Diesel SUV for 23' or 25' FC

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by rostam

Speaking of payload, given that both Touareg and Grand Cherokee Diesel have payloads of around 1100#, I am guessing that both vehicles pictured are exceeding their payloads (on top of possibly exceeding their tow ratings, GCVWR, hitch rating, and axle ratings). But, a CAT scale ticket would prove me wrong.

Well you're guessing and no one has to prove you wrong, but you ought to get an Airstream and then you could speak from experience.

[Estoniankid]

I too am looking at tow vehicle for a 23-27 ' airstream model

Those diesel SUVs are cool, but whatabout outside storage space. can you fit all the outside gear. I usually throw in my truck bed in the rear of an suv. Kayaks?, generators, extra fuel and lighter fluid. Gets a bit more touchy if it is to be carried inside instead of out in the bed.

Can one of these diesel SUVs tow a a fully wet loaded pull a 25' flying cloud over california mountAin passes at 65 mph without redlining or doing damage to axles, trannies, or prematurely eat you engines lifespan

I have no doubts about hauling such a load with an 8 cylinder diesel in a pick up, but an SUV being adequate to this task seems to require a certain amount of disbelief that they are equal or better than our beloved ton and half tons gas engines we traditionally use for tough loads.

First would miss the lost storage space
Two, would be worried about high maintenance and repair costs from pushing this relatively small engine to tow such weight, over such heights.

Solve the first two issues for me and I might become a believer. Must admit it would be lots of fun to have Mercedes tow rig, and nice car too when off tow, compared to a silverado, sierra, ram, or f-150.

Why don't ford and gm put diesels into their SUVs. Euros ahead of us her

[westernjeep401]

Originally Posted by mje

I really don't understand why Dodge has not put in their V6 diesels in Durango.

According to Wall Street, the Durango is slated to be discontinued, again. This might explain why this great SUV has not inherited the Motori diesel.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by ericpeltier

To answer a few questions:

I have a sales job where driving around a 'Benz will broadcast the wrong image. It's just my opinion, and also my impression of MB. I live in a town where flashy cars are not received well.

eric... Understand! Back in the 80's I bought a 5 year old Mercedes 450SEL. I had a service job and every week I had to go to the head office/manufacturing plant of a major North American auto maker. It didn't go well. I heard the CEO of the plant location new about it and was not happy.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Well you're guessing and no one has to prove you wrong, but you ought to get an Airstream and then you could speak from experience.

Factory tongue weight is 880# (excludes options and liquids)
Add optional equipment and some water => 1000#
Add a top of the line hitch => 1200#
Forget about occupants and gear you put in the TV for now. Since those vehicles have around 1100# of payload, they are overloaded already (even if you move some weight to the trailer axles).

Doug, in your vast experience, what am I getting wrong here?

[mje]

- That would be too bad that Durango gets discontinued, there are a market for it. My friend bought one recently and loves it.

- Payload on the VW Touareg is confusing, I understand. It's sibling, Porsche Cayenne Diesel, has a payload of 1,676#. I've worked with Andy at Can-Am and he is comfortable with my set up and I trust him. He was the one done the hitch reinforcement on my VW and reinforced ProPride hitch to eliminate weak spots. I keep my 30' FC empty of water when towing. I carry nothing but myself, wife, and one kid in my VW when towing (besides immediate effects, such as toys, electronics, and snacks). It worked well for us so far. The biggest pluses are that it got anti-sway system, great braking system (13" discs with 4 pot calipers all around that none but Porsche Cayenne and Audi Q7 are equipped with). Also, the tongue of the trailer is set one foot from the hitch, it effectively cancels some tongue weight out as it gives more leverage to the tow vehicle adding more stress to the hitch system (which is why I had it reinforced by Andy). To sum it up, I feel real good with my set up and yes VW diesel is blast to drive every day with 500+ miles per tank with only city driving.

- As for towing through mountains and the stress it can do with small motor. I would say, I don't have an answer to it, but time will prevail and I WILL be honest and share my experience with my SUV here to help others to make an informed decisions. The hills (in West Austin and in south Missouri) I've towed my 30' FC through did not give VW any problems nor pushing it to redline. Most of my travels are limited to flat or hills for now.

- As for outside storage. With SUVs, one got to be creative. Some people would put canoes or kayaks in AS through the front or rear window depending on the layout of your AS. For my 30' FC, I have a twin bed set up in rear which will allow me to store canoes/kayaks/fishing poles in the rear without preventing us to use bathroom, kitchen, or seating areas while on the road. For the lighter fluid or any gaseous liquids, I would put them in the bumper storage in AS and I would not bother putting it anywhere else and definitely not inside. For the bikes, there are two options, add bike rack on the back of AS or on top of the SUV on the roof rack. They weight so little and should not affect much in terms of payload. For the generators, if you don't need to run A/C, you can just rely on battery power and add solar -- I plan on adding in near future, and with 27' and 30' you have a lot of room for solar panels. Few put Honda 2000i generators on top of the battery box between propane tank and the front of AS -- the downside is that this will increase tongue weight (I'm guessing by 50# more). There is usually a solution for any limitations you want to take down to be safe and enjoy camping.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by rostam

Factory tongue weight is 880# (excludes options and liquids)
Add optional equipment and some water => 1000#
Add a top of the line hitch => 1200#
Forget about occupants and gear you put in the TV for now. Since those vehicles have around 1100# of payload, they are overloaded already (even if you move some weight to the trailer axles).

