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Old 08-27-2021, 11:11 AM   #101
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Feather Lite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
You can reduce payload by getting a better truck for towing.
I'm not talking leather, entertainment systems, and gadgets.
The tow package will include an oil cooler, perhaps a different transmission, different rear gear, bigger radiator. You think you've maximized the payload by only having an AM radio then discover your payload is less than the King Ranch with the steer horns on the hood.
Ford's Aluminum Body saves around 700 LBs compared to a Steel Body! That is a huge amount which translate into more Payload capacity and better furl economy!
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Old 08-27-2021, 11:39 AM   #102
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Big Gulp Theory

Here is the new meaning of the "Big Gulp Theory!"
Remember when a 6 oz Coke was normal, then it grew, 12oz then 16oz and now the 32oz Big Gulp.
The same thing has happened to to our Houses/Pick Up Trucks and RVs and the stuff we bring with us to camp.
The reality is, you don't need a lot of the stuff you carry or the Size of the Trailer/Motor Homes. This also applies to the Tow Vehicles! My Dad had a 1961 Ford Galaxie with a 6 cylinder Gas engine and 3 speed standard transmission to tow his 22 foot Airstream from coast to coast.
I find it amazing that today everyone wants a 1/2- 3/4 Ton Pick Up! Check out what Canada uses to tow AS.
Back in the day, the RVs "King of the Road" was the International Harvester- Travelall or the Chev/GMC Suburban. Though vehicles would be considered to small today. Today, most PU don't fit inside a normal Garage. I hard to understand why you would want a Huge Ass PU, that you use say 10% of the time to Tow, while you have to PUT-UP with all of its negatives characteristics, High Entry, Rough Ride, No Garage, Costs, Poor Traction, Poor Overall performance etc just to mention a few, the remaining 90% of the time. We all seen these "Monster Trucks" taking up a 1 1/2 parking spots, ridiculous!
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Old 08-27-2021, 02:00 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailorguy View Post
Here is the new meaning of the "Big Gulp Theory!"
Remember when a 6 oz Coke was normal, then it grew, 12oz then 16oz and now the 32oz Big Gulp.
The same thing has happened to to our Houses/Pick Up Trucks and RVs and the stuff we bring with us to camp.
The reality is, you don't need a lot of the stuff you carry or the Size of the Trailer/Motor Homes. This also applies to the Tow Vehicles! My Dad had a 1961 Ford Galaxie with a 6 cylinder Gas engine and 3 speed standard transmission to tow his 22 foot Airstream from coast to coast.
I find it amazing that today everyone wants a 1/2- 3/4 Ton Pick Up! Check out what Canada uses to tow AS.
Back in the day, the RVs "King of the Road" was the International Harvester- Travelall or the Chev/GMC Suburban. Though vehicles would be considered to small today. Today, most PU don't fit inside a normal Garage. I hard to understand why you would want a Huge Ass PU, that you use say 10% of the time to Tow, while you have to PUT-UP with all of its negatives characteristics, High Entry, Rough Ride, No Garage, Costs, Poor Traction, Poor Overall performance etc just to mention a few, the remaining 90% of the time. We all seen these "Monster Trucks" taking up a 1 1/2 parking spots, ridiculous!
Yes!

Of course, weve seen the ultimate of the bigger is better crowda Peterbuilt towing a giant 5th wheel toy hauler with a Smart car as the toy.

I have seen full sized pickups that tower over our Tundra. Maybe the driver feels all powerful in them. I have seen a few early 1970s Fords that look smaller than the 1990 Nissan 4 cylinder truck we did major 4 wheeling in years ago. When trailers, including Airstreams gained weight, much like Americans, bigger trucks were necessary, but things seem out of hand. The OP asked about 1/2 ton trucks and I gave my experience.

The Tundra has not been pushed down hills going around corners, but maybe that depends on the driver or the trailer brakes may need adjusting. I wish Toyota had paid more attention to its truck lines in recent years. More gears, better gas mileage, would be desirable. They did put in a bigger gas tank. But any more dollars Ive spent on gas compared to the very few dollars Ive spent on repairs, come out to our advantage.

