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Old 12-09-2019, 06:36 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by turk123 View Post
. . .
The dealer here did a full inspection and alignment on the truck. The only thing out was the toe-in and that actually was within spec. They said the only thing left if getting the stabilizer shock. 3-4 weeks out.
. . .
On a truck with 42,000 miles +/-, especially a 4x4 driven in muddy and dusty conditions, there is bound to be discernible wear and "sloppy-ness" in many of the front end's important component "links in the chain" IMO. Those worn parts may have passed muster -- individually -- on Ford's quality control scale, but I would wage that a number of worn parts, all vibrating harmonically when the Death Wobble starts, just increase the wobble.

The first Death Wobble was at 20,000 miles, right? -- and not before that when all the parts were new?



There is the proof -- new parts == no Death Wobble!

I would get prepared to insist on a completely new front end, complete with a guaranty for 100,000 miles.

Ford has a design defect, if the front end can only go for 20,000 miles, without replacing all the parts. Too many crucial tolerances which all fail in a harmonic disaster.

I would search all the NHTSA links and cases I posted earlier. I'll bet some folks got completely new front ends [IMO].

Instead of getting a new front end, you might also consider taking the money that they offer you [see PS], and switching brands.

Good luck,

Peter

PS -- With a terrible track record by Ford on this -- well documented in many cases -- a good attorney should be able to get you some serious damages for this IMO.

PS2 -- You might insist that the dealer put the truck on a dynamometer to replicate what happens at high speeds. There must be some measurable harmonic vibrations occurring before the wobble becomes death-like IMO.
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Old 12-09-2019, 08:32 PM   #42
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There is so much misinformation on the internet that I've become frustrated. One guy will say replace the tires, the next will say the strut, and then its the ball joints, and on and on. The dealers are just as bad. They say the problem is the stabilizer shock. Many have had the shock replaced and it has happened again. Then it's the caster or the toe-in and on and on.

What this tells me is Ford has not solved this issue. Sad.
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Old 12-09-2019, 11:53 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by turk123 View Post
There is so much misinformation on the internet that I've become frustrated. One guy will say replace the tires, the next will say the strut, and then its the ball joints, and on and on. The dealers are just as bad. They say the problem is the stabilizer shock. Many have had the shock replaced and it has happened again. Then it's the caster or the toe-in and on and on.

What this tells me is Ford has not solved this issue. Sad.
Hi, it only takes one loose or worn part with insuficient toe setting to cause this. The shock only trys to dampen things, not a fix.
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Old 12-10-2019, 04:17 AM   #44
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Hi Andy



I have a proPride. 4x4 . 35" tires - 20" wheels. I've done scale weights.



It has pulled fine for many thousands of miles. I'm at 42,000 miles. The last shock gave out at 20,000.

I think most of these have been mentioned but this is what we have had luck with on Ford class “A” chassis.

Move the rear tires to the front axle just to see if it is a tire issue.
Lower your front tires to 55 PSI this lets the tires absorb more road shock so not as many vibrations are transferred to the suspension. You have massive unsprung weight so this makes more difference than you might expect.

Add 1/8” of additional toe in. This puts some pressure on the components that have play in them.

Check the steering box for play. Huge issue on Ford HD’s in the past.

Check all bushings.

Likely best to find a great front end guy in a small shop and just pay to have it looked at. You can battle with ford later if you want. If you ask a local motorhome dealer who seems to care about service who they send Ford chassis to for steering issues it might help you find the right guy.

The other alternative is to see what deal they can make you on an F150 which has independent front suspension. You can get a great diesel in it now with the 10 Speed.

Andy
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Old 12-10-2019, 09:37 AM   #45
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Thumbs up

Great suggestions IMO, Andy.

Peter
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Old 12-10-2019, 10:30 AM   #46
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Great suggestions IMO, Andy.

Peter
I agree. Andy has been working on suspension issues for a very long time and comes up with innovative ideas that work.
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Old 12-10-2019, 04:39 PM   #47
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Just saw this on my news feed:

The Biggest Complaint About America’s Most Popular Cars

1. Ford F-Series

> Most common complaint: Steering (98 complaints)
> Total complaints 180
> 2019 sales (through Q3): 662,574
> Vehicle type: Full-size pickup
There have been 180 total complaints regarding the 2019 Ford F-Series line of trucks. Even though the F-150 is far and away the most popular of these trucks (and the most popular among all other vehicles in America, for that matter) the F-250 actually has had more complaints registered against it, with more than 100. Many drivers have complained that they have an issue controlling the steering wheel of the F-250, especially at high speeds.

