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Old 12-06-2019, 09:15 AM   #21
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Warren , Manitoba
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I am on my 8th diesel truck. First one was the GM 6.2 and now up to the 2012 6.6. Since day1, I have used diesel conditioner in every tank of fuel, and never had a problem other than replacing a set of injectors at 300,000 km on my 2002 GM 6.6. I have a FASS fuel pump and filter system on the current truck which gives a double layer of protection from water in fuel. I am also very careful to refuel at 1/4 tank or above and refuel in stations that have a high turnover of fuel. Diesel trucks are my choice, but not for everybody. They require a little more care if you want to keep the repair bills away. JMHO
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:01 AM   #22
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Water?

I really think somebody is FOS if they are saying that water got anywhere near the mechanical parts of a modern diesel unless something was purposely bypassed. I have been working on and driving heavy trucks since 1977 and have never seen water make it past the proper filter! Even the low end small single filter will plug and kill the engine before letting any water past! As far as water getting into the storage tank....maybe....but there are also filters at the pumps to catch any of that. It was somewhere back in the 80s the last time I have even seen a vehicle filter plugged with water.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:29 AM   #23
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I am a big fan of diesel power but have learned some lessons;
1. Don't skimp on fuel filter maintenance. MY MB Sprinter & Jeep Eco-Diesel have warning lights for water in fuel but mine never light because i have maintenance done faithfully.
2. Purchase fuel from name brand, high volume retailers that turn fuel quickly.
3. NEVER use starting fluid! It has no lubricity and will cause the rings to drag ruining your block. This was as $15k lesson on a John Deere trac loader! Not my mistake but a subcontractors.
4. Although savings are tempting avoid bio-diesel for the reasons others have mentioned.
5. Don't use a diesel vehicle as a short run grocery getter. They are better suited for trips where they come up & stay up to full operating temperatures.
6. All diesel fuel can go rancid, if your vehicle will sit for an extended time use a quality fuel treatment.
7. If your vehicle requires DEF be very careful not to cross contaminate with fuel or fuel additive. Two owners I know incurred $2500 bill that were not warrantied.

On a somewhat related note; Running diesel heaters in a very cold environment if shut down for an extended time moisture in the fuel will freeze in the orifice blocking fuel flow. These heaters do not have any provision for fuel/water separation. This proves to me that all diesel has some moisture further showing the need for filter maintenance.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:36 AM   #24
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1989 25' Excella
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I have 218K on my '02 F-250. Probably half of that is tow miles. It's one of the last of the 7.3 liter Navistar engines. I have often said that once you tow with a diesel you will never want to go back to gas. In my opinion the problems with the newer diesels stems mostly from the government mandated emissions equipment. I have experienced a CPS failure and just recently a IPR failure but that is about all. Which is not bad for a twenty year old truck. My plan is to keep going even if I have to rebuild the engine or trans rather than than invest a lot more money in a new truck.
Previous advice about maintenance is absolutely spot on. I have always done my own oil and filter changes on about a 3000 mile interval and always drain the fuel filter at every oil change to check for water (never found any).
These trucks are amazing tow vehicles that can last for a long time but there are some things to know about the care and feeding that would not be obvious to someone who has not owned a diesel before.
Good luck with your new TV whatever you decide to go with and enjoy it.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:55 AM   #25
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I am one of the few on here who owns a rare Airstream diesel pusher. Its got a Cummins 275hp built in 1996 for the 1997 model year RV's. It does not have the advanced computers found on all newer models but it does have a water separater/evaporator filter that easy to view and reach. It also has warning lights on the dash to indicate if water is in the fuel.

That said....I also previously owned a Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel that was my toad. Water does get into the fuel supply but with regular maintenance, it should not be as serious a problem as described by the original person who started this chain. While in Montana, I met a diesel mechanic who retired from the Cummins Plant in IN. At the time my Airstream only had 65k miles and was in for a basic oil change and service. He said the motor was built to run 500k miles without any major service and its bullet proof as long as attached parts like starters, water pumps, etc keep working. I do check the water filter and start up the engine monthly if its been sitting awhile. Love it and would buy another if I could.

