Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-29-2019, 06:07 PM   #141
Master of Universe
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,357
tj, 140,000 miles is pretty good on a front end, but our Tundra is at 136,000. Not a heavy duty or solid axle vehicle, but things can work for a long time if built right. Some claim Ford has a history of bringing out vehicles before they are ready. That might have been true when this front end was designed, but that was many years ago and it still isn't fixed. It sounds like Ford's engineers have jury rigged a bad system to make it perform better, but that is not a real fix.

I appreciate Bob's consternation about how fledgling mechanics can't diagnose anymore. Even before code readers, decades ago I sometimes told the mechanics during warranty repairs what was wrong, they disagreed, they were wrong, I was right. This also happens with subcontractors who I have hired for our house. Why should an amateur be able to do better than a "professional"? Of course, when there was room to work on a car, it was a lot easier to diagnose because cars were simple. I remember doing an alignment on an old Dodge truck with a broom handle and a wrench. I wouldn't chance it now.

Computer chips are everywhere and they are beyond my ability, but I still can narrow things down most of the time. I too have been concerned with attacks on the electronics rendering all modern cars as useless, but would you really want to ride around in a 1955 car? Remember the play in the steering before rack and pinion? Terrible gas mileage? Brake jobs and clutch jobs frequently? Starting them when it was cold or very damp? Poor heaters and no A/C? Do you remember how to raise and lower a window by hand? Not only are cars and trucks safer, handle better, stop and start better, but they last a lot longer. We just bought a 2017 Subaru loaded with toys we have never had before because of our love for trucks, but it sure is more comfortable, responsive and safe. I open the hood and am somewhat daunted by all the stuff—remember when American cars were wall to wall metal under the hood, but foreign cars were relatively simple and easier to work on? The owner's manual which goes on for 5 or 6 hundred pages plus a 300 page entertainment system book, is written for simpletons and that makes it hard to understand for the rest of us.

I suppose you could find an old Dodge former army truck and transplant the front end to your Ford. I wouldn't drive it over 35 though and be sure to carry a broom handle with you.
__________________
Gene

The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2019, 07:54 PM   #142
Rivet Master
 
ITSNO60's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Tucson , AZ
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsbrodsky View Post
My wife thinks we should get a car of that era to avoid any problems when we are hit with an EMP and all of the modern electronics fry....
Larry
Up until last December we had such a car, 1987 Mercedes 300D. Great car and still on the road after 33 years. Classic design that was light years ahead of it's time and still looks good today, and classic luxury to boot with a long driving range. Can also run on soybean oil should the infrastructure collapse.

I reluctantly let her go after buying a VW TDI which I love, no room to keep over 4 vehicles.
__________________
Brian
ITSNO60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 08:08 PM   #143
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,316
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk123 View Post
At 20,000 miles I experienced a death wobble in my 2017 Ford F-250. It was quite frightening but I was able to slow down and pull over. I had to go below 20 mph for it to stop. That was several years ago and I was not pulling a trailer. Ford replaced the front stabilizer shock and all was well.

We limped into the town and found Smith Ford.

"Ya we know all about the death wobble on those trucks (250 & 350) and we do not have the shock to fix it", the service manager told me. "Ford has a big problem with that. I have a customer that has had the shock replaced and it still does it!", he said. We can't even get the shock as it is such a problem that Ford is back-ordered for over a month."

Any suggestions anyone has about what could be wrong would be appreciated. This thing is dangerous.
Turk, I stumbled across a YouTube video about a 2019 Ford F250 Powerstroke with 60K miles and the Death Wobble.

The guy who fixed it brought up an interesting suggestion - one that BayouBiker alluded to - steering geometry. Specifically, he recommended increasing the caster to help with stability.

They also installed a pretty cool dual Bilstein shock steering stabilizer along with new brakes and replaced some worn steering components.

Watch the video and draw your own conclusions.
__________________
2019 27í Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 08:35 PM   #144
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Highlands Ranch , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 203
I watched that video after it was posted on the ford-trucks.com forum. The downside of that video is that they did a number of "solutions" so we don't know which change was _the_ solution. Maybe it was a combination of two things. But we don't really know.
HRTKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 10:17 PM   #145
Rivet Master
 
turk123's Avatar

 
2019 30' Classic
Canfield , Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,503
Images: 1
My death wobble seems to be solved. How? By replacing all the things capable of causing this issue.

