Death Wobble!

[mkcurtiss]

I have a 1992 Jeep Cherokee 4x4, solid front axle, and I have had death wobble on it one time. After that I went straight to my local tire shop, and had every bushing, grommet, stabilizer, and steering part replaced with new. I installed totally new front suspension...now it is tight as a new one...my jeep had about 85,000 miles on it then....I then replaced the rear suspension....no more death wobble in 8000 miles......

Jeeps are well known for death wobble, but if you keep the front end tight it never happens...... The troubling part about your situation is your truck was new when it did it.....20,000 miles is virtually new.....So it would seem it is an engineering issue.....likely the lift is the source, as lifting changes the angles of so many things, and if not refitted very carefully, all sorts of bad things can happen.

I would get a lawyer.....it is not safe to drive. I would demand that they replace my truck with a model that does not do it. If that did not work, I would sell it and buy a different vehicle....life is too short to worry about all that every time you go somewhere. I had no idea new trucks were doing the wobble...Lord, you would think their R&D would have solved this before it went into production. Unacceptable, IMO.

[mkcurtiss]

fwiw, I have never had any wobble at all, in 950,000 miles on Ford E-350 vans over the years...
And I have had no wobble on Chevy Suburban or Tahoe in 300,000 miles.....

On my jeep yes, but was able to totally fix it.

But if I had not been able to fix it, I would have gotten rid of the pos.....that will get you killed.

[labans]

Just my 2 cents here.
Owned and operated an auto repair shop for over 40 years and worked on many many trucks of all brands and sizes up to 1 ton.
My experience with this death wobble has been on a number of trucks, Jeeps, Fords and others. In nearly every case the bloody customer did not warn me that they had this problem and had the truck in my shop for some other work like tune-up or whatever. After finishing the work I always take the vehicle out for a test ride and I push the vehicle much harder than any customer would (normally) and have been ambushed many times by this death wobble. Since in the early days we did not have internet to overload us with too much irrelevant info we had to determine what was wrong through basic time-proven practices and I can tell you that in every single case the problem was caused by the tires, unless, there was a notably worn suspension component like a tie rod or wheel bearing or steering damper etc.
Dollars to donuts it was always a problem caused by the customer putting on oversized tires or having tires that internally had gone whacko out of balance. As we studied further we found that the sidewall height was a predominant factor; i.e. the taller the sidewall, the worse the problem. The trouble is that people want to put on BIG tires thinking that they are better but that is not always the case.
In your situation, turk123, it is my personal opinion that your tires may be the root of the problem, even though Ford approves that size.
I am sure that I will get many folks poo-pooing this post and maybe even 'dissing' it, but years of independent work have showed me that what I say here is valid and may help.
My suggestion would be to either buy new tires (least best) and I bet you would not have the problem for many miles---Or the better solution would be to move to 18" wheels and tires. (Michelin suggested)
The reasoning is simple. Start with the presumption that ALL suspension components are in correct condition. When the death wobble occurs, it is the sheer mass and weight of the tires that is causing the wobble and these very large 20" tires have huge weight and mass.
So here we see that: 1 oz of imbalance at 60 mph usually causes 7.73 pounds of excess force per revolution. You can extrapolate from there how serious the problem can get.
99% of all tire shops use machines that balance your tires at 10-15 mph and 55-60 mph simultaneously. In most cases this is sufficient. However, a tire can still be out of balance and the machine won't pick it up because the tire is unloaded. To get that problem dealt with the latest machines use 'road force balancing' where the machine has a large roller mechanism that presses on the tire to spin it while applying the correct amount of pressure to simulate the exact weight of what your truck is putting on the tire.
Anyway, as I said, I suspect that after you correct all of the suspension problems you may find that your tires are the true culprit.
Best of luck----

[xyzabe]

I had a 2015 F-250 2WD with over 300K on it and never had the issue. It is a 4x4 issue. An older 4x4 we had did develop the wobble, but by replacing the worn idler (from leak) and 1 worn ball joint, along with an alignment, the problem went away. Just made a point of having the alignment checked every 50-60K, along with tire balance during rotations and front end parts wear during oil changes, we never saw the issue again.