My recommendation is to check with the diesel forums for specific info and whatever you drive, keep the maintenance up whether its driven regularly or not.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by kittmaster View Post
I was at my dealer and we are very good friends, I told he we are looking hard at a dually diesel and he brought something to my attention with a work order they just completed.

He showed me a bill, I kid you not, the final total was $12,700 & change (visually saw the end line item). The cause, water in the fuel tank that damaged the fuel pump forcing new fuel lines (pieces & stems throughout feed and return lines), all new injectors (shrapnel damaged from pieces). $135/hr and around 50 hours, 6k in labor, the rest of the cost were parts he mentioned. Granted this was the dealer, but at that level of damage, it makes sense to me that a dealer vs. a private shop do that type of repair....IMO.

He said the root cause was "water" in the tank which water is a friction component and not a lubricant as diesel itself is and that it damaged the components and it systematically damaged the truck.

The odometer was 106k and out of warranty.

So my questions stem from.......how does this even happen? He said, have you ever seen a gas station squeegee attendant the concrete around the tanks? I said yeah......well I guess that how it happens and you really have no control over where and when you have it happen to you.

Those of you that own diesels, does this concern you? Is this a common occurrence? Do people really spend this much to repair the truck as it probably is only at 1/4 of its life expectancy?

We have been looking hard at diesels for our next TV and this really gives me pause.

Where do you folks stand on this type of thing? Seen it? Done it? >>> Keep the truck? Scrap it?

Thx
Chris
This dealer story is highly suspect to me.
Diesel powered equipment has water separators in the fuel system often more often than one.
I operated 25 Diesel semi dump trucks and 12 pieces of diesel powered construction equipment and never had an engine break down due to water in the tank or fuel system.
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:13 PM   #27
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I had a Ford F250 with diesel. Got water in fuel. It started cutting out but kept running. Went to the dealer and got a new fuel filter for about $80. Kept going. A week or so later, a couple of the injectors went out and the truck was, for all intents and purposes, dead in the road. Parked the trailer, limped into the dealer where he replaced two injectors and another fuel filter because there might have been metal in the fuel from the injectors. The bill was about $3,000 as I recall. Labor was only $85 at the time, but it's been a few years back.
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:22 PM   #28
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Gasoline in the fuel system will do that.
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:28 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by JayTheCPA View Post
The best place to get information on care and feeding of any generation of diesel is on the appropriate forum. Not tying to insult any of the diesel drivers on this forum. And just like any internet forum, use care as descriptions can have a bit of exaggeration within the narrative.
Agreed. Keep in mind that ANY forum, AS , Diesel, Ford, GM etc, tends to amplify problems since people are there to discuss prevention and solutions. Talking about trouble free miles must be boring😀
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:46 PM   #30
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2012 25' FB International
Trent Woods , North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken G View Post
I am a big fan of diesel power but have learned some lessons;
1. Don't skimp on fuel filter maintenance. MY MB Sprinter & Jeep Eco-Diesel have warning lights for water in fuel but mine never light because i have maintenance done faithfully.
2. Purchase fuel from name brand, high volume retailers that turn fuel quickly.
3. NEVER use starting fluid! It has no lubricity and will cause the rings to drag ruining your block. This was as $15k lesson on a John Deere trac loader! Not my mistake but a subcontractors.
4. Although savings are tempting avoid bio-diesel for the reasons others have mentioned.
5. Don't use a diesel vehicle as a short run grocery getter. They are better suited for trips where they come up & stay up to full operating temperatures.
6. All diesel fuel can go rancid, if your vehicle will sit for an extended time use a quality fuel treatment.
7. If your vehicle requires DEF be very careful not to cross contaminate with fuel or fuel additive. Two owners I know incurred $2500 bill that were not warrantied.

