. With my wife and me, the FC25FB tongue weight, a lightly loaded truck bed, and heavily loaded camper, I would want 1600# of payload. Then I would add the weight of each additional passenger. Two more 150# passengers, and I would want 1900# of payload. My F250 truck has 2150# of payload, so I feel good about four passengers, loaded truck bed and loaded camper.

Others will say just stay under axle ratings. Using this method, an F150 or equivalent 1/2 ton truck, will be fine with full passengers, truckbed load, and a heavily loaded Airstream, with a weight distribution hitch.

You just need to decide if you want to stay below payload, axle ratings, or GCWR. This is a confusing topic and you will get many replies.
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Old 04-02-2019, 07:29 PM   #3
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The way we decided how big a TT we could tow. Even though Ford's charts say we can tow over 11,000#, the payload capacity of our truck (on the door sticker) is 1895#. We, combined, weigh about 400#, leaving 1495#. I put a topper on the truck, about 200#, leaving about 1295#. We carry a couple of hundred pounds of "stuff" when camping, leaving about 1095#. We sometimes carry a portable boat we own, 150#, leaving 945# of available payload capacity.

Now, since tongue weight should be between 10% to 15% of trailer weight, with a payload capacity of 945#, we could tow a trailer with a GVWR (not dry) of between 6300# and 9450#. Since the 9450# would be at the bleeding edge, we decided to stay at or below the 6300# number. The 2017 FC 23FB that we bought has a gvwr of 6000#.

The truck would have handled a 25' Airstream, but I would not have been comfortable that close to the limits.
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Old 04-02-2019, 08:12 PM   #4
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Controversial, no. More like a lot of misinformed folks posting as experts.

120% times 7300 lbs is a bit less than 9000 lbs. A tow capacity of 11000 lbs is the overkill engineering team talking. There is a Ford F150 with a tow package that is rated about that level. Maybe that's what the dealer was thinking.

The 120% is what people think is needed. It's not. You need the 7300 lbs that the loaded trailer will weigh. A little excess capacity is not a bad thing. A lot is not needed.

However, lower capacity vehicles often have low payload capacity. Lots of options will lower the payload. You need enough payload to carry the tongue weight, all the passengers beyond the driver, and all the gear you will carry in the tow vehicle including the hitch and any after purchase additions like a bed liner, cover, bumper or tools/spares. Fire wood is very heavy.

Tongue weight of a 25 is close to 1200 lbs. The weight distribution hitch will move about 10-15% of the tongue weight to the rear axle of the trailer, so you will save some there.

There are standard 1/2 ton pickups, heavy duty 1/2 ton trucks, and tow package 1/2 ton vehicles. The capacity ratings will vary on each and the payload changes with the option mix. Yellow sticker on the door gives you the rating fo that specific truck.

Folks like to buy 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. They are big rough and tough. You may find one to be your final choice. The primary reason is when more payload is required. The problem with these trucks is that you feel less of what is happening with your tow. The added weight dampens out the rig movement. That same weight is harder to stop and takes more fuel to run.

Since your son will drive, you might conside what is reasonable to handle as a day to day vehicle.

So, first - do the research. There are a lot of threads on vehicle choice, best vehicle, how to make a smaller vehicle work, and similar subjects. Read about ten. Make a list of questions and ask them. You do not need to get a truck. SUVs will tow a trailer too. However, more trucks that fit your needs may be available.

Hitches are same thing. Do your research (10 threads) and plan to have to adjust whatever you get. It won't be right until the rig is loaded and tested.

Now - do not believe anything you read here or anywhere else until you prove it for yourself. Only you are responsible when towing, so understand what you are doing and why you are doing it. It gets easier from there.