Every other Superduty I've seen or dealt with that developed the wobble came down to one or more of the following:

tire balance (also out of balance rim) or out of round tire(s)
tires not at correct pressures (high, low or mix of both)
worn ball joint(s)
worn out steering stabilizer
worn idler (check for leaks on older trucks)
owner overloads truck on regular basis causing excessive wear on suspension parts

That is just what I've seen regarding this issue. Since I have no real need for a 4X4, I stay with the 2WD version. That gets around any of the 4X4 issues plus gives me better MPG and heavier payload/tow rating.

[rjpapp]

Trade it in for a Dodge Ram 2500.

[NavyCorpsman]

Sounds like a call to the NTSB is in order. Unfortunately someone will have to die, and suffer life long injury to get them started on the problem.

The newer trucks are cheap junk. Outsourced parts, redundant poorly over engineered contrivances that are not made to endure the test of time. My neighbor has a 2011 f350 diesel and I have no patience to describe the problems he has had with the drivetrain and chassis.
I own one of the last real trucks ford made, a 1989 FSuperduty (F450). Real iron, a real 460ci engine, ZF S5420 manual trans and real guts. 5.38:1 Dana 80 rear and a 55 mph highlighted speedometer. I can pull a short train if asked to. 8800 lbs empty. What happened to the "Built Ford Tough" cheerleaders?
The new trucks are very pretty. But they wouldn't last in any fight I would want to win.

Solution: Go find a well maintained OLD truck and enjoy making some good memories. Life is precious. There's no time to kill.

[mykytiukr]

Seems like when this happens it’s always a Ford! And I have experienced it also. Yep...It was an F350. The cure? If everything seems fine and a mechanic can’t find a problem....adjust it for a little more caster!!!! To the top of the specs or a little over. It will fix it....guaranteed!

[JonDNC]

Originally Posted by NavyCorpsman

Sounds like a call to the NTSB is in order. Unfortunately someone will have to die, and suffer life long injury to get them started on the problem.



The newer trucks are cheap junk. Outsourced parts, redundant poorly over engineered contrivances that are not made to endure the test of time. My neighbor has a 2011 f350 diesel and I have no patience to describe the problems he has had with the drivetrain and chassis.

I own one of the last real trucks ford made, a 1989 FSuperduty (F450). Real iron, a real 460ci engine, ZF S5420 manual trans and real guts. 5.38:1 Dana 80 rear and a 55 mph highlighted speedometer. I can pull a short train if asked to. 8800 lbs empty. What happened to the "Built Ford Tough" cheerleaders?

The new trucks are very pretty. But they wouldn't last in any fight I would want to win.



Solution: Go find a well maintained OLD truck and enjoy making some good memories. Life is precious. There's no time to kill.

Let all buy old Detroit junk... I remember all too well cars that rusted out after 5 years. Come on this is not an end of the world problem. It’s a known issue that has fixes. It’s a wear issue. If the truck has 5000 mi.es and was brand new you’d have a point. Read the above a guy whose been fixing trucks for years said odds are it’s more a tire issue than anything. My experience tends to agree with that or worn suspension components.

[Firemanram]

There’s already a lawsuit filed as you can read it on a Facebook page, Ford ‘death wobble’! There’s hundreds of people on there. There was a post about a fix made by Carli and it’s a 2-4* caster for both sides.

[turk123]

OK, guys, it's not a suspension problem (loose parts) unless the two dealers I went to lied to me and didn't check anything. I also had an alignment with just a very slight adjustment to the toe-in.

After asking the last dealer to check the tires, they just looked at them and said they are not wearing improperly. They did not check the balance.

My next recourse is to follow Ford's suggestion to have the newest designed steering stabilizer shock installed. That is 30 days away. If that does not fix the issue I will buy new tires. All of this has to be done if I am to go back on or take any action with Ford for this repair. Any of the money I put into this will go toward guaranteeing my vehicle is ready for the last fix, buying a Silverado.