I replaced all the tires and had them balanced with a load balancing hunter machine. I replace three ball joints (with Moog) and a stabilizer bar and track bar. I replaced the stabilizer shock with Ford's new solution, third-generation shock. I had the alignment checked and adjusted with increased camber. Very little here.

The cost was $2600 and it all seems to work.

There does not seem to be one item that causes the death wobble, especially in my case. I was told by Custom alignment that adding a duel stabilizer shock will do nothing to help rid the truck from wobble and might increase the chance of it happening. Two shocks upfront will cause the steering to drift back and forth and the higher resistance will actually creat the wobble. Don't do it.

Custom alignment has added, at the request of customers, duel Fox shocks up front and ultimately had to take them off for the poor performance and drifting back and forth on the road. Not good.

Someone suggested I take my Ford to an alignment specialist to solve this problem instead of a Ford dealer. He was right. Ford knows nothing about solving this problem and in fact, two dealers missed the fact that three of my ball joints were bad. Really bad.
__________________
x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\101970\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\/x\x/x\x/x
Tom & Doty
2019 Airstream Classic 30 Twin


Link to our shared album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/wACfGg1KcroVLP5m6
turk123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 05:08 AM   #146
Rivet Master
 
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor , New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,551
Thank you for an excellent update to an important thread!

Happy Trails . . . and come on Summer!

Peter
OTRA15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 05:41 PM   #147
Rivet Master
 
billrector's Avatar
 
2017 27' Flying Cloud
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 756
My 2017 F-250 with 28k miles got the death wobble the other day. I already had an appointment to fix my 3rd recall, the tailgate that will drop on its own. Ford said the steering stabilizer was bad and replaced it. I also took it n for an alignment. Seems really solid right now. Iíve also read that the track bar can cause the problem. Iíll likely replace that with a 3rd part product in the future.
billrector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 07:16 PM   #148
Rivet Master
 
turk123's Avatar

 
2019 30' Classic
Canfield , Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,503
Images: 1
The first thing I would do is take it to an alignment specialist. The Ford bushings are surrounded by rubber. That is the weak link. They crack as mine did. Your Ford garage will amazingly not find this issue! The two Ford dealers that looked at mine did not find the problem of three joints that you could shake and clearly see they were loose.

I blame it on not having mechanics anymore. Just technicians that follow a manual with no interest in getting to the root of the problem.

Ford corporate is even worse.
__________________
x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\101970\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\/x\x/x\x/x
Tom & Doty
2019 Airstream Classic 30 Twin


Link to our shared album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/wACfGg1KcroVLP5m6
turk123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 07:54 PM   #149
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,316
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk123 View Post
T

I blame it on not having mechanics anymore. Just technicians that follow a manual with no interest in getting to the root of the problem.

Ford corporate is even worse.
Turk123, I think you're on to something. I stated my career in GM garages and eventually became NSE Certified. I moved on to manufacturing positions but kept in touch with the guys in the shop.

While picking up parts one day at the dealer, one of the old timers said "be glad you got out when you did, they've turned us into nothing more than parts changers". He was clearly frustrated.

Another contributing factor is things last longer (in general) so there's less time to gain experience. Even when I was in the trade, one guy in the shop did all the front end and transmission work. That meant nobody else got experience. I ended up with electrical problems, partially because no one else wanted to work on it (didn't pay enough book-hours). That turned out to be an advantage because I learned a lot.

