Diesel vs Gas Engine? Better MPG When Towing??

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Well sir my last kw with a 500 cat has 1.4 million miles, head never been off, original turbo and injectors, it was grossing 95 - 101,000 lbs all the time , my ford 7.3 190,00, no problems, my 07 ram with 6.7 , 6 speed auto, 110,000 miles never any problems, it got 12.5 mpg coast to coast.... my 17 2500 ram with 6.7 and 6 speed auto with 3.42 gears, pulls 1300 rpm at 63 mph, I bought the lifetime oil changes for $850 for synthetic oil...there is no such thing as too much money or too much horsepower......

Most of us don't drive kenworths. We're talking pickup trucks here.

[Zybane]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Most of us don't drive kenworths. We're talking pickup trucks here.

Or that these new diesel pickup trucks have $6,000 worth of emissions equipment with unknown reliability. The old diesels didn't have that worry.

My diesel Grand Cherokee went into limp mode due to clogged filter. That was not fun.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Zybane

Or that these new diesel pickup trucks have $6,000 worth of emissions equipment with unknown reliability. The old diesels didn't have that worry.

My diesel Grand Cherokee went into limp mode due to clogged filter. That was not fun.

My old 07 ram, 6.7 Cummings has same emission equipment as the big trucks , 110,000 miles ,never been in the shop, except for updates, isn't used as a grocery getter......:

[mojoe7009]

I can tell you, after 39 years as the General Manager for large automobile dealerships, the resale value of a diesel pickup, was and is, always higher as a percent of the original purchase price than a gas pickup. Technology has made them run cleaner, much quieter and get better fuel economy than ever before (remember the black, sooty smoke that you used to see coming from the tailpipes?) I, for one, am a diesel fan when pulling larger trailers and hauling heavy loads. My Classic is 10,000 pounds when fully loaded plus ProPride Hitch, generator, grill, additional supplies, me, my wife and my dog in the truck. My Ram 2500 diesel works for me and gives me a piece of mind (read safety margin) while on the road.
All that said, it is still a matter of personal preference and that's ok. That's why old Henry Ford decided to offer different colors other than black!

[leje]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Hmmm...since buying my F350 I don't think I've had to look at the sticker...

You wouldn't on a 350, but the F150 marketing can be misleading.

[leje]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Horsepower is the measure of the rate of doing work. Torque is not a measure of power. You can multiply torque with gearing. Can't multiply horsepower...

Torque is a measurement of the force needed to turn the crankshaft. In the case of an engine, that measurement is how many pounds of force are applied to turn the crank a distance of one foot (distance around a vector).

Horsepower = Torque x rpm / 5252

[wdkennedy]

The diesel vs gas arguments/advocacies go on.
It reminds me that while some prefer Mac's, others are in the Windows world.
There are some very good points made on both sides.
Some folks are not savvy about the engineering behind their vehicles and just want the classy looking ride that they will trade off in year two.
Check out discussions on tires/tyres. Now that is "where the rubber meets the road".

[Zybane]

I'm totally sold if you plan to drive A LOT of miles, and tow a heavy load, diesel pickup makes sense. Airstream's aren't heavy loads, and I don't drive a lot of miles. Hence I went gas.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by leje

Torque is a measurement of the force needed to turn the crankshaft. In the case of an engine, that measurement is how many pounds of force are applied to turn the crank a distance of one foot (distance around a vector).

Horsepower = Torque x rpm / 5252

right. A force applied AT a distance. Not a measure of work done. It's why we use a transmission.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

My old 07 ram, 6.7 Cummings has same emission equipment as the big trucks , 110,000 miles ,never been in the shop, except for updates, isn't used as a grocery getter......:

110,000 miles is still brand new. Especially for a CUMMINS

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Zybane

I'm totally sold if you plan to drive A LOT of miles, and tow a heavy load, diesel pickup makes sense. Airstream's aren't heavy loads, and I don't drive a lot of miles. Hence I went gas.

I think the more a person spends on a truck the less apt they are to complain about it.

[leje]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

I think the more a person spends on a truck the less apt they are to complain about it.

Countryboy this is not directed at you because I can't speak for your circumstances, but I also find that people who can't afford the diesel option confuse this inability with the diesel option being a bad option.

My truck was just under $67,000 MSRP, and if you're interested, I can go on a long rant about everything I don't like about it. I think people tend to rationalize their decisions because they don't want to believe they could have made a bad one, regardless of price.

[rodsterinfl]

Technology has improved both gas and diesels. Much of the choice is preference when considering towing. It also has something to do with price and model year. For example if someone shares, "I had a 2009 Ford F150 5.4L gas and it struggled to pull my 34' trailer." They probably mean the engine roared as the load would have been great. BUT they also compare all gas trucks to that one. Imagine the same trailer being pulled by a 2017 3.5 Ecoboost with max payload and twice the torque.

There are so many factors. Diesel engines have fewer advantages now compared to, for example, the ecoboost. UREA is a secondary cost, major repairs can be as much as replacing a gas engine, hig pressure injection systems and transmissions wear out even though the engines last and costs are thousands but they have superior torque, are noisier and the bigger trucks ride rougher. The gas is more a daily driver but again, each person makes their own decision. Brand has something to do with it too. Certain brand 1/2 tons have lower payload than others so if people are brand loyal, they have no choice but to go bigger on the truck. Also, gearing and design of engines on various brands is quite different look at peak torque RPM specs and peak HP at what RPM to get an idea of that engine roar or NOT when towing. The transmission will always shift to get that power when towing and the owner will live with the noise/experience when towing. This is an issue with gas engines but may have an impact on when people decide within a brand of gas/diesel, which is best for towing.