Silverado's have independent front suspension.

[GCinSC2]

Turk

How about while waiting for parts you find a hunter road force balancer at a tire shop and ask for the full diagnosis on the tires.

Good luck

Gary

[tjdonahoe]

My fords or dodge..never a problem...I run sup er singles on the front of my Kw....when one or both of these tires has a problem .you can feel it in the steering whee....a vibration or the wheel rocks back and forth...one time the dealer told me it was the 2 lane roads I was running...next day I went on an interstate trip..it was bad...told the tire shop pull them off..1 needed 33 ozs of weight...we laughed...time for new ones...the factory rep showed up a few days later..he showed me where they were comming apart...50 percent...returned...I run the steer 40-70,000 miles...small wear or cupping..they are gone...never in millions of miles have I blown a steer tire...I couldn’t afford it...it is my life..

[turk123]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Turk

How about while waiting for parts you find a hunter road force balancer at a tire shop and ask for the full diagnosis on the tires.

Good luck

Gary

Great Idea! I found a place in mountainview CA. http://www.customalignment.com/equipment.htm

They have that equipment. They also will shave your tires down to make them perfectly round! I can't wait to see how expensive.

[crispyboy]

You may also consider some Centamatic wheel balancers for your truck. I have these on my truck along with an alignment for zero toe in, 4 degrees castor and the tires are wearing perfectly across the tread and steers straight down the road. A previous poster talked about problems with tires - there may be something to this especially since you claimed your tires are not wearing properly. I have heard anecdotal evidence about certain BF Goodrich tires do have enough sidewall strength for diesel trucks and lead to front end issues. What is on your truck?
I got to thinking the other day I have experienced death wobble 2x in my life. Once when I was a kid riding in a 1974 CJ-5 with oversized tires. We put normal tires back on and never had the problem again. We have owned this Jeep since 1982. Another time on a Honda 750 Nighthawk motorcycle at 90 mph - talk about needing to change my shorts afterwards........

[BDowse]

I have a 2012 F250 Super Duty Crew Cab 4X4 with 6.7 Diesel. I have experienced the death wobble on two occasioins. First was at 41,000 miles, I had all 4 tires replaced and Ford Quicklane replaced the drag link under warranty (with my $100 deductable) It happend again last week at 88,900 miles. I had the two front tires repalced (I had already replaced the two rear ones due to a puncture in the sidewall which could not be repaired). The Ford garage test drove and checked all the alignments which seemed within tolerance.
I have travled most all states west of the Mississippi pulling our 27 FC FB, never had a problem with death wobble pulling the trailer. Both times were witout the Airstream thankfully.. Here's the rub: In traveling all these nearly 89,000 miles and having the death wobble attack twice, both happened within 5 miles of my home in the same exact spot; on an overpass elevated above the roadway I was transitioning to. Both times it was because I was in a curve on the overpass and hit the steel expansion joint. I surmise it was a combination of factors; tires with over 40,000 on them although plenty of tread and wearing evenly (rotated every 5.000 miles with regular service), the truck was in a curve, the tires probably momentarily left the solid roadway when hitting the steel expansion joint. Both times I was traveling about 65 MPH, again, not towing.
The two excuses I have heard from the Ford service center; the coil springs exerbate the problem but deliver a smoother ride (most of the time), secondly when the tires get down to around 5/32 of an inch (wherever they are measured by the technician) the problem seems to occur more often.
So I will try to change the tires at around 40.000 for the balance of our relation ship (me and the truck). It is cheaper than trading for a GM product or Dodge. To me, this his backs up Bayou's explanation above about harmonics and a myriad of contributing factors.
My issue is that Ford chooses to ignore the problem and not fix it. You would think they would have a recall but somebody will probably have to die first or kill a few others in an accident before they will address it. Remember the Ford Explorer problem with Firestones a few years back? Had to get pretty nasty before they would admit to the problem and try to fix it.
So, keep good records, may come in handy when a Class Action Lawsuit is initiated. Until then, be careful out there. Once it happens to you the next time will be less of a shock..