Back to your point, Alignment Specialist see stuff like this every day while dealer mechanics see it infrequently. Best decision you could have made.
__________________
2019 27í Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 07:53 AM   #150
Rivet Master
 
gypsydad's Avatar

 
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Georgetown (winter)Thayne (summer) , Texas & Wyoming
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by billrector View Post
My 2017 F-250 with 28k miles got the death wobble the other day. I already had an appointment to fix my 3rd recall, the tailgate that will drop on its own. Ford said the steering stabilizer was bad and replaced it. I also took it n for an alignment. Seems really solid right now. Iíve also read that the track bar can cause the problem. Iíll likely replace that with a 3rd part product in the future.
80K miles now on my 2017 F250 6.7L 4x4; knock on wood...no wobble yet, and OEM shocks still working fine without leaking. I appreciate the updates here on this thread and when I take mine in for next oil change, I will make sure the service manager has his experts look at the steering stabilizer.

As for the tailgate issue, when I finally got Ford to admit this was a problem last year, they did pick up the entire tab. Guess what; went thru the car wash the couple weeks ago, and shazaaammmm it opened again when I started the truck! Have gone thru car wash a couple times since and no issues.
__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road!
2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, 6.7L, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer-Star Valley Ranch RV Resort (Thayne, WY); Winter-Sun City (Georgetown,TX)
gypsydad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 08:06 AM   #151
Site Team
 
GCinSC2's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,093
Gypsydad,

I watched the video it popped up in YT feed and almost posted it but it already was posted.

Watch the video and look at the first diagnostic they did. Wheels on ground, engine off, rock steering wheel and look at all of the joints looking for slop. Basic stuff. If it was me I would have asked for slightly quicker rocking to see the slop easier.

It likely takes a specialist alignment shop to put it all together, but the first test was basic driveway inspection.

Gary
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook. BMV-712
GCinSC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 03:22 PM   #152
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Highlands Ranch , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
80K miles now on my 2017 F250 6.7L 4x4; knock on wood...no wobble yet, and OEM shocks still working fine without leaking. I appreciate the updates here on this thread and when I take mine in for next oil change, I will make sure the service manager has his experts look at the steering stabilizer.

As for the tailgate issue, when I finally got Ford to admit this was a problem last year, they did pick up the entire tab. Guess what; went thru the car wash the couple weeks ago, and shazaaammmm it opened again when I started the truck! Have gone thru car wash a couple times since and no issues.
I drove 250 miles today in my 2017. It's smooth as glass on good roads. No wobble.

For the tailgate, did you get the recall done? This is a lot more involved than shooting a bunch of dielectric grease in the connectors. So far, my DIY job of greasing all the connectors has worked well, but I'm still going to take my truck in for the recall.
HRTKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 08:52 PM   #153
Rivet Master
 
KK4YZ's Avatar
 
2020 28' Flying Cloud
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Hiawassee , Georgia
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRTKD View Post
I drove 250 miles today in my 2017. It's smooth as glass on good roads. No wobble.

For the tailgate, did you get the recall done? This is a lot more involved than shooting a bunch of dielectric grease in the connectors. So far, my DIY job of greasing all the connectors has worked well, but I'm still going to take my truck in for the recall.
I took my 2019 in for that recall. They changed out a wiring harness and the switch from what I could see. So far so good.
KK4YZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 08:37 AM   #154
Rivet Master
 
gypsydad's Avatar

 
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Georgetown (winter)Thayne (summer) , Texas & Wyoming
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRTKD View Post
I drove 250 miles today in my 2017. It's smooth as glass on good roads. No wobble.

For the tailgate, did you get the recall done? This is a lot more involved than shooting a bunch of dielectric grease in the connectors. So far, my DIY job of greasing all the connectors has worked well, but I'm still going to take my truck in for the recall.
When I first took mine in December of 2018, they denied it was Ford issue. Wanted me to pay $2K of the $8K bill to replace the harness. Month later, they admitted they had several complaints and Ford would pick up entire bill. Told me they had to remove the bed and cab to get to the harness, and replace the entire tale gate assembly with a new one. Seemed pretty involved for just a harness issue and a slight dent in my tailgate where it hit my propane bottles when I was turning and it had opened. I am watching now...don't like loosing my truck to the waiting line for 2-3 weeks for something like this.
__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road!
2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, 6.7L, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer-Star Valley Ranch RV Resort (Thayne, WY); Winter-Sun City (Georgetown,TX)
gypsydad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 09:19 AM   #155
Firedog1
 
Firedog1's Avatar
 
2018 30' Classic
Woodbridge Connecticut & , Venice Florida
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
When I first took mine in December of 2018, they denied it was Ford issue. Wanted me to pay $2K of the $8K bill to replace the harness. Month later, they admitted they had several complaints and Ford would pick up entire bill. Told me they had to remove the bed and cab to get to the harness, and replace the entire tale gate assembly with a new one. Seemed pretty involved for just a harness issue and a slight dent in my tailgate where it hit my propane bottles when I was turning and it had opened. I am watching now...don't like loosing my truck to the waiting line for 2-3 weeks for something like this.