[Dexterpix]

People keep posting "higher maintenance cost" on a diesel engine. I have had a CUMMINS diesel in three trucks since 2000. I had each truck till 200k before trading in for a new on. I currently have 130k on my 2009 2500 Ram. I don't know what "higher" maintenance cost I am paying. Yes an oil change requires 3 gallons of oils compared to 1 1/2 gallons for gas, but my oil change interval is longer. I change by hours run, not miles. I average 6 months between changes so twice a year. I run full synthetic oil and would regardless of gas or diesel. I change the fuel filter with every change, not required but I always have. Other than oil I have never replaced any other part that was directly related to the diesel engine. Parts replaced where the wear items on the truck. I also have only ever had to do 1 brake job on any of these truck usually at about 125-140k. My current truck is getting new fronts this spring. I don't have any real world experience that a diesel engine has higher cost than and average gas engine. If you believe an extra 25-50 buck on an oil change twice a year is "high cost" than we see cost differently.

My wife corrected me we have 133k on "her" truck. She drives it as her daily driver.

Joe D

[tjdonahoe]

MOJoe 7009, I agree, very well written....

[jwgreen]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

My old 07 ram, 6.7 Cummings has same emission equipment as the big trucks , 110,000 miles ,never been in the shop, except for updates, isn't used as a grocery getter......:

My truck has a 6.7 CUMMINS engine built in Columbus, IN USA. There is no letter "G" in the manufacturers name. Company was started by Clessie CUMMINS.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by leje

Countryboy this is not directed at you because I can't speak for your circumstances, but I also find that people who can't afford the diesel option confuse this inability with the diesel option being a bad option.

My truck was just under $67,000 MSRP, and if you're interested, I can go on a long rant about everything I don't like about it. I think people tend to rationalize their decisions because they don't want to believe they could have made a bad one, regardless of price.

I don't think most people would consider a gas engine in a truck a bad choice. Horsepower is horsepower, been an engineer 37 years, mostly automotive. The diesel vs gas discussions just get ridiculous. I commute in mine, diesel is not the best choice for that. Also I run up the miles a lot higher than most. All my past trucks, gas and diesel, are over 300k miles and still running. Got a master mechanic in the family and I wrench myself so all the blah blah blah about maintenance from people who take it to the dealer means nothing to me.

[interstateflyer]

My 2016 RAM 2500 Diesel 6.7 gets 16.5 towing our 25FB and 20+- highway. Has 15K miles. Mileage should get better once the engine is broken in.

My 2012 RAM 1500 5.6 Hemi Gas got 12.5 towing our 23D and 18-20 highway.

[Thiss]

Diesel fuel contains more usuable energy and greater lubricity, thus it is a superior fuel to gasoline because it increases engine efficiency and longevity.

Nevertheless, one does not only buy an engine for a tow vehicle, there are a lot of factors to concider. The cost benefits analysis for each vehicle option is the individuals choice to make. Unless we are talking muscle and super cars, most gas rigs will never turn my crank.

Modern diesels will move any Airstream efficiently, safely, without exertion, for a very long time in a variety of terrains, temperatures, and elevations.

[Tyvekcat]

Originally Posted by Dexterpix

People keep posting "higher maintenance cost" on a diesel engine. I have had a CUMMINS diesel in three trucks since 2000. I had each truck till 200k before trading in for a new on. I currently have 130k on my 2009 2500 Ram. I don't know what "higher" maintenance cost I am paying. Yes an oil change requires 3 gallons of oils compared to 1 1/2 gallons for gas, but my oil change interval is longer. I change by hours run, not miles. I average 6 months between changes so twice a year. I run full synthetic oil and would regardless of gas or diesel. I change the fuel filter with every change, not required but I always have. Other than oil I have never replaced any other part that was directly related to the diesel engine. Parts replaced where the wear items on the truck. I also have only ever had to do 1 brake job on any of these truck usually at about 125-140k. My current truck is getting new fronts this spring. I don't have any real world experience that a diesel engine has higher cost than and average gas engine. If you believe an extra 25-50 buck on an oil change twice a year is "high cost" than we see cost differently.
My wife corrected me we have 133k on "her" truck. She drives it as her aily driver.
Joe D

This ^ Thanks Joe, exactly what I do as well, except the hours interval. I average an oil change a little over 7 to 8 months, i'm less on the mileage, but never an issue. I use Rotella synthetic, change it myself, super easy. The newer synthetic Rotella increased the fuel mileage, but I changed the trans fluid the last time also, so it was probably a combo of both.
Mine is the 5.9 version, and they can have it back when they pry my cold dead hands off the steering wheel. I have to put that truck in the will cause I am always asked about it. Right now my niece is most persistent and wants it, but I think she thinks the AS goes with it. That may change as she goes through high school
We don't drive it daily, we have the 'Jeeps' for the daily short trips. I think that is what helps that diesel, only driving it only longer trips. I just upgraded the front sway bar end links. Those actually make a difference on handling. I didn't think it would, but was pleasantly surprised.
It pulls like a SD70m locomotive, but everyone that has a CTD knows that.
I can't go back to gas in a truck,
I can get 13mpg easy pulling the AS, 14-15mpg on flatland. Probably could be better if I went easy on the entrance ramps to the 'super-slab', but I like putting the wife back in the seat and watching the cat extending the claws to hold on
Have a good one !