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Old 12-10-2019, 05:01 PM   #48
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Had this problem on numerous Jeep Wranglers I have owned. Get a front end alignment, install new aftermarket, HIGH QUALITY, steering stabilizer shock, balance front tires, and all should be good for 50,000 miles. Then repeat!!
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:32 AM   #49
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About 4:30 this morning I thought of this thread which I guess says how sad my life is.

About 25 years ago we were going to Frankenmuth Michigan with some friends for the weekend. We were taking the Airstream and they were staying in a hotel. The week we were going we had a 1983 310 Motorhome traded in that was clean but had 80,000 miles on it. I said instead of taking two cars we can all go in the motorhome.

Frankenmuth is about 120 Miles due west on the 402 and I 69 then 20 miles north. On the way there the wind was very strong from the South. A strong cross wind and everything was fine. When we headed home after the weekend the wind was out of the West so a straight tail wind. As soon as we headed East the motorhome went into a speed wobble at anything over 35 MPH. I got off the interstate onto the two lane road so I would be out of the way. Turns out the 2 lone had a high crown I could run 50 again. So limped it home took it into the shop and everything in the front end was shot and loose. So lucky we did not have a bigger problem.

The thing is when we had the crosswind it was fine so likely the steering wheel pressure to combat the crosswind was enough to tighten up all the play everywhere. This would have been helped by the looong 217" wheel base 310's had.

Since you have a ProPride you could try relaxing one torsion bar almost completely and tightening the other one a few extra turns. This will in effect wedge the truck causing it to pull to one side slightly which may eliminate the wobble until you can get it fixed.

Just a thought.

Andy
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:53 AM   #50
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Yesterday we headed down Route 10 connected with route 5 and headed into Bakersfield. The mountain pass (4000 ft) north of Santa Clara was very steep but with truck lanes posted at 35 mph, it gave me a chance to keep it very slow. The highest speed on the past for me was 45 mph.

The whole trip was long but on good roads and 54 mph. I only had two incidents that I caught by feel before it went into a full-blown wobble. I felt safe on the 3,4 and sometimes 6 lane roads.

Ford customer support finally called yesterday morning and I ask if the part can be overnighted to the dealer in town. "Oh, I don't have the ability to do that" was her response. Eight other questions I followed up with had the same response. So basically Ford will do nothing out of the ordinary to help their customers. The call was civil but unfruitful. I did find out that the newer shock I am waiting for has been discontinued for a third shock that has just been "approved" for the fix. The shortage of steering stabilizer shocks is because the manufacturer has just finished making the first batch only a few days ago.

They will be shipping that batch today. I was told by the dealer 1 to 2 weeks if they get enough to cover the other customers.

Since the dealer followed all the procedures in checking out my truck, and he found nothing left to fix but the shock, I ask the Ford rep that if this new shock does not fix my problem, will Ford do a buyback? She said that is an option they actually would consider. Interesting.

I changed my route today that adds many miles to the trip but avoids Pacheco pass. Some say it is so unlucky to travel and it is haunted. At one time it was the most dangerous passes for accidents in the state. It doesn't look that bad, but I'm taking no chances!
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:00 AM   #51
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In a previous life (30 years ago), I used to call on the engineering offices of Ford Light Truck, and one of the suspension guys there told me that excessive caster would cause solid axle vehicles to develop an oscillation, but since caster also helped return the steering wheel to straight ahead, it was difficult to get this right.

I suspect there is a lot more to this, and that given the modeling capability at Ford and other vehicle manufacturers, that there isn't a good solution that doesn't involve replacing worn components and adding steering stabilizers.
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Old 12-11-2019, 10:57 AM   #52
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I brought my 2016 F350 4x4 Diesel to the local Ford Dealership. I noticed the front U-Joints had a little 'color' in the dust and wanted to have them checked out, after I discovered the cost to pull the unit out just to replace U Joints.

The guy writing the ticket... did not know what a U Joint was. I showed him where it was located, turned the wheels so both could be seen. "Look OK. Not an issue."

I asked if they could grease the U Joints, since I was standing there with the lube shop next door. "U Joints do not have grease fittings, any more. The oil shop does not even have the tool, but some mechanics might... you are #14 in line."

He did not know the front U Joints had a grease fitting. I showed it to him.

I stopped in town, bought what I needed and did them myself, after cleaning the dirt that was attracted to the metal at the car wash. Wiped them down and sprayed Silicone onto them. (My neighbor's Bronco had heavy rust in that area and encrusted dirt as the culprit.)