Good luck to you and your investigation. Chase those smiles. Pat
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Old 04-02-2019, 08:18 PM   #5
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What kind of TV do you actually want? Things like payload and gross axle weights and the differential and the hitch rating count for a lot, And the tow packages with the mirrors and all. If you want a pickup truck style it is actually pretty easy to find some that will pull it just fine. And there are a lot out there that are not built or equipped to tow well. In either a half ton or 3/4 ton in gas or diesel. If you want a van or SUV then there are fewer choices. I thing just looking at the tow ratings may not give you what you need to know. So no, I do not think you "need that much". But you do need to pay attention to selecting the right TV. I guess I just do not think the tow rating is the correct variable to be looking at and certainly not the only variable to go by.
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Old 04-02-2019, 08:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NellBell View Post
We just bought the 25FB FC this weekend. The AS dealer told us we should look for a TV that could tow around 11,000 lbs!!! That seems like a LOT! Is the dealer correct in recommending that amount for a trailer that is 7300lbs? I know that we want something that pulls more than the max amount of the trailer, but 3700? We eventually will put in a tankless hot water heater and a couple of solar panels. But if we found a truck that pulled 9500 lbs, is that enough for the trailer and upgrades and 2-4 people in the truck? Sorry for these "newbie" questions, but new to it "all"--owning a truck (well, drove my parents truck when I was growing up in Texas but never towed the boat), owning a trailer, and towing (anything bigger than my folk's flatbed utility trailer)! TIA!!
For selecting a tow vehicle, what I did: Plan on worse case for each weight.

1. PAYLOAD
Each time the trailer is loaded it will be a different gross weight. I plan on worse case. I look at the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the trailer and plan on that as being the maximum that will ever be towed. Tongue weight should be between 10% to 15% of the gross trailer weight. I assumed 15% of trailers GVWR.

I figured one passenger for each seat position (5 in my crew cab), though most of the time there is only two of us, there have been 4. And I'm almost double the average weight the manufacturer uses, so you have to sort that out for your family + visitors.

I weighed the things I carry in the bed (generator, tool box, water tank, sewer tote, etc.). The stuff in the bed can be as low as 150 lbs, but can be 300 or more.

Then there is the hitch, torsion bars, brackets, etc that weigh about 100 lbs.

(trailer tongue, hitch & bars, passengers, stuff in bed and glove box, added truck accessories = payload)

2. COMBINED WEIGHT
I added GVWR of truck and GVWR of the trailer. The sum of those two numbers should not exceed gross combined weight rating of the truck.



3. If you stay within the ratings of the two above, you should also be within the ratings of axles, tires, etc. If you happen to exceed an axle or tire load rating or tongue weight is to much, you can shift weight within the vehicles to balance load. And/or you can adjust the tension on the hitch bars to shift weight off of the rear truck axle on to the other axles of both vehicles. Anything that possibly can goes into the trailer while towing.

ps> notice my signature below. I am towing my 34' with a half ton truck with the maximum trailering package. The math works as long as I move EVERYTHING out of the truck and into the trailer. Last week I towed about 700 miles from FL to NC. I had a generator in the truck bed, along with some tools that I normally do not carry. The truck was about 200 lbs over the GVRW and maximum payload capacity. I had no issues.
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Old 04-02-2019, 09:09 PM   #7
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ps 2>
My post above was for what I did figuring which truck I needed to tow my 25', which is a lot lighter than your 25'. I did not have my 34' at the time.

Towing my 34', only two passengers allowed, and move EVERYTHING ELSE into the trailer makes it possible.

I did not mention "tow rating" or "tow capacity" because that is a tricky issue. As payload is added to the tow vehicle, its tow capacity decreases. Vehicle manufacturers calculate maximum tow capacity with only the driver as payload. If another 200 lbs of payload is added to the tow vehicle then its tow capacity is reduced by that same weight. This pound for pound reduction continues to a point that the combined weight of the vehicles is below the GCWR of the tow vehicle AND when the GVWR of the truck limits its ability to carry additional payload and when additional weight is remove from the trailer.
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NellBell View Post
We just bought the 25FB FC this weekend. The AS dealer told us we should look for a TV that could tow around 11,000 lbs!!! That seems like a LOT! Is the dealer correct in recommending that amount for a trailer that is 7300lbs? I know that we want something that pulls more than the max amount of the trailer, but 3700? We eventually will put in a tankless hot water heater and a couple of solar panels. But if we found a truck that pulled 9500 lbs, is that enough for the trailer and upgrades and 2-4 people in the truck? Sorry for these "newbie" questions, but new to it "all"--owning a truck (well, drove my parents truck when I was growing up in Texas but never towed the boat), owning a trailer, and towing (anything bigger than my folk's flatbed utility trailer)! TIA!!
Keep it simple. A good V8 half ton, or any 3/4 ton, will get the job done. Make sure you have at least 400 hp. Margin is good. Camping sucks when you have to agonize over weight and balance. Its not an airplane.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:04 AM   #9
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I'm of the Ford Super Duty crowd. F250 towing a 30 foot International.