Years ago some of us speculated that Toyota overbuilt the suspension and power train to prepare for a 3/4 ton version or maybe a diesel option. Neither happened. When the new version comes out it surely will cost a mint, so a well taken care of used one would be a good deal.
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Old 08-27-2021, 02:14 PM   #104
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When I'm in my Tacoma and I see a big Tundra tower over me I guess the driver feels powerful. See how that works.
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Old 08-27-2021, 02:33 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt who View Post
When I'm in my Tacoma and I see a big Tundra tower over me I guess the driver feels powerful. See how that works.
And when Im in my Subaru and a Tacoma pulls up next to me, I shake with fear..
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Old 08-28-2021, 06:04 AM   #106
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I went through the same analysis a year ago when I bought my AS FC 28. I had a GMC Yukon with a door sticker payload of 1,300+ lbs. When you add in the tongue weight of the AS, the WD hitch, people and gear, it was obvious that I was over the payload capacity unless my wife and I lost a lot of weight. And forget about taking grandkids, the dog or anyone else on the trip. I started looking at 1/2 pickup trucks from GMC, Ford and RAM. The sales brochures indicated that the max payload on each of these trucks was possibly doable for my situation. As I looked on the lots at the actual door stickers, they were just slightly more than my Yukon. That was an oh crap moment. Then I talked with the CAN AM guys and they suggested one stripped down model of the F150 that could work without modifications. I pursued that option and found that to get to a more reasonable payload I had to settle for a very, very basic truck and even with that it was just a marginal improvement on payload. SO I started looking at 3/4 ton trucks. I started out with a bias toward Ford and GMC. I liked the Ford trucks better than GMC but I get a great family discount with GMC so it was my first choice. I drove the Ford and GMC 3/4 ton trucks and came away with knowing that they would be great tow vehicles but they were very rough for daily driving, which is what I would use them for most of the time. And neither one fit in my garage. I then looked at the RAM and it blew my mind. It was much more luxurious, drove much better and had the towing capacity that I wanted. It also fit in my garage. My wife has a Lexus RX and we have driven a new Lexus GX as a loaner car from Lexus and the RAM 3/4 ton truck drives much smoother and it is much quieter in the cabin. We choose driving the RAM over the Lexus for every day use. Gas mileage is obviously much less and I will admit parking in tight areas is more difficult.
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Old 08-28-2021, 06:19 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
https://www.rvlifemag.com/towing-hal...e-quarter-ton/

Read this before making a decision. This helped me a great deal.

I tow a 28’ with an F150 max payload, and a Propride Hitch. It is perfectly level. Rides wonderfully. Tows marvelously. Plenty of power.

The only thing I would recommend is putting a roadmaster suspension system on the F150. Some recommend Bilstein shocks. I put on 20” tires which increase the rear axle weight rating nearly 300lbs.

I get 17 to 18mpg for everyday driving. And 21 to 22mpg on the highway when not towing. I can get into the truck easily, and the bed of the truck is accessible.
We did the same with our Tundra. Tows great. You don’t need a 3/4 ton truck. The RAS is a game changer. The frame isn’t going to snap. The axle isn’t going to break in half. It’s a relatively small investment to add the RAS. A DIY project done in an hour or so.

The one thing that always makes me laugh is the fixation on payload and door stickers. Does adding a sun roof really make that much difference? Thick carpet? Well now we can’t tow anything! Too much fixation on the door stickers. After a hundred thousand miles of towing all over the west you’ll know if you’re in control of the truck or not.
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:07 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis C View Post
It sounds like the 1/2 ton truck is a realistic option IF you order one that is configured properly. Im guessing trucks like that arent typically found sitting on a dealership lot for sale. For those who own 1/2 ton trucks with the max tow and max payload packages, how do they ride compared to the standard 1/2 ton or compared to a 3/4 ton?
My neighbor got sold one from the dealership to tow a trailer with a riding lawn mower on it that he used for rentals. When was the last time you heard of a truck salesman over-sell towing capacity? LOL If I remember right it had 2600 pounds of payload. He took a ride in my 2017 GMC Denali 1 ton diesel and was shocked to find out that a 1-ton ride was a better ride than his heavy payload F150. He even had his wife take a ride to convince her to get rid of the heavy payload F150 and buy a standard F150. I rode in both and I do agree with him that my 1-ton rode better and I also rode in his NON-heavy payload F150 and rode better than my 1-ton but not by that much.
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:14 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailorguy View Post
Ford's Aluminum Body saves around 700 LBs compared to a Steel Body! That is a huge amount which translate into more Payload capacity and better furl economy!
Take a look at a steel body stripped down XLT F150 with 1800 pounds of payload and an aluminum body XLT configured the same and you do not see a 700-pound increase. That is because the lower the GVWR because other components of the trucks are now the limitation.
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:25 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
Take a look at a steel body stripped down XLT F150 with 1800 pounds of payload and an aluminum body XLT configured the same and you do not see a 700-pound increase. That is because the lower the GVWR because other components of the trucks are now the limitation.
Hi