On a somewhat related note; Running diesel heaters in a very cold environment if shut down for an extended time moisture in the fuel will freeze in the orifice blocking fuel flow. These heaters do not have any provision for fuel/water separation. This proves to me that all diesel has some moisture further showing the need for filter maintenance.
Number 5 and number 6 are especially important to those who look at owning a diesel for towing their Airstream, but do not use the truck for much of anything else. They will only invite future maintenance costs.
Larry
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:31 PM   #31
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Spoiled .
To me society in general is getting spoiled , avoiding the concept of being responsible and a bunch of other words or terms to explain what this thread is a symptom of .

If you own it / operate it etc. - you should know something about it .
If want to keep it - you should be aware of and be motivated to performing at least some of the preventive maintenance .

The part of society going bad , is that the culture is [ manipulated ] into being a throw away culture .
Products are built to create revenue streams through planned obsolescence .
" TURN KEY & FORGET IT " = spoiled .

We need to look out for ourselves , responsibility .
Much like the concept of " giving up freedom to be safe "

I'm sure some will think that we cannot know about everything in our lives .
That's so we prioritize - when a new diesel truck is in the range of $70,000 + ,
- that should put it higher on the list

For those that got this far
All fuel injected engines gasoline & diesel , the fuel is constantly recirculating through the fuel system .
At an idle most of the fuel goes back to the tank , and with diesels especially the fuel heats up and as you drive " tow " longer , the tank of fuel heats up - so goes through heat-cycles , similar to aircraft fuel tanks warmer on ground & below freezing at many altitudes - so the one of the reasons / cause of condensation build-up in fuel tanks - so not parking a partially emptied tank - refuel before parking
And preflight checking with sight-glass - the fuel .

There many other water in fuel causes , some of them happen before the fuel is dropped into the fuel station's tanks , though this statistically becoming less of an issue [ had fuel station / shop in the 80-90s ] and saw it more than once .

So save that investment
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:48 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
This dealer story is highly suspect to me.
Diesel powered equipment has water separators in the fuel system often more often than one.
I operated 25 Diesel semi dump trucks and 12 pieces of diesel powered construction equipment and never had an engine break down due to water in the tank or fuel system.
I'm sure there may be more to it....bad owner maintenance??.....who knows...but i first hand saw the mileage and cost for the repairs....he spoke directly to it being water damage....maybe the owner ignored warnings, modded it, but again...that is my extent which lead to my inquiry.

Thanks to all for staying on topic and providing valuable feedback.

Chris
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Old 12-06-2019, 05:31 PM   #33
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I think there is another possible scenario that is possible......

It sounds like the injector pump disintegrated, sending metal everywhere.....but the shop can claim anything, in order to save the manuf. money.....

Claiming water in the system puts the owner in the hot seat, whereas a disintegrated injector pump is a manuf. problem, and would have, at the very least, been a reason to be very angry if the manuf did not cover the repair.....

...and don't think for a minute that there are no shenanigans going on in dealerships, between the manuf. and the shop......

The injector pumps are failing left and right on new diesel engines, and many of the manuf. are not wanting to cover it....Ford in particular.....
They keep upping the pressure on the injector pumps to increase hp and efficience and clean burn, but in the process they are creating a situation with fuel pumps that is very unreliable......

For perspective, engines of just a few years ago, with fuel injection, were able to function just fine with 50-75 psi of fuel pressure...now they are building them with direct injection, which requires much higher fuel pressure, in the range of 1800-2500 psi.....Needless to say, a fuel pump putting out that much pressure is under a lot of stress, and failures are imminent.

For all practical purposes, today's diesel engines are junk....they started out a durable workhorses, but now they are hot-rodded, have tons of egr junk, and super high pressures, and they are a ticking time bomb...it's too bad...
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Old 12-06-2019, 05:35 PM   #34
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For those that remember, the old Ford 7.3 was an example of a good diesel engine.....

