Diesel vs Gas Engine? Better MPG When Towing??

[tjdonahoe]

That might be a bit exaggerated , fuel here is 2.48. Reg is 2.35, oil and filter on my new ram cost me 850$ for the life of the pickup, fuel filters, 1 a year, def is 7.50 at Walmart , my 07 ram got 12.5 mpg coast to coast, the new one with 3.42 gears should be close to 13.5 -14.5 at 63 mph, I don't understand why there is so much fear of the new technology in the Diesel engines, my 07 has 110,000 miles never a problem. I have driven a v10 ford, it wasn't any different than my 72 ford 390 and 9 mpg..you don't see any big trucks on the road burning gasoline any more, there is a reason for this mileage ,costs/ mile and power....

[crisen]

We just sold our 08 3500 w cummins w 116000 miles. NADA book added $7500 to truck value for the diesel and we got that in private party sale. New Ram is 2016 3500 also diesel .

[gandttimes]

Originally Posted by crisen

We just sold our 08 3500 w cummins w 116000 miles. NADA book added $7500 to truck value for the diesel and we got that in private party sale. New Ram is 2016 3500 also diesel .

Curious as to why you traded up for the same vehicle with 1/3 the mileage that everyone says the diesels are capable of when longevity seems to be one of the main answers to " why did you buy a diesel".


George

[Al and Missy]

My F-150 5.4L required oil changes every 5000 miles. My 2500 CTD is every 15,000 or 6 months. Even at 6 months I'd be hard pressed to spend an average of $150 per 3 months on maintenance.

Al

[jwgreen]

I have had 3 Airstream 34 ft. trailers, a '91, a '99, and now a 2007 with a slide out. I towed the '91 with a '96 Dodge 2500 with the 8.0L V-10 gas engine. Fuel mileage when towing: 9-10 mpg. I traded it in 2005 for a Dodge 3500 2WD with a Cummins 5.9L diesel. Fuel mileage when towing: 12-13 mpg. I traded it for a 2011 Dodge 3500 4WD with the Cummins 6.7L turbo diesel. Fuel mileage when towing: 10-11 mpg. I agree with pappy19 that it's more subjective than objective about wanting a diesel powered truck. I replaced the 35 gal. OEM fuel tank with an aftermarket Transfer Flow 60 gal. tank that mounts under the truck, nothing in the bed. We have been on 2 caravans with 5-8% grades and both diesel trucks were up to the task. I had added a Pac Brake exhaust brake on the 2005 and it handled the down grades better than the 2011 truck does with the factory VGT exhaust brake. So, look at where you plan to go and if you expect frequent mountain towing, a diesel will do somewhat better but new gas engines are still up to the task. Even Nissan has a new half ton Titan truck with the brand new Cummins 5.0L V-8 turbo-diesel that would do an excellent job with a 30 ft. Airstream. As for maintenance expense, I buy Valvoline oil (recommended by Cummins) at TSC or Farm & Fleet when it's on sale for $11/gal. (need 3 gal.) and order all of my filters from Geno's Garage in GA. I take my oil and filters to my dealer for an oil change and pay $20 and he gets rid of the old oil. I'm 72 years old and don't choose to do my own oil changes. There is very little diesel exhaust smell with my truck that doesn't use DEF like the newer trucks. As for diesel fuel on your hands, I keep a box of nitrile gloves in the back of the truck that cost $6 from Harbor Freight Tools. They also are used when dumping the trailer holding tanks. So, for what it's worth, I like my diesel truck. My buddy who lives about 30 mi. away has a 2014 Dodge Ram 3500 with the 6.4L hemi V-8 and also tows a 34 ft. Airstream. He replaced his '96 Dodge 2500 with a V-10 with the new truck. So far, he's been pleased but has not done much mountain towing other than West Virginia this summer.

[bon4rm]

I have a 2009 Duramax and tow our 28 ft Fling Cloud with no problems at all. Our MPG while not towing is about 20MPG and when towing we average 12 to 14 MPG, depending on terrain. I can run 70 MPH and still get the same fuel economy. With your sensitivity to fuel smells, I only notice that when I am fueling, No smell in the cab our outside just because it is a Diesel,. The duramax is fantastic when I am towing, you can go from a standing still to 55 in 15 seconds. I am very happy with the truck and change oil every 5000 miles and fuel filter every 15000. I have had no factory service outside of a transmission service at 50K. The vehicle has had "0" problems since new.