With any of these trucks, if you look at the "best payload" version, it just keeps creeping up and up. Each year the marketing guys get to put out an ad proclaiming that this or that record has been broken.

Since you may be comparing a 5+ year old truck to a brand new one, doing any sort of A to B check is tough. They will *always* design to whatever target the marketing guys set.

My understanding is that the body its self saved about 400 to 500 pounds. They "found" a bit more here and there. It was a *very* extensive redesign. Many of the "comfort level" differences between the 150/250/350 became a lot less significant.

Bob
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:26 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
Take a look at a steel body stripped down XLT F150 with 1800 pounds of payload and an aluminum body XLT configured the same and you do not see a 700-pound increase. That is because the lower the GVWR because other components of the trucks are now the limitation.
Correct. Although they "marketed" initially a 700 pound decrease in overall weight, they didn't illuminate that much of that reduction was to the non- aluminum chassis components.

GM did the same thing in 2019...sort of. They announced that the overall truck was 400# lighter than its predecessor, but we only saw approximately 300# increase in payload.
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:32 AM   #112
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Tundra

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
Technology to me includes increasing payload, 8-10speed transmission, cooling, bigger brakes, and of course, mileage; not just electronics. They certainly could improve in these areas; we know they have the ability and money. Perhaps the 2022 will have some improvements; least that's what I am seeing on the new model?

From Edmonds article that stand out:
2021 Tundra-

Pros
Standard V8 power
Roomy rear seating
Standard Toyota Safety Sense driver safety and assist system
Highly capable off-road TRD models

Cons
No redesign since 2007
6 speed transmission
Below-average fuel economy
Stiffer ride than other trucks
Feels especially large when driven on tight, congested roads
Not as many customization possibilities compared to rivals
Low Payload

Review from this article:
"Great truck, horrible mileage
Earthsurfer63 ,12/18/2020
Limited 4dr Double Cab 4WD SB (5.7L 8cyl 6A)
Love this beast, but 13 mpg does suck. But I bought it for the longevity and reliability. Wish it had an inverter for 110"