I towed a Flying Cloud 25 footer with an F150 just fine.

Then I got an F250 and towed the same trailer before moving to the 30 footer.

For me, no comparison, F250 won hands down.

My brother, sarcastic as he is, "a Prius can tow an airstream, just not for long, or very far"
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:11 AM   #10
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Keep it simple. A good V8 half ton, or any 3/4 ton, will get the job done. Make sure you have at least 400 hp. Margin is good. Camping sucks when you have to agonize over weight and balance. It’s not an airplane.
A high horsepower engine may not be strong enough, if the gear ratios are to high (for fuel economy).
IMO, a proper lower gear ratio (for pulling) is just as important as engine strength.

In my truck's owners manual there is a chart that demonstrates this. Changing the axle's gear ratio can change a vehicle's ability to pull a trailer by multiple tons with the exact same engine.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:47 AM   #11
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So, as you can see, there are lots of opinions on tow rigs. I have a 27 FC FB which, according to AS specs comes in fully loaded at 7500 lbs. I towed for the last three years with a '09 Silverado 1/2 ton, crew cab short bed 4x4 with the 5.3l small block. It was rated to tow around 9500 lbs and it was fine, except, when going up steep grades, say 8% or greater, I would be going around 30-35 mph. That gets old quick. And I'm pretty sure we were overloaded on payload, which I believe manifested itself with premature bearing problems in the front wheels, and some braking issues, (chattering shuddering needing the rotors turned more often) and one particularly memorable white knuckle downhill scare into Medford (S OR) that ended up with a unscheduled stop at Les Schwab to fix the brakes before going on to the Redwoods.

Anyway we are signed up for a Caravan next fall in Kentucky, which is a long way from OR. So last week we went shopping for a new truck. If I had won the lottery I would have brought home a new F1250 diesel. But th extra 9k entry price for the diesel and increased maintenance cost had me rethinking the deal. We ended up with the 150, echoboost. Rated to tow. 12,700 lbs, payload just N of 1600 lbs, it should do the trick. It's much more capable than the 09 Chevy, and a friend has one towing his 25 ft FC. So, I would say take a look at the F150 ecoboost, and see what you think. Good luck.

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Old 04-03-2019, 08:00 AM   #12
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Make sure you have at least 400 hp.

My 40' motorhome that weighed 15000 pounds didn't have 400 HP, but it had a boatload of torque!
I just looked at the Ford F-150 ecoboost V-6 that folks here like a lot. It does not have 400 hp.
My 5.7 L. Tundra does not have 400 hp. and it tows great!
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:39 AM   #13
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Never push the limits of your tow vehicle. You will never be happy with the results. Think payload and gross combined vehicle weight.
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Old 04-03-2019, 10:06 AM   #14
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There is a lot to think about when looking for a TV. There is the towing capacity, wheel base, gear ratio, payload etc... and of course, how it relates to the AS.

Example: Our AS Int'l 25 GVWR is 6300lb with TW of 740lb - Our TV is a F-150 FX4 super crew with wheel base of 157 in. with a max tow package 11300lb, GVWR 7700, GCVWR 17000, engine is 3.5 eco boost with 3.73 rear end gear ratio - complete with tow/haul mode we have great gas mileage and no fear on them dar hills.

Do not skimp on the TV capability - it's your life we are talking about.
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Old 04-03-2019, 10:52 AM   #15
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My 40' motorhome that weighed 15000 pounds didn't have 400 HP, but it had a boatload of torque!
I just looked at the Ford F-150 ecoboost V-6 that folks here like a lot. It does not have 400 hp.
My 5.7 L. Tundra does not have 400 hp. and it tows great!
Your Tundra is probably close to 400 hp.
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:15 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by drbrick View Post
There is a lot to think about when looking for a TV. There is the towing capacity, wheel base, gear ratio, payload etc... and of course, how it relates to the AS.