Good luck
Bob Hooper

[leje]

Originally Posted by Toutsi 1957

I own an AS 27FB and my TV is a Denali HD with Duramax/Alison. Empty I do 20 mpg, towing I do 13 both at 60 mph. I select the diesel for safety and acceleration power. The advantages of the diesel engine are:
1. The fuel consumption of a Diesel will be better than a gas engine by 20% in any configurations, towing or not towing.
2. The diesel engine provide much higher engine brake than any gas engine. Saving on brake maintenance if you use it.
3. There are no more bad smell or noise with diesel engines. These are past history.
4. The torque of a diesel engine is double the torque of a gas engine. This make the trips safer because you have much better acceleration than with a gas engine. This is very important when you enter into a highway.
5. If you buy your truck with the diesel you will have no regrets at all while you may have some with a gas engine.
All experience people and mechanics will tell you that having a Diesel engine makes economical logic if you do more than 25,000 miles a year.
If you have more questions let me know. Myself and Jacinthe love our Denali.

This. I have the same truck, 2015. I tow a 27FB and get 13.5 MPG. My 2014 Tundra got 8.5. Empty I get 20 on a tank, with a regen. Diesels have very clean emissions these days and they don't smell, except when the DPF is being regenerated. Someone made a point that the duramax is industry rated at 250-300k miles between rebuilds, and that may be true, but that testing is done at much higher loads than you will be putting on it with your 30' trailer.

Honestly, I can't say my duramax purchase is financially justified. However, the fact that the gas engine isn't even on the same planet, despite the fact the gap has narrowed, in terms of control (acceleration, braking, grade shifting). I'm hauling precious cargo (family of 5) and this made the decision a no brainer. I have no regrets.

[nickclifford]

no super expert here, but an interesting thread. I'd say depends on your estimated annual mileage. If you're retired and plan on driving thousands of miles / yr, get a diesel v is this just for occasional trips ..? why bother spending more for a diesel TV to just drive a few hundred miles here and there? I bought a used Tundra as only taking a few trips per year, the V8 only gets 11 towing but low maintenance costs and gas is so cheap (at least for now ..) My trailer is an older unit, only weighs in at 5,000lbs dry ..

[RVDreamer]

Diesel pickups also have a much higher resale price than gasoline pickups.

So even though the initial cost is higher, if you trade every 3 - 5 years or you decide to sell in the future you will recoup a much larger percentage of your original investment.

Between 2001 and 2010, I was trading Ford F-250s about every 2 years. The cost to trade was averaging about $1800 year. That works out to about $150 a month and I was driving a new truck with full warranty every 2 years.

About 2010 that changed and the new truck prices started climbing much faster while the used truck prices started to decline more. So now I trade much more infrequent.

[Steamguy]

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

My F-150 5.4L required oil changes every 5000 miles. My 2500 CTD is every 15,000 or 6 months. Even at 6 months I'd be hard pressed to spend an average of $150 per 3 months on maintenance.

My situation might be used as a dividing line: I have an inexpensive-to-drive 'work car', so my 12-year-old truck just sits with a battery maintainer on it, until I need it to do work around my property, tow the tractor, or we go camping. But my half-ton gasser has 100,000 miles on it, and I'm starting to research replacements.

There are a few things (beside the money) putting me off modern diesel trucks. I just won't be driving the truck enough to justify the expense, and from past experience, I know diesels are like greyhounds: (we've had both!) They need exercise!

Because some manufacturers require oil changes for their diesel engines at every six months, I'd be changing oil at about 1500-2500 miles, which doesn't seem too awfully economical. Second item is that DEF has a shelf life. Not sure what it would be in the tank, though. Maybe someone here can address this.

Right now I'm leaning 2500 gas, although I really thank George for mentioning the GM and Chevrolet 1500 6.2 NHT Maxtow - I will definitely check into that. Ford is completely out of the picture for me for my own reasons.

This has been a really good thread, many thanks to folks here for keeping open minds and not bashing on one thing or another. Really informative, and helping me make this expensive decision.

[Dexterpix]

Never understood these threads. We are talking about 100k dollar trailers and 50-75k truck and people are worried about their MPG !!! I must be missing something. Buy what "YOU" want not what some one on the internet tells you. If your a good drive you can haul any Airstream with any truck/suv/car/van what ever you choose to hook to it. Because if you know how to drive, you will know how to drive with the vehicle you have to do the driving with.