Good news (maybe?) They are bringing out a new model in 2022 including a diesel option and 10speed trany, improved suspension and frame. If they do it right and also include better mileage, payload, and other "tow" improvements, along with consistent quality of the past, would be a winner.
My Brother in law while researching a new truck was told that the 22 Tundra will feature turbo 6 powertrains, no V8. Anyone else hear this?
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:40 AM   #113
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Big Gulp Solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailorguy View Post
Here is the new meaning of the "Big Gulp Theory!"
Remember when a 6 oz Coke was normal, then it grew, 12oz then 16oz and now the 32oz Big Gulp.
The same thing has happened to to our Houses/Pick Up Trucks and RVs and the stuff we bring with us to camp.
The reality is, you don't need a lot of the stuff you carry or the Size of the Trailer/Motor Homes. This also applies to the Tow Vehicles! My Dad had a 1961 Ford Galaxie with a 6 cylinder Gas engine and 3 speed standard transmission to tow his 22 foot Airstream from coast to coast.
I find it amazing that today everyone wants a 1/2- 3/4 Ton Pick Up! Check out what Canada uses to tow AS.
Back in the day, the RVs "King of the Road" was the International Harvester- Travelall or the Chev/GMC Suburban. Though vehicles would be considered to small today. Today, most PU don't fit inside a normal Garage. I hard to understand why you would want a Huge Ass PU, that you use say 10% of the time to Tow, while you have to PUT-UP with all of its negatives characteristics, High Entry, Rough Ride, No Garage, Costs, Poor Traction, Poor Overall performance etc just to mention a few, the remaining 90% of the time. We all seen these "Monster Trucks" taking up a 1 1/2 parking spots, ridiculous!
The above Post was meant to express my views of the RV Industry and how, in my opinion, it has gone crazy!
This has been fueled by both the RV Manufactures and the Auto Industry, both being greedy! This has resulted in RVs being way to big and heavy. We've all seen RVs struggling to fit into Campsites blocking the sun from your neighbors etc. If you get an opportunity to take a tour of the Airstream Factory, ask to see a example of their "European Model." They are similar in size to the 1960-70 USA Models. I wish I could buy one for use here! IMO, the popularity of the Class B+ Market and smaller Lite Weight Trailers is a direct result of people saying enough of these bigger RV. We got tired of the RV Industry "Supper Sizing" us, while also making poor quality RVs, so we bought a Oliver Elite 2 Trailer, which can be towed with a SUV, in our case a MB- GL450. BTW, we can carry two 60 lb Folding E Bikes, one on the back of the trailer and one inside the SUV, to take advantage of the payload capacity of each vehicle, along with other normal stuff. This does max out our Payload, which is fine.
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:44 AM   #114
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I was glad to be driving a Ram 2500 gas instead of something else that pushing the limits of the vehicle when I topped a hill and there was an accident in my lane. I was on a state highway going about 60 miles per hour when I topped the hill and there was an accident with the right lane blocked and part of the left lane. There also was a person leaning in the back seat of his car getting a child out of the car seat. I was able to jerk the steering wheel to the left and passed the accident using the part of the left lane and the shoulder. There was no way I had the stopping distance not to become part of the accident. There was a moment that I thought I was going to lose it but I believe excess capacity allowed me to recover and not become part of the accident.
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:45 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GettinAway View Post
The one thing that always makes me laugh is the fixation on payload and door stickers. Does adding a sun roof really make that much difference? Thick carpet? Well now we can’t tow anything! Too much fixation on the door stickers. After a hundred thousand miles of towing all over the west you’ll know if you’re in control of the truck or not.
The thing that makes me shake my head is when folks ignore the limits and warnings the engineers have put on anything that can be dangerous if misused. What do the designers and engineers know, anyway?

The reason that adding a sun roof makes a difference is because everyone is already looking at marginal tow vehicles to begin with.

All of these discussions simplify down to one question. "Will a marginal 1500 level vehicle do or must I get a capable 2500 level vehicle?"

You note that when someone is getting a 2500 or a 3500, no one is saying to leave off the bling.
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Old 08-28-2021, 08:06 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbo View Post
The thing that makes me shake my head is when folks ignore the limits and warnings the engineers have put on anything that can be dangerous if misused. What do the designers and engineers know, anyway?

The reason that adding a sun roof makes a difference is because everyone is already looking at marginal tow vehicles to begin with.

All of these discussions simplify down to one question. "Will a marginal 1500 level vehicle do or must I get a capable 2500 level vehicle?"

You note that when someone is getting a 2500 or a 3500, no one is saying to leave off the bling.
That's not necessarily true. Quite a few 2500 diesels can be close to the payload of a 1500 Maxtow. Ya gotta be careful and SPEC a truck, and order if you need to.
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Old 08-28-2021, 08:33 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
He is traveling and no access. Perhaps later. Here is an interesting article comparing the Hybrid and Lightening...

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/2022-fo...rboost-hybrid/
Update: The truck mentioned earlier is fairly well loaded he said. It is a 4x4 and does have the dual panel sun roof, and MaxTow package...still, 1500+ payload not bad...he is camping now, and says the AC being used at a beach in TX. The engine kicks on/off about every 15 min or so he says, but it is very quiet and runs around 900 rpms. Will see how long he likes after a few camping trips.