Iíve given up on my Ford. Wobble started at 58K miles. Replaced everything. Still a problem. Trading in for 2020 GMC 3500 Denali
__________________
Russ and Lisa
2018 Classic 30
2020 GMC Sierra 3500HD Denali Diesel 4x4
Sold but not forgotten: 2005 Classic 25 Limited
2015 Classic 30 RB
Firedog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 09:48 AM   #156
Rivet Master
 
turk123's Avatar

 
2019 30' Classic
Canfield , Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,503
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firedog1 View Post
Iíve given up on my Ford. Wobble started at 58K miles. Replaced everything. Still a problem. Trading in for 2020 GMC 3500 Denali
That was my approach also, but I gave it one more try without Ford's help. The GMC has an independent front suspension instead of the straight axel and cannot have this problem.

Of course, the 2020 GMC and some new owners had electronics problems right out of the gate!
__________________
x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\101970\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\/x\x/x\x/x
Tom & Doty
2019 Airstream Classic 30 Twin


Link to our shared album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/wACfGg1KcroVLP5m6
turk123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 03:50 PM   #157
Rivet Master
 
billrector's Avatar
 
2017 27' Flying Cloud
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by KK4YZ View Post
I took my 2019 in for that recall. They changed out a wiring harness and the switch from what I could see. So far so good.


Same here!
billrector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 08:32 AM   #158
4 Rivet Member
 
2016 30' Classic
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 324
Very disappointing - although not surprising - that Ford didn't proactively contact you and other like owners once they found they had a widespread problem. Particularly with something called a 'death wobble'! Seems they would have legal liability if an accident or death occured.
dhroberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 08:45 AM   #159
Rivet Master
 
AirMiles's Avatar
 
2018 27' Globetrotter
Apollo Beach , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,401
My F250 is in the shop right now. Doing the "death wobble" cure of new stabilizer shock, adding caster shims for increased caster with my 1.5" front level, alignment, tire rotation, fixing the tailgate recall, and replacing the whole electric computer system (what I was told). My truck has intermittent electrical problems where sometimes the right turn signal doesn't work, sometimes the dash warning messages go crazy blinking trailer not charging and other warnings even though no trailer is attached. And one of my Airstream's LED running lights stays partially lit. Its been in the shop eight days and counting . . . I'm hoping to see improvement on many fronts with these repairs!
__________________
2021 Northern-Lite 10-2 & F350 DRW PSD, 380W Solar/Victron/600A BattleBorn
0 nights 0 miles
Sold: 2018 GT27Q, 74 nights 12,777 miles
Sold: 2017 FC25FB, 316 nights 40,150 miles
Sold: 2013 Casita SD17 89 nights 16,200 miles
AirMiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 08:51 AM   #160
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Highlands Ranch , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 203
Just for giggles I created a video titled "Hitler's F-250 Gets Death Wobble". It uses a short segment of the movie where Hitler is in his bunker, ranting at his staff. Due to using a meme generator, the video cannot be embedded. So you have to actually click on the link. Sorry.

https://www.captiongenerator.com/168...s-Death-Wobble
HRTKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
F250 "Death Wobble" ibordelon Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 60 01-27-2020 06:45 AM
Fords Death Wobble. Watch while you can HowieE Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 18 02-13-2018 02:48 AM
Front end wobble during braking on steep grades jordandvm Brakes & Brake Controllers 23 10-29-2009 08:00 AM
toilet wobble Frank's Trailer Works Sinks, Showers & Toilets 17 09-07-2007 06:07 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.