Joe D

[Mitou]

We had a Toyota Tundra big V8 gasoline engine and a 23 ft Airstream trailer and we got between 9 and 11 miles per gallon.

[Mitou]

Well you don't have to stop as often if you get good mpg. You can't be a good driver and tow your airstream with your Fiat. You can save substantial amounts of money on fuel and spend it on food or maintenance instead. I think it was a good question.

[SCOTTinNJ]

I've never driven a diesel so I can't comment on that, but it's pretty easy to see why they are so popular when you look at this torque curve for the 2016 Ford 6.7.




For comparison, the Ford 6.2 (2016) peaked at 405 lb ft at 4500 rpm.

The 6.7 is making that at just over 1000 rpm and is hitting peak torque at 1600 rpm.

There really isn't a comparison.

Now I'd love to see what a 5.0L ecoboost would do!

[crisen]

Originally Posted by gandttimes

Curious as to why you traded up for the same vehicle with 1/3 the mileage that everyone says the diesels are capable of when longevity seems to be one of the main answers to " why did you buy a diesel".


George

George,
Traded for several reasons, age vs resale, mother wanted an automatic instead of the manual trans, new one has back up camera and other things the 08 didn't and sometimes you just want a new toy!

[gandttimes]

Originally Posted by crisen

George,
Traded for several reasons, age vs resale, mother wanted an automatic instead of the manual trans, new one has back up camera and other things the 08 didn't and sometimes you just want a new toy!

Good enough reasons


George

[carl2591]

the 2017 6.7L diesel is a beast. 900 HP and some 450 Ft Lb torque. The same engine as the 2012 but a nice boost in HP. By now they have gotten the bugs worked out so it might be a good choice.

As for buying a truck now.. With the latest numbers from around the industry Sales are a bit slow so there are more deals. I would figure something along the lines of 15-20K off MSRP as a starting point and walk if they wont deal. Look for a 2016, now a hold over, and able to get more rebates from manf.

the longer you wait the better the deal will get.

Originally Posted by Moflash

We pull a 28ft International and started with a new F150 max tow and soon found out it was not for us.Traded for a new 2012 F350 6.7 turbo diesel and wow what a difference.Drove it 39k miles and traded for a new 2015 F350 6.7 turbo diesel.When it comes time to trade again it will be a 2018 F350 turbo diesel.Traveling with this rig is like driving a luxury car the ride is smooth and very quiet.You never have worry about how much things weigh when preparing for the next adventure.It takes the edge off just knowing that you have a capable vehicle designed for this purpose.

[carl2591]

easy,, they are grossing something close to 80K with truck, trailer and cargo. you are pulling maybe 10K -17K total. pulling that much weight up a 6% grade takes a LOT of power. If your weight ratio was close to that you would be in the right lane at like 10 MPH is that.

that same tractor with no trailer will pull the hill faster than you can.

there is not a gas engine in a truck that can do the same thing in todays world.

from the cummins website
ISX15 ratings range from 400-600 hp (298-447 kW) with up to 2050 lb-ft (2779 n•M) of peak torque. These include SmartTorque ratings that add 200 lb-ft of extra torque in the top two gears so Class 8 trucks can make it up steep grades with fewer downshifts.

Originally Posted by dasams

Why are they in the right lane at 30 mph with their flashers on when climbing up a hill?

[carl2591]

not sure that statement is correct.. I am not aware of a manufacture of a diesel truck that requires oil change every 6 months. Most base it on mileage or hours run. You can buy a gallon of Rotell t6 oil for 18 a gallon, filters are 10 the cost of maintenance is almost the same as a gas. Some guys are running oil 10K miles no problem in diesels. Now they are getting UOA, Used Oil Analyzes, as well.


second, DEF fluid does have a shelve life, but when you know the facts it makes better sense. If you don't drive your truck for a year then this might be an issue.
http://govictoryblue.com/2013/10/08/...exhaust-fluid/

My truck is older and not in need of DEF.

Originally Posted by Steamguy

Because some manufacturers require oil changes for their diesel engines at every six months, I'd be changing oil at about 1500-2500 miles, which doesn't seem too awfully economical. Second item is that DEF has a shelf life. Not sure what it would be in the tank, though. Maybe someone here can address this.

[carl2591]

man three post in a row. I need to get a life.