Example: Our AS Int'l 25 GVWR is 6300lb with TW of 740lb - Our TV is a F-150 FX4 super crew with wheel base of 157 in. with a max tow package 11300lb, GVWR 7700, GCVWR 17000, engine is 3.5 eco boost with 3.73 rear end gear ratio - complete with tow/haul mode we have great gas mileage and no fear on them dar hills.

Do not skimp on the TV capability - it's your life we are talking about.
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner! A Ford F150 with the "Heavy Duty Payload" option would be excellent for towing any Airstream. The problem is finding one of these unicorns on a dealer lot. You may have to special order one of these unicorns with the 3.73 gears. Here is one in Canada: https://www.hannafords.ca/vehicles/2...sale_class=New This dealer used to show payload stickers on each vehicle. I don't see the payload stickers anymore

The Heavy Duty Payload Package is not just the trailer towing package. Payload on an F150 with the Heavy Duty Payload Package should be in the F250 range, well over 2000#. I bought the F250 because I like its payload with the diesel, but this F150 was a close second.
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Old 04-03-2019, 01:12 PM   #17
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I don't know what your type of camping will require. Ultimately, that's the question to answer.

I do know what we use to move our 25FB around the country... it's a Tundra. For us it works great.

First off, 7,300 is the MAX weight of your Airstream. Same with us. We travel with a full fresh water tank, food, clothing, tools, etc.. We don't transport lead bars or gold ingots. When I weigh the trailer ready for camping it weighs between 6,600 and 6,800 lbs.

Second, there are lots of factors one might consider to size a truck properly. Most of us run out of payload before we run out of max trailer weight. I know that Tundra drivers like me do. If I had two, 200 lb teenagers in addition to my svelte wife and my lard butt I'd need to transport a bag of helium under the tonneau and I'd still be over weight on the truck.

For me with a 25' FB, I'd consider any truck with a gross trailer weight max rating of 9,000 or more (my Tundra is 9,500 since it has 4WD which knocks 500 off). I'd want a tongue weight rating at or very close to 1,000 lbs (the Tundra is 920 which I just make with careful loading... I'd like more buffer there). Then I'd estimate the payload I need and that will define your universe of choices. If you have a large family (defined as "total family weight", not just "number of noses"), carry two 3,000 watt generators or an electric scooter for each person or a competition barbecue smoker you may wind up with a truck that is rated to pull 11,000 pounds... but only because as trucks increase in size, power and cost there is generally a simultaneous increase in payload and towing ratings.
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Old 04-03-2019, 01:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
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My 40' motorhome that weighed 15000 pounds didn't have 400 HP, but it had a boatload of torque!
I just looked at the Ford F-150 ecoboost V-6 that folks here like a lot. It does not have 400 hp.
My 5.7 L. Tundra does not have 400 hp. and it tows great!
The special feature of the 375-hp Ecoboost is that it continues to make that 375 hp even as elevation increases, and when it does start to fall off it's still WAY ahead of a NA engine that made 375 hp at sea level. Forced induction is also the real reason so many dieselheads are in love with their HD pickups, NA diesels are slow and suffer the same power losses with altitude that NA gasoline engines do.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:18 PM   #19
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[QUOTE=PKI;2226711]

Folks like to buy 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. They are big rough and tough. You may find one to be your final choice. The primary reason is when more payload is required. The problem with these trucks is that you feel less of what is happening with your tow. The added weight dampens out the rig movement. That same weight is harder to stop and takes more fuel to run.

Good luck to you and your investigation. Chase those smiles. Pat


Hello Pat,



I do not concur w/above statement. Unless you have driven and towed with 3/4 or 1 tons your opinion is made w/o merit. Making claim w/o experience is nothing more than an opinion of the unknown.



However I would agree today,s 1/2 ton's set up correctly would handle this AS if driven safely and wisely.



Safe travels and best regards.
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:46 AM   #20
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[QUOTE=sbowman;2227126]
Quote:
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-- snip -- I would agree today,s 1/2 ton's set up correctly would handle this AS if driven safely and wisely. -- snip --

Yes, thank you for making this point. Pat
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