[Life is a Highway]

We have had the same problems on a new 2019. The fix is part Ford and Part aftermarket. In fact our trip this fall was / dampened with our vehicle out of service for 4 days. Dealer was great it was the waiting for parts not so great.

The Ford fix is first a new Ford ft steering stabilizer shock. There are aftermarket shocks that will work but not covered under a warranty.

Then the real fix came from the Ford field rep who got involved with the dealership techs. The infield TSB is to reduce the factory aggressive caster angles. From the factory ours was positive 4+ degrees pushing 5. While this can give you great directional stability at high speeds it does force a lot of SHOCK back into the ft end.

We had to have new ft end bushings shipped in to reduce the caster angle while maintaining specs for camber and caster more negative down to +3 degrees. This is NOT a fun or easy job for the techs.

The front end must also be checked for loose control rod bushings or and other components. Tires and Tire balance is also verified as being OK. I run 60 lbs ft and 65 lbs rear.

The wheel will still nibble a very very slight amount going over a series of bumps however no Death Wobble.

[turk123]

Originally Posted by Life is a Highway

We have had the same problems on a new 2019. The fix is part Ford and Part aftermarket. In fact our trip this fall was / dampened with our vehicle out of service for 4 days. Dealer was great it was the waiting for parts not so great.

The Ford fix is first a new Ford ft steering stabilizer shock. There are aftermarket shocks that will work but not covered under a warranty.

Then the real fix came from the Ford field rep who got involved with the dealership techs. The infield TSB is to reduce the factory aggressive caster angles. From the factory ours was positive 4+ degrees pushing 5. While this can give you great directional stability at high speeds it does force a lot of SHOCK back into the ft end.

We had to have new ft end bushings shipped in to reduce the caster angle while maintaining specs for camber and caster more negative down to +3 degrees. This is NOT a fun or easy job for the techs.

The front end must also be checked for loose control rod bushings or and other components. Tires and Tire balance is also verified as being OK. I run 60 lbs ft and 65 lbs rear.

The wheel will still nibble a very very slight amount going over a series asof bumps however no Death Wobble.

Here we go again!

One guy says to increase the caster angle and now you say to reduce the caster. That is the problem. It seems that this configuration that Ford has created is not solvable by one solution. It is individually a huge headache as each vehicle seems to be different. Ford cannot possibly fix this with the new shock. I'm gonna take this to the alignment shop for a second opinion.

[SouthForkAS]

Originally Posted by turk123

Mine is a 4 x 4. I will have them look at the alignment. That is a good suggestion. We will look at the tires also. They have 43,000 miles on them but are not worn unevenly. The 2017 year is when they raised the truck about 3 inches to please the trucker boys. I'm not a fan.

First look at the tires and the lift.
Looks are deceiving for hi mileage tires. put new ones on the front and your wobble will probably disappear.
If not then:
Suspension lift
This "death wobble" is common for lifted Jeeps of all vintages and other lifted vehicles.
Also sounds like the lift kit is wearing out or you've killed you ball joints: The list gets long, just make sure every bit of the suspension is tight and proper.
But start with the tires first.

[tbashin]

Just happened to me last week. 19k mikes on a 2018 F350 FX4. Took it in and Ford put an aftermarket stabilizer on Wednesday and will call me when the Ford backordered stabilizer is available. Took it home Thursday and Friday it happened again twice on a 80 mile trip so the stabilizdis didn’t help. Once at 75 mph and once at 55mph. Dammit. FIRS! The fight is on

[lsbrodsky]

I have no skin in this game since I have never owned a MOPAR or FORD vehicle, but after 7000+ views on this thread and all of the activity on truck forums, why is there no major action against FORD? Corvair took a bigger hit for less of a problem, especially in today's consumer sensitive environment. I just cannot believe that there are all of these owners waiting for it to happen to them or happen again after a few more years or thousands of miles.
After following this thread I can only conclude that there is no one fix for this. A lot of things have been tried, some have worked but maybe not permanently. Sure fits the Einstein definition of insanity...
Larry