Now my U Joints are greased. And Ford??? What kind of people do they hire to check out your vehicle for.... warranty work? I may be old... but learned something over the years. A music or history PhD is not enough, you know.
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:16 PM   #53
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Death Wobble

I have 76K miles on mine, and have not experienced the "death wobble" so far. I looked it up and saw this Lemon Law post below with a good amount of disappointing/scary history from owners: https://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/f...-death-wobble/

I finally got Ford to replace/repair my tailgate opening issue early this year, but that took 4 months before Ford agreed to pick up the entire tab. I remember asking Ford early on, what would they do if I experienced my tailgate opening on the freeway and something fell out and caused an accident; was told they "do not deal in hypothetical s!" Kind of says it all, right?

They likely don't know whats causing the problems of the death wobble, and as I mention, I am glad I have not had it yet. lucky I guess, so far.. It does give me pause about keeping my F250 vs moving to another 3/4T GM or RAM diesel... Thanks for sharing your experiences...if Andy or someone else can offer the cause, rather than lowering tire psi I would love to hear it.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:16 PM   #54
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Andy, perhaps your "sad life" would be cured by moving to a more exciting place like the Alberta oil fields or some other mining town. London, Ontario, seems pretty tame to me and because I have been all over Canada, but not London, I am fully uninformed.

Ray, I have had to educate service writers more than once. I have even had to educate service managers. I go in with a written account of my problem and that is hard for them to screw up rather than what I tell them and they don't listen to. I am waiting for one to tell me to unplug the truck for 30 seconds....
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:18 AM   #55
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FWIW, (as others have said) Dodge/Rams are known to experience “death wobble” too (although I have never experienced it).
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:29 AM   #56
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after-market

Quote:
Originally Posted by turk123 View Post
There is so much misinformation on the internet that I've become frustrated. One guy will say replace the tires, the next will say the strut, and then its the ball joints, and on and on. The dealers are just as bad. They say the problem is the stabilizer shock. Many have had the shock replaced and it has happened again. Then it's the caster or the toe-in and on and on.

What this tells me is Ford has not solved this issue. Sad.
Interesting there isn't a solution in the after market suspension Ford truck parts. Usually someone comes up with a solution. You know, that is interesting that you mentioned in a earlier post Ford has had more of these issues since they lifted the truck a bit.
Could be. Jeep wranglers have the death wobble if lifted and have worn 'trackbar' bushings. See if your bushings on the trackbar have any play whatsoever.
Have them replace it. Its fixed many a lifted Jeep
For your steering stabilizer( shock) see if there is a good 'Bilstein' or 'Old man Emu' replacement ? That may help you. sometimes you just have to fix things yourself.
Best of luck on resolving !
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Old 12-12-2019, 08:53 AM   #57
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I believe I said earlier I talked to the service manager and he had his guys look at all the suspension parts. I gave him specific instructions that if they showed the slightest play, to go ahead and replace them. They also did an alignment.

They spent 2 1/2 hours looking at it and doing the alignment and looking it over. They only charged me for the alignment. $89.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:03 AM   #58
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Yesterday we made the trip from Bakersfield to Coyote RV south of San Jose over 400 miles. 55-54 mph and very nice roads all the way. We swung up to Livermore to avoid the "dreaded" pass and we had an uneventful trip to the campground. We made it.

I will reach out to a local dealer to see if they have or are getting the shock. I might get lucky!
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:50 AM   #59
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You didn't say which way the alignment was slightly off (but still in the +/- range of the specs.) If they they adjusted it to spec, I'd be feeling a bit better in the short term if I were you.

I suggested this earlier too but I'll repeat; Consider shifting some more weight to the front axle by adding a bit more tension on your weight distribution hitch. I swear that changing the geometry just a little bit can make all the difference because it shifts the natural frequencies, changes the dampening strength and adds more pre-load so that any worn components are less likely to transition between compression and tension when hitting bumps. Again these are no substitute for a functional steering stabilizer but it is better than doing nothing in my opinion...
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:20 AM   #60
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You didn't say which way the alignment was slightly off (but still in the +/- range of the specs.) If they they adjusted it to spec, I'd be feeling a bit better in the short term if I were you.

I suggested this earlier too but I'll repeat; Consider shifting some more weight to the front axle by adding a bit more tension on your weight distribution hitch. I swear that changing the geometry just a little bit can make all the difference because it shifts the natural frequencies, changes the dampening strength and adds more pre-load so that any worn components are less likely to transition between compression and tension when hitting bumps. Again these are no substitute for a functional steering stabilizer but it is better than doing nothing in my opinion...
My dealer said the toe was just on the outside of spec. He did bring it back.

I agree with the weight distribution theory. On the day of the first big wobbles, I had "lessoned" the weight from 6 to 5 1/2 on my scale. I believe that is what triggered the wobble, but, it was a failed shock (dealer said) that they attribute to the problem. That shock failed originally at 20,000 miles was replaced, and now at 42000 miles. Lessening the weight distribution may have increased the change of a wobble on an already failed shock.
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