Here is his "option" list from his sticker:

EQUIPMENT GROUP 501A- 1,270.00
ŸLARIAT SERIES
ŸB&O SOUND SYSTEM, 8 SPKR
OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT/OTHER
3.5L POWERBOOST FULL HYBRID 3,300.00
HYBRID ELEC 10-SPD AUTO TRANS NO CHARGE
275/60R20 BSW ALL-TERRAIN NO CHARGE
3.73 ELECTRONIC LOCK RR AXLE NO CHARGE
7350# GVWR PACKAGE
FRONT LICENSE PLATE BRACKET NO CHARGE
50 STATE EMISSIONS NO CHARGE
FORD CO-PILOT 360 ASSIST 2.0 750.00
.CNCTD BLT-IN NAV (3-YR INC)
TWIN PANEL MOONROOF 1,495.00
LINER-TRAY STYLE-NO CARPET MAT NO CHARGE
PRO POWER ONBOARD - 7.2KW 750.00
MAX TRAILER TOW PACKAGE 1,995.00
.INTEGRATED TRAILER BRAKE CONT
MIRROR POWER TELE/GLASS/FOLD 250.00
FX4 OFF-ROAD PACKAGE 1,005.00
.SKID PLATES
20" SIX-SPOKE DARK ALLOY WHLS 1,395.00
360-DEGREE CAMERA PACKAGE 765.00
LARIAT SPORT APPEARANCE PKG 1,995.00
LEATHER BUCKET SEATS W/CONSOLE NO CHARGE
BEDLINER-TOUGHBED SPRAYIN*ACCY 595.00

PRICE INFORMATION
BASE PRICE $51,330.00
TOTAL OPTIONS/OTHER 15,565.00
___________
TOTAL VEHICLE & OPTIONS/OTHER 66,895.00
DESTINATION & DELIVERY 1,695.00
___________
TOTAL BEFORE DISCOUNTS 68,590.00
XLT/LAR COPILOT ASSIST - 250.00
LAR MID CHROME OR SPRT - 750.00
TOTAL SAVINGS - 1,000.00
$67,590.00 MSRP Total

24MPG City/HWY Not sure if he is getting this MPG. have asked his actual tow mpg and confirm his trailer size/tongue weight.

Update: his hitch weight on his SOB is 600lbs. His GVW is 8Klbs. He got 10.7 mpg round trip 400 miles.
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Old 08-28-2021, 08:57 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
I was glad to be driving a Ram 2500 gas instead of something else that pushing the limits of the vehicle when I topped a hill and there was an accident in my lane. I was on a state highway going about 60 miles per hour when I topped the hill and there was an accident with the right lane blocked and part of the left lane. There also was a person leaning in the back seat of his car getting a child out of the car seat. I was able to jerk the steering wheel to the left and passed the accident using the part of the left lane and the shoulder. There was no way I had the stopping distance not to become part of the accident. There was a moment that I thought I was going to lose it but I believe excess capacity allowed me to recover and not become part of the accident.
Similar experience 2 years ago with our 28' and 3/4T...its times like that experience, you appreciate the larger, heavier, TV. Could a smaller 1/2T or SUV safely handled like the larger TV?? I don't think so, but I am just glad we had the larger TV in that instant...and after when we discussed what had just happened and were glad we were safe! Wife and I both feel the 3/4T made a big difference in that instant.
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Old 08-28-2021, 09:34 AM   #119
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Analogy anyone ?

Some folks hike in sandals, others tennis shoes and some even bare feet and think it’s fine…… for them…..and perhaps is for their hiking style, distance, capability or tolerance.

At the end of the day, many miles and ups and downs, and what ever you end up stepping on around or over, most would prefer a proper fitted hiking �� boot……although bulkier.

After all, it’s your feet. ��
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Old 08-28-2021, 10:33 AM   #120
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Thank you so much, GypsyDad, this information helps me out a great deal.

In the Ford Towing Manual, the 3.5L PowerBoost Hybrid would have "available" Max Payload of 2120 lbs. Your friend's sticker has 1412 lbs. That 708 lb difference is what I am trying to account for, in terms of his options. My best guess is that the 4x4 option with the skid plates took a large chunk of that, along with the 3.73 axle. The 20" tires and the moonroof, sport appearance package? Maybe, not sure. Good choice to go with that 7.2kw Pro Power Onboard, which is THE PRIMARY reason I ordered one.

My order is the XLT with only two wheel drive, and as stripped down as much as possible. The only "splurges" in options, were all in electronic components, i.e. the 360 Degree Camera, the onboard scale with smart hitch.

I'll know for sure, only when the unit is finally delivered, which could take forever.
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