Doug, in your vast experience, what am I getting wrong here?

What you have wrong here is a sweeping disregard of perhaps half of Airstream owners who tow with 1/2 ton trucks and SUV's that in your over-simplified math, that you are calling unsafe and wrong.

What you are also doing wrong here is constantly cruising these tow vehicle threads to start and carry on arguments against these successful combinations, not backing any of it up with any Airstream experience of your own.

You clearly have some things to learn about towing Airstreams. These folks on this thread can help if you would set your charts aside and listen what they are doing, and apparently doing successfully if not right.

[JamuJoe]

There is good information on the GC Diesel in several threads on this forum. Search posts by Jim Flower, myself and other owners for real world towing experience.

JamuJoe
2011 FC23FB
2014 Jeep GC Overland Diesel
Equalizer Hitch




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[FishinHatteras]

Morning folks. I have been a lurker here for awhile, and have consumed plenty of knowledge form this great board. AS are a cult if ya ask me, and I want to join the cult. We are looking, but looking with confidence after finding this board.
I own a cult boat (Shamrock) and am the admin of the web page for them. I want to thank the numerous good folks on here that will bend over backwards to help a fellow ASer with any ?'s they have. That kind of help is priceless. We do the same on my board.

Okay, so I have been around boats all of my life. My grandmother had me fishing on the Chesapeake bay when I was only one month old. I didn't catch anything obviously, but I was gettin me sealegs. I have owned boats for years, and almost all of them have been on a trailer. I know the AS's come with brakes. Pads are pitiful, discs rule I might add, but let me ask you guys that are towing with a MB or a Jeep/small SUV with a 30'er. Do you feel confident that you could stop that rig in time when you HAD to stop it? I understand you can make modifications to your hitch to help your vehicle with the weight, (WDH & others) but one thing I fail to see with this post in particular, is anyone asking the very simple question: How do you stop it? Sure that MB & Jeep/small SUV might be able to pull that 30'er, but can you stop it quickly? With the political correctness going around these days, and the lawsuits that go with them, aren't you guys a little fearful of having your butts sued if you got into an accident and some smart lawyer proved that your vehicle was @ or beyond it's towing capacity? I don't know guys & gals, I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I have always preferred to have a bigger horse than trailer. If I need to stop my rig quickly, I don't want to be worried about how well it can do it, or watch what I put in my vehicle before setting out on my journey. I have a Chevy 3/4 ton PU, and the brakes on this beast are massive.
We are looking at 25's & 27's, and I have no doubt my truck could pull AND STOP either of them quickly & efficiently. I'm just the newbie here, so please feel free to chime in. I'm by no means a rookie to pulling large loads, and have seen my fair share of accidents with vehicles that simply could not stop or properly control the load they were dragging. Under duress braking can be very tricky. If you don't know how to do it, the easiest way to learn is with a tow vehicle that can handle the job/load it's been given.
Again, not trying to stir the pot, and certainly not out to ruffle anyones feathers, just looking at this from the many years of towing that I have under me belt. Placing a piece of equipment under the maximum load, or close to it, is never good for ANY piece of equipment.

[slowmover]

The question about brakes is two fold. One a heavy truck needs more to stop itself. Those larger brakes aren't really going to make that much difference.

Antilock disc brakes (see TUSON) on the trailer will make a real difference as drums are almost constantly out of adjustment in themselves and with each other. Plus they fade rapidly

Disc will help bring the combined rig to a full stop sooner than the tow vehicle when solo If one is painstaking

A ProPride hitch and discs is pretty well state of the art and worth your investigation. A pickup may also benefit from upgrades to shocks and suspension as it is generally the worst tow vehicle. An AS can get through a slalom faster than can a truck while solo

Take your time


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[cory_can]

My "undersized" vehicle has large vented rotors, 4 piston Brembo calipers and stops its own weight more than 30ft sooner from 60mph than a typical pickup truck.... with much more control and using tires with more grip. It's actually more like 35ft...yes, 35ft sooner. Does the large truck miraculously gain braking force when you strap on a trailer? So to answer your question, yes, I have confidence that I can bring my combination to a controlled stop under emergency conditions. I've tested it and it may surprise you . Perhaps I should ask you if your 6500lbs+ truck has enough braking force to not pile through 2 or 3 cars on the highway if an emergency stop would occur (even without towing a load) or if you could maintain control while doing so.