Tons of torque, noisy, only about 250 hp, and with good care, would easily run 450-600,000 miles.....

Now they have ruined them and they are junk.
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Old 12-06-2019, 05:50 PM   #35
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For those that remember, the old Ford 7.3 was an example of a good diesel engine.....

Tons of torque, noisy, only about 250 hp, and with good care, would easily run 450-600,000 miles.....

Now they have ruined them and they are junk.
500 hp and 1000 ft lbs torque...Iíll take a new one.
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Old 12-06-2019, 05:53 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by kittmaster View Post
I was at my dealer and we are very good friends, I told he we are looking hard at a dually diesel and he brought something to my attention with a work order they just completed.

He showed me a bill, I kid you not, the final total was $12,700 & change (visually saw the end line item). The cause, water in the fuel tank that damaged the fuel pump forcing new fuel lines (pieces & stems throughout feed and return lines), all new injectors (shrapnel damaged from pieces). $135/hr and around 50 hours, 6k in labor, the rest of the cost were parts he mentioned. Granted this was the dealer, but at that level of damage, it makes sense to me that a dealer vs. a private shop do that type of repair....IMO.

He said the root cause was "water" in the tank which water is a friction component and not a lubricant as diesel itself is and that it damaged the components and it systematically damaged the truck.

The odometer was 106k and out of warranty.

So my questions stem from.......how does this even happen? He said, have you ever seen a gas station squeegee attendant the concrete around the tanks? I said yeah......well I guess that how it happens and you really have no control over where and when you have it happen to you.

Those of you that own diesels, does this concern you? Is this a common occurrence? Do people really spend this much to repair the truck as it probably is only at 1/4 of its life expectancy?

We have been looking hard at diesels for our next TV and this really gives me pause.

Where do you folks stand on this type of thing? Seen it? Done it? >>> Keep the truck? Scrap it?

Thx
Chris
Is this your truck? Iím confused.

Iíve had quite a few diesels. Always careful about fuel and maintenance. Never a problem.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
This dealer story is highly suspect to me.
Diesel powered equipment has water separators in the fuel system often more often than one.
I operated 25 Diesel semi dump trucks and 12 pieces of diesel powered construction equipment and never had an engine break down due to water in the tank or fuel system.
Totally agree.....I have had 65 diesel tractors, and never once had a failure due to water.....Now maybe it would not start if there was a lot of water in a filter, but never an engine failure...never.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:14 PM   #38
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Is this your truck? Iím confused.

Iíve had quite a few diesels. Always careful about fuel and maintenance. Never a problem.
No, not my truck.

I'm in an exploratory phase of buying a dually diesel, either a GMC 3500HD or Ram 3500.

I was talking with my buddy and service adviser and he showed me one of the pitfalls of going in that direction vs.a gasser. He is merely pointing out how bad it "can" be if something seriously goes wrong with a diesel from an education point of view before I buy.

So I figured I would ask here with those who have tons of experience....so far it has been very enlightening.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:25 PM   #39
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No, not my truck.

I'm in an exploratory phase of buying a dually diesel, either a GMC 3500HD or Ram 3500.

I was talking with my buddy and service adviser and he showed me one of the pitfalls of going in that direction vs.a gasser. He is merely pointing out how bad it "can" be if something seriously goes wrong with a diesel from an education point of view before I buy.

So I figured I would ask here with those who have tons of experience....so far it has been very enlightening.
Buddies and dealers are the wrong way to learn about diesels. Either. Gassed or diesel can be a nightmare if you donít know what youíre doing. Dealerships have 19 year olds working who donít know squat about diesels.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:49 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Countryboy59 View Post
500 hp and 1000 ft lbs torque...Iíll take a new one.

You need that to pull a 19' International?
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