[dkottum]

Sham' welcome to the forums and I think you will enjoy an Airstream. As for stirring the pot, all tow and hitch threads descend into junk sooner or later and the mod's wisely shut it down.

But here's a couple of thoughts on towing and brakes. Airstreams now come with drum brakes only, but the factory service or other shops can convert them to disc brakes. Either will stop the airstream. Our drums will stop the trailer and our 5400# truck.

Heavy duty trucks have larger brakes than 1/2 ton trucks, good thing because they often have 2,000# more to stop. Here's one test, for what it's worth, of light and heavy duty trucks of the same make. The light truck, with smaller brakes, stops in a shorter distance. With equal Airstreams, I don't see a reason to believe that would change and have seen no tests to show it would.

2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel vs. 2014 Ram 2500 - Sibling Rivalry - Diesel Power Magazine

As for handling, Can-Am Airstream in London, Ontario has tested these different rigs in handling tests and the full independent suspension SUV's, vans, and passenger cars outperformed the heavy duty trucks. They are the only Airstream dealer who has recently compared these different vehicles in actual road tests that I am aware of.

As for durability, yes I would think the heavy duty vehicle may last longer. But they should costing much more to buy, service, repair, and in many cases fuel. And many, perhaps most recreational Airstream users trade either one long before either wears out.

We use a half-ton truck for our Airstream. The only disadvantage to heavy duty I see is less payload capability, which we manage without difficulty. The short (120") wheelbase disadvantage of our particular truck is managed effortlessly with a ProPride hitch which allows no sway or push from heavy winds or semis on Interstate highways. It's a pleasure to drive with or without the Airstream attached.

[ericpeltier]

Originally Posted by mje

- It's sibling, Porsche Cayenne Diesel, has a payload of 1,676#.

Wow, that's ~125 lbs more capacity than my Armada!

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by rostam

Speaking of payload,

You need to check the numbers... Most folks are surprised to learn our 93 Nissan Mini Van had a 1,425lb payload rating. From that era Dodge posted the payload for one of their Ram pick ups at a pinch over 1,300 Ibs.

Note our car has a payload rating of under 1,000lbs. Connected ready for travel the CAT scale shows we are at that max rating but not over. No problem.

[cory_can]

Payload is an interesting topic. A family member had a Highlander and complained of the payload....it was ~1500lbs.

He traded in the Highlander and decided that a Tundra 4x4 Crewmax with a ginormous V8 would be better....he could put his whole family in the cab, pull his trailer with ease, fill the bed with "whatever" he wants and still put kayaks on the roof with a custom metal rack. He also bought a MUCH bigger 36' SOB trailer (7K dry)....no problem, a huge truck can hold/pull it all....after all it has a 9K towing capacity.

His Tundra payload is ~1300lbs .

He didn't/doesn't want to listen.

[mje]

- Yea, like I mentioned before, payload capacities is pretty confusing. Just do it right, listen to the experts, and stay within reasonable limits (weight, speed, distance between you and others), check your tire pressures, and repair anything that requires it, and respect weather.

- VW Touaregs and their siblings have very good braking system -- Porsche is strong on this arena and uses Brembo brakes on Touaregs, Cayennes, Q7's as well as number of other cars. This was one of the factors of my decision going with them. I had to tow 20' FC AS for a few hours without any trailer brakes (I hate that, but I had to deliver it under pressure of time) but not once I feel unsafe stopping the whole rig. So, based on that experience, I know that I can comfortably stop 30'er with proper braking setup.

I used to own Jeep Commander V8 before VW and it's towing and braking capabilities were also great. But that experience was limited to only bass boats and 20' FC. If I had to stick with Commander, I will not be afraid to use it to tow 30'er (non-Classic).

What you need varies, but never hurt to ask this expert --> Andy at Can-Am!!! He will tell you directly if your requested set up is possible and what is needed to be done safely.

[slowmover]

Payload has to do with brake capacity. Real limit is axle wheel tire ratings


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[Estoniankid]

Can anyone post the full specs on the Mercedes gl 350?

Mercedes website doesn't show much

[Zia]

Last month came back from Alaska trip of over 9,000 miles with my 2012 GL350 Blue Tech (diesel). To my surprise I drove 98% of the time on Cruise without any problem including uphill and downhill, the car automatically changed gear by itself. To change the speed I just had to move the cruise lever up and down as needed. In the process never had to use the brakes. Pulling 23 FB with lots of luggage in trunk I got over 15 mpg. Personally I do not like to use high profile vehicles such as Airstream in combination with Mercedes.
I did consider VW diesel SUV, the MB won due to the fact I always drove MB,s and are very familiar with them.
Good luck on your decision I am sure all other SUV are capable as well.

[Teton Stream]

RCLOUD9: I have a 2007 Diesel GC and tow a 2013 20'FC. It is as if nothing is behind you and the torque up the hills is amazing. I am thinking of trading up to either the FC or Int't 23' FB. It sounds like you have no problems with your diesel GC towing the 23FB. Any engine heat issues